Changes in the GAA - super thread

Bass Reeves · 23-07-2018 9:31am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More reason why we need GAA referees locked in a room for a few weeks.

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/monaghan-kerry-rule-gaa-169562

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Walsh had full control of the ball (he was carrying along the line) though and dropped it as he fell.

Just another rule were some consistency/knowledge would be good. In truth it was the difference between a 4 point lead and a draw.

lawred2 wrote: »

bad call then

Refree have being consistant on calling this as is across the years whether they are right or wrong.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Effectively you would be giving a free kick on goal for catching the ball once they come in range of the goal.
I don't think that would aid the game at all to be honest.

No you have the option with a mark of playing on so if the goal chance si on you go for it. If you are sorrounded by players you get your mark.

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2018 9:37am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Refree have being consistant on calling this as is across the years whether they are right or wrong.

It isn't consistent, Comer did it and the ref let it go.

No you have the option with a mark of playing on so if the goal chance si on you go for it. If you are sorrounded by players you get your mark.

And within range of goal he has the option of a free kick without being tackled.
You are penalising the other team for not catching it.

intellectual dosser · 03-08-2018 3:37pm

Interesting thread. No surprises that all proposed changes focus on football. With the incredible matches we've had this summer in hurling versus the very forgettable football offering, it's easy to see why people are giving the big ball a hammering, but how come so many seem to only be aware of this now? As someone not from a hurling stronghold, its a basic fact to me that hurling has always been a far superior sport for viewing quality. Just because we've had a summer of particular contrast doesnt mean we need to panic about the state of football.

The GAA is allowing itself to become a victim of the modern world where everything must entertain at all costs. Everyone nowadays has short attention spans, quickly becoming bored of something if its not of world class quality. As a result changes are being made at a rapid rate. Black cards, the mark, super 8s have all been thrown at the 'problem', and a lot of posters here seem to think the rules of the game should be significantly adjusted to make the game more asthetically pleasing. It won't work, it will only compound things. I think I've previously used the analogy on Boards of Father Ted finding a dent in the car, and thinking he can buff it out he goes at it delicately with the hammer, and ends up with a write off.

All sports evolve, we just need to allow them to do so. I am hopeful that the next congress will have the courage to not make further changes to rules. I would scrap the Super 8s, they don't solve any of the real problems facing the GAA, and it worsens the problems of player welfare and the gulf in quality across the inter county setup. It was a completely unnecessary change.

For the sake of adding something to the thread; one change I would advocate is a restriction on throw in times depending on how far a team and their supporters have to travel. For example Kildare supporters will be lucky to be leaving Killarney by 9pm this Saturday, not easy if you're bringing a family of young kids. Games need to easier to attend.

The Lost Sheep · 03-08-2018 3:50pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Interesting thread. No surprises that all proposed changes focus on football. With the incredible matches we've had this summer in hurling versus the very forgettable football offering, it's easy to see why people are giving the big ball a hammering, but how come so many seem to only be aware of this now? As someone not from a hurling stronghold, its a basic fact to me that hurling has always been a far superior sport for viewing quality. Just because we've had a summer of particular contrast doesnt mean we need to panic about the state of football.

The GAA is allowing itself to become a victim of the modern world where everything must entertain at all costs. Everyone nowadays has short attention spans, quickly becoming bored of something if its not of world class quality. As a result changes are being made at a rapid rate. Black cards, the mark, super 8s have all been thrown at the 'problem', and a lot of posters here seem to think the rules of the game should be significantly adjusted to make the game more asthetically pleasing. It won't work, it will only compound things. I think I've previously used the analogy on Boards of Father Ted finding a dent in the car, and thinking he can buff it out he goes at it delicately with the hammer, and ends up with a write off.

All sports evolve, we just need to allow them to do so. I am hopeful that the next congress will have the courage to not make further changes to rules. I would scrap the Super 8s, they don't solve any of the real problems facing the GAA, and it worsens the problems of player welfare and the gulf in quality across the inter county setup. It was a completely unnecessary change.

