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Changes in the GAA - super thread

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Comments

  • #1622
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,096 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    When people are trying to justify McKenna’s remarks in that tweet and looking to criticise an unremarkable interview it really is an indication of the deep bitterness at play on this topic.


  • #1623
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,096 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    doc_17 wrote: »
    So...are Kerry currently in their rightful place as the greatest team ever since they have won the most All Irelands? Who is in that perch?

    I have no doubt that Kerrymen would also see it as their “rightful place”. I also don’t doubt that all those involved in their current team are focused on beating Dublin on the field when the opportunity presents itself, rather than whining that someone else should beat Dublin for them off it. I have the height of respect for Kerry football and their achievements through the years. Winners who consistently play the game with great flair.


  • #1624
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    When people are trying to justify McKenna’s remarks in that tweet and looking to criticise an unremarkable interview it really is an indication of the deep bitterness at play on this topic.

    Loyd the deflecting about bitterness/agendas etc isn’t working and certainly isn’t addressing the substantive points made on this thread.

    Deal with the huge inherent advantages that Dublin has and how it needs to be split into 2/4 to address those advantages.

    And then please address the financial doping issue?

    Not juvenile rubbish about bitterness


  • #1625
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    StupidLikeAFox wrote: »
    Ok grand, he was out of order, looking for headlines etc etc - but Gavin was also being disingenuous by saying they worked hard for the win. A bit patronising to the Roscommon players and fans when they barely broke a sweat

    Let me first say that ewan mcK went