For the sake of adding something to the thread; one change I would advocate is a restriction on throw in times depending on how far a team and their supporters have to travel. For example Kildare supporters will be lucky to be leaving Killarney by 9pm this Saturday, not easy if you're bringing a family of young kids. Games need to easier to attend.

Many arent simply aware of issues in football now and have had issues for years.
I dont think a restriction on throw in times necessarily should be in place. Games shouldnt simply all be on in the early/mid afternoon.
If you scrap super 8s what do you go back to? The qualifiers as they were need to change. Gaelic needs something more than that

Niles Crane · 05-08-2018 4:54pm

It may be a small enough issue but it always looks terribly poor when you see a championship match being played with a ball that has the county's name or abbreviation on it.

Is it really that difficult to have 15-20 official match balls that the GAA themselves own that can be used for the match day in every single match like every other sport in the world has.

Niles Crane · 05-08-2018 5:04pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Interesting thread. No surprises that all proposed changes focus on football. With the incredible matches we've had this summer in hurling versus the very forgettable football offering, it's easy to see why people are giving the big ball a hammering, but how come so many seem to only be aware of this now? As someone not from a hurling stronghold, its a basic fact to me that hurling has always been a far superior sport for viewing quality. Just because we've had a summer of particular contrast doesnt mean we need to panic about the state of football.

The GAA is allowing itself to become a victim of the modern world where everything must entertain at all costs. Everyone nowadays has short attention spans, quickly becoming bored of something if its not of world class quality. As a result changes are being made at a rapid rate. Black cards, the mark, super 8s have all been thrown at the 'problem', and a lot of posters here seem to think the rules of the game should be significantly adjusted to make the game more asthetically pleasing. It won't work, it will only compound things. I think I've previously used the analogy on Boards of Father Ted finding a dent in the car, and thinking he can buff it out he goes at it delicately with the hammer, and ends up with a write off.

All sports evolve, we just need to allow them to do so. I am hopeful that the next congress will have the courage to not make further changes to rules. I would scrap the Super 8s, they don't solve any of the real problems facing the GAA, and it worsens the problems of player welfare and the gulf in quality across the inter county setup. It was a completely unnecessary change.

For the sake of adding something to the thread; one change I would advocate is a restriction on throw in times depending on how far a team and their supporters have to travel. For example Kildare supporters will be lucky to be leaving Killarney by 9pm this Saturday, not easy if you're bringing a family of young kids. Games need to easier to attend.

The GAA changes are not big enough and invariably end up like a lot of democratic changes where we end up with a camel where the original intent was to come up with a horse.

The mark for example was a good idea however it needed to go all the way and insist all kickouts must pass the 45 metre line, instead we got a half arsed measure.

The black card was another half arsed measure, cynical drag downs like Sean Cavanagh's which sparked the black card being introduced should be red card offence and more yellow cards should be handed out in general and eventually the players would learn.

If footballs problems were short term and only a phase then people wouldn't be complaining so much but the truth is we've had to put up with this overly defensive style of football being the default way of playing the game for over a decade now and things are not going to change unless teams decide to sacrifice winning in order to please the purists (which will never happen).Football in the 1990's early 2000's was when it was at it's best as you had a nice mix of styles in the game and teams played in a positive fashion.

lawred2 · 05-08-2018 5:29pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

It may be a small enough issue but it always looks terribly poor when you see a championship match being played with a ball that has the county's name or abbreviation on it.

Is it really that difficult to have 15-20 official match balls that the GAA themselves own that can be used for the match day in every single match like every other sport in the world has.

It is a small thing but I found myself remarking the same. That ball in the Donegal game look like a 4 year old was given half an hour to do what he wanted with it.

osarusan · 05-08-2018 5:40pm

Hi all, completely non GAA fan here, just wondering why the All Ireland finals were brought forward to mid/late August? They were always the first and second weekend in September...what brought about the change? And when was it changed?

The Lost Sheep · 05-08-2018 5:43pm

osarusan wrote: »

Hi all, completely non GAA fan here, just wondering why the All Ireland finals were brought forward to mid/late August? They were always the first and second weekend in September...what brought about the change? And when was it changed?

They were always the first and third weekend in September and the change was to give more time to the clubs. The counties that get to finals are finished a month earlier and everyone else finished that much earlier as well. Gives more time to clubs.
Changed for this year along with changes to provincial championships

intellectual dosser · 07-08-2018 12:24pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Interesting thread. No surprises that all proposed changes focus on football. With the incredible matches we've had this summer in hurling versus the very forgettable football offering, it's easy to see why people are giving the big ball a hammering, but how come so many seem to only be aware of this now? As someone not from a hurling stronghold, its a basic fact to me that hurling has always been a far superior sport for viewing quality. Just because we've had a summer of particular contrast doesnt mean we need to panic about the state of football.

The GAA is allowing itself to become a victim of the modern world where everything must entertain at all costs. Everyone nowadays has short attention spans, quickly becoming bored of something if its not of world class quality. As a result changes are being made at a rapid rate. Black cards, the mark, super 8s have all been thrown at the 'problem', and a lot of posters here seem to think the rules of the game should be significantly adjusted to make the game more asthetically pleasing. It won't work, it will only compound things. I think I've previously used the analogy on Boards of Father Ted finding a dent in the car, and thinking he can buff it out he goes at it delicately with the hammer, and ends up with a write off.

All sports evolve, we just need to allow them to do so. I am hopeful that the next congress will have the courage to not make further changes to rules. I would scrap the Super 8s, they don't solve any of the real problems facing the GAA, and it worsens the problems of player welfare and the gulf in quality across the inter county setup. It was a completely unnecessary change.

For the sake of adding something to the thread; one change I would advocate is a restriction on throw in times depending on how far a team and their supporters have to travel. For example Kildare supporters will be lucky to be leaving Killarney by 9pm this Saturday, not easy if you're bringing a family of young kids. Games need to easier to attend.

The GAA changes are not big enough and invariably end up like a lot of democratic changes where we end up with a camel where the original intent was to come up with a horse.

The mark for example was a good idea however it needed to go all the way and insist all kickouts must pass the 45 metre line, instead we got a half arsed measure.

The black card was another half arsed measure, cynical drag downs like Sean Cavanagh's which sparked the black card being introduced should be red card offence and more yellow cards should be handed out in general and eventually the players would learn.

If footballs problems were short term and only a phase then people wouldn't be complaining so much but the truth is we've had to put up with this overly defensive style of football being the default way of playing the game for over a decade now and things are not going to change unless teams decide to sacrifice winning in order to please the purists (which will never happen).Football in the 1990's early 2000's was when it was at it's best as you had a nice mix of styles in the game and teams played in a positive fashion.

How can you make it better by making changes to the rules?

Some of the suggestions in this thread; restricting the number of players in a zone, restricting the direction a ball can be passed - or can be passed a number of times, the number of points for a score from a particular distance. Just imagine sitting in the stand watching that? Now THAT would be unwatchable. That is assuming it works, most of this GAA forum content is posters bemoaning referees and their ability to implement rules as they are.

It should always come down to the players, I don't see anyone talking about how they find the modern gam? Making them adopt new rules so that the pundits are happier is just wrong.

zetecescort · 08-08-2018 9:53pm

Need to punish cynical fouls in hurling. No excuse for the Galway players reaction but he was almost rugby tackled just to stop Galways attack and a possible goal chance

Bass Reeves · 08-08-2018 10:02pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

How can you make it better by making changes to the rules?

Some of the suggestions in this thread; restricting the number of players in a zone, restricting the direction a ball can be passed - or can be passed a number of times, the number of points for a score from a particular distance. Just imagine sitting in the stand watching that? Now THAT would be unwatchable. That is assuming it works, most of this GAA forum content is posters bemoaning referees and their ability to implement rules as they are.

It should always come down to the players, I don't see anyone talking about how they find the modern gam? Making them adopt new rules so that the pundits are happier is just wrong.

How do you mean it should come down to players

intellectual dosser · 09-08-2018 10:22am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

How do you mean it should come down to players

What they think, what they want.

Niles Crane · 12-08-2018 9:40pm

http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11470746/watch-what-rule-changes-should-be-made-in-gaelic-football

The Sky Sports GAA panel discuss what rules should be changed in Gaelic football to make it a better spectacle.

There's no doubt that hurling has stolen the show so far this summer. The small ball has served up classic after classic, as the Irish sporting public have been enthralled by high-scoring affairs.

The same can't be said for Gaelic football to the same degree, as some of the major championship games have flattered to deceive.

The GAA have tinkered with the sport in recent years to make the game a more attractive prospect, with some degree of success. The introduction of the black card and the mark have had largely positive impacts.

Now focus turns to what else can be done to make Gaelic football a more enticing sport.

Senan Connell, Jim McGuinness, Peter Canavan and Billy Joe Padden joined Brian Carney on the GAA Debate Show to give their views.

Peter Canavan suggested that in order to prevent opposition players delaying a free being taking, there should be a 50-yard penalty rather than merely moving the ball up 13 yards. The former Tyrone All-Ireland winner said: "If that simple rule was brought into Gaelic football, it would speed it up and it would penalise negative play."

Jim McGuinness suggested that the sport adopts a 'back-court' rule akin to basketball.

McGuinness feels you shouldn't be able to return to your own half with the ball
"When you go into the opposition 65, I don't think you should be allowed back out again. It would give teams, from a defensive point of view, a chance to press out and get aggressive pressure on the ball.

"To keep continuity in the game, I think that's a rule that would be easily implemented and would make sense."

Senan Connell said that teams ought to be encouraged to press forward by backwards passes inside your own half being outlawed. The rule is implemented in the Kilmacud Crokes Sevens tournament each year.

Billy Joe Padden wants an 'attacking mark' for forwards inside the 45 when balls are kicked in from outside that area.

"What I really want to see is exciting football. I think the most exciting elements of Gaelic football are good long kicks into the edge of the square where a forward goes up and catches it cleanly. It's a skill we don't see often enough in the game.

"I think that would ask totally different questions of defences. A swarm defence wouldn't really work if a forward is good enough to go up there and catch that ball.

"It would bring back more kicking and catching and that's really what I want to see."

Some interesting suggestions I think.

I think the backcourt rule McGuinness suggested should be introduced.

theoneeyedman · 12-08-2018 9:55pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11470746/watch-what-rule-changes-should-be-made-in-gaelic-football

Some interesting suggestions I think.

I think the backcourt rule McGuinness suggested should be introduced.

That 50 meter rule for the likes of kicking the ball away or slowing up a free is something I mentioned a couple of years ago here. It is in the Australian Rules Afl for the last few years, and has cut down on this type of BS to no end.

Niles Crane · 13-08-2018 10:15am

The problem is that the GAA can easily say it's Dublin dominance which is killing interest (which is partly true) and put off making any rule changes (which are desperately needed). It wouldn't matter whether the era is competitive or not even the competitive games have no spark to them anymore because of the ****e football most teams play.

Bass Reeves · 13-08-2018 10:34am

Niles Crane wrote: »

http://www.skysports.com/gaa/gaelic-football/news/30543/11470746/watch-what-rule-changes-should-be-made-in-gaelic-football

Some interesting suggestions I think.

I think the backcourt rule McGuinness suggested should be introduced.

A back court rule would make the game more defensive again. It would encourage blanket defences to turn over the ball it aws interesting taht Jim McGuiness suggested it. Two of the suggestions Peter Canavans on 50 metres interfering witha free kick and Billy Joe Paddens for an attacking mark inside the opponents 45 would help attacking play. Backward pass inside your own half might encourage forwardas to stay up after losing the ball but we do not want to turn the game into a series of turnovers.

Niles Crane · 13-08-2018 10:45am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A back court rule would make the game more defensive again. It would encourage blanket defences to turn over the ball it aws interesting taht Jim McGuiness suggested it. Two of the suggestions Peter Canavans on 50 metres interfering witha free kick and Billy Joe Paddens for an attacking mark inside the opponents 45 would help attacking play. Backward pass inside your own half might encourage forwardas to stay up after losing the ball but we do not want to turn the game into a series of turnovers.

The backwards pass thing would cut out the keep ball nonsense which has affected the game in recent years, it would encourage teams to push up and take away the idea of passing it backwards over and over again as a way of maintaining possession.

The metre free thing is common sense and should be brought in immediately as it would be easy to implement, and I like the offensive mark suggestion by Billy Joe Padden.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2018 6:37pm

If Dublin as expected win a four in a row could this legendary teams kill Dublin as we know it?
They are so far ahead it is not inconceivable to say they could get five or six AI's in a row?

Surely by being so dominate in leinster ( where they could win it with a third team) this success is making it inevitable.
Part of me is torn and wishes that Dublin slow down a bit maybe one every second year?
Otherwise the GAA will be seriously looking at the partition of Dublin GAA.

I am not sure Ulster GAA counties would support the partition of Dublin but it is likley the others will?

OldMrBrennan83 · 13-08-2018 6:39pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If Dublin as expected win a four in a row could this legendary teams kill Dublin as we know it?
They are so far ahead it is not inconceivable to say they could get five or six AI's in a row?

Surely by being so dominate in leinster ( where they could win it with a third team) this success is making it inevitable.
Part of me is torn and wishes that Dublin slow down a bit maybe one every second year?
Otherwise the GAA will be seriously looking at the partition of Dublin GAA.

I am not sure Ulster GAA counties would support the partition of Dublin but it is likley the others will?

That has been well covered, you'll never get anyone to change their opinion on it.

Fann Linn · 13-08-2018 6:42pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

If Dublin as expected win a four in a row could this legendary teams kill Dublin as we know it?
They are so far ahead it is not inconceivable to say they could get five or six AI's in a row?

Surely by being so dominate in leinster ( where they could win it with a third team) this success is making it inevitable.
Part of me is torn and wishes that Dublin slow down a bit maybe one every second year?
Otherwise the GAA will be seriously looking at the partition of Dublin GAA.

I am not sure Ulster GAA counties would support the partition of Dublin but it is likley the others will?

I think if other counties were seriously looking to 'handicap' Dublin they could begin in Leinster by demanding their home games, a la Kildare. As it stands they appear to be au fait with the current set up, even though they could and would have the numbers to force change.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2018 7:39pm

Patww79 wrote: »

That has been well covered, you'll never get anyone to change their opinion on it.

What I mean is Dublin's unprecedented success is making it seem more likely that it will happen sooner then later.
Because the championship is endanger of dying otherwise.
There has only been about three decent games of football in this years championship.

OldMrBrennan83 · 13-08-2018 7:50pm

Would only be a first step before starting to amalgamate smaller counties into one. There is no step 3 for me because that's where I stop any involvement of any form.

Trampas · 13-08-2018 8:01pm

Jim I believe he said maybe only 11 players in own half. Nearly feel off my seat in laughter at the one Jim 15 men behind the ball mc Guinness.

Basically it was a rule change to stop the play the Dubs do.

I thought the mark and stopping play weren’t bad ideas.

gormdubhgorm · 13-08-2018 8:20pm

Trampas wrote: »

Jim I believe he said maybe only 11 players in own half. Nearly feel off my seat in laughter at the one Jim 15 men behind the ball mc Guinness.

Basically it was a rule change to stop the play the Dubs do.

I thought the mark and stopping play weren’t bad ideas.

The rule about the keeper having to kick the ball past the 20 metre line was brought in to curb cluxton and that did not work either.
He just adapted!

Niles Crane · 14-08-2018 5:50am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

The rule about the keeper having to kick the ball past the 20 metre line was brought in to curb cluxton and that did not work either.
He just adapted!

It wasn't brought in to curb Cluxton it was brought in to stop these nonsense 5 yard kickouts followed by a strong of 20 handpasses before the ball gets close to the other end of the field, almost every team had their keeper kick the ball 5 yards out and follow with loads of handpassing.

The paranoia from Dublin fans is pathetic, rule changes are being suggested to improve the game not to stop Dublin.There are much bigger issues affecting the sport than Dublin being dominant.

Niles Crane · 14-08-2018 5:52am

Trampas wrote: »

Jim I believe he said maybe only 11 players in own half. Nearly feel off my seat in laughter at the one Jim 15 men behind the ball mc Guinness.

Basically it was a rule change to stop the play the Dubs do.

I thought the mark and stopping play weren’t bad ideas.

But he's the perfect person to be making this suggestion because even he can accept that the blanket defence is not necessarily good for the sport despite him being successful because of it.

Thats the sort of open mindedness which is needed not people just wanting to maintain rules because they help themselves be successful.

shockframe · 14-08-2018 9:48pm

For the talk of changes since the weekend. I would say its a bit over the top. The 2018 semi finals were not exactly up there with the best but they were far from the worst either.

Hurling has taken the gloss off the Football championship this year but it's easy to forget over the last 10 years that Hurling had some utterly forgettable championships also. 2010, 2015 and 2016 for instance. It just so happens that a few shrewd managerial appointments has brought about a positive show from many counties this season.

KIlkenny not being what they once were has opened things up a lot. Should Limerick win its 4 different winners in 4 years (same as Kerrys 78-81 4 in a row oddly). This would be the first since 1998-2001.

Football is in the situation Hurling found itself around 2007-09.One team way ahead of the rest and struggling for a challenger.

I believe Football will return to a competitive scene in the next 2-3 years. There is potential there in Kerry, Kildare, Galway and Tyrone. A lot could depend on a Dublin decline. With 5 defenders approaching 30+ and Cluxton in his late 30s they have a lot of replacements to make in the years ahead and that will be a huge ask of them to keep winning, Almost all the players from 1-7 have been involved since 2013 and many since the start of the golden era. It won't be easy for them.

Niles Crane · 14-08-2018 10:21pm

shockframe wrote: »

For the talk of changes since the weekend. I would say its a bit over the top. The 2018 semi finals were not exactly up there with the best but they were far from the worst either.

Hurling has taken the gloss off the Football championship this year but it's easy to forget over the last 10 years that Hurling had some utterly forgettable championships also. 2010, 2015 and 2016 for instance. It just so happens that a few shrewd managerial appointments has brought about a positive show from many counties this season.

KIlkenny not being what they once were has opened things up a lot. Should Limerick win its 4 different winners in 4 years (same as Kerrys 78-81 4 in a row oddly). This would be the first since 1998-2001.

Football is in the situation Hurling found itself around 2007-09.One team way ahead of the rest and struggling for a challenger.

I believe Football will return to a competitive scene in the next 2-3 years. There is potential there in Kerry, Kildare, Galway and Tyrone. A lot could depend on a Dublin decline. With 5 defenders approaching 30+ and Cluxton in his late 30s they have a lot of replacements to make in the years ahead and that will be a huge ask of them to keep winning, Almost all the players from 1-7 have been involved since 2013 and many since the start of the golden era. It won't be easy for them.

I don't think lack of competition is the problem, the games between evenly matched teams are far too often poor also.

The game should definitely be more entertaining than it is at the moment.

threeball · 14-08-2018 11:52pm

Niles Crane wrote: »

I don't think lack of competition is the problem, the games between evenly matched teams are far too often poor also.

The game should definitely be more entertaining than it is at the moment.

Exactly, the game as a spectacle is at a low ebb. I think it stems from the weaker teams spending their time working on a system to stop the top teams, which is almost impossible given the gap in resources, but it results in months of perfecting a system to compete with 2 or 3 teams which makes all the other games they play look like dogsh1t.

Its inevitable at some stage that Dublin will be split. There is no scenario where one county with such huge populations resources will be allowed to grow and grow. Where do you draw the line. When the population surpasses 1.5m, 2m etc. ? The game will be dead long before any of that anyway unless measures are taken. If we get 3 more years similar to this no one will be watching. The GAA will act very quickly once the bottom line starts suffering. It seems to be the only thing the top brass understand.

Changes in the GAA - super thread

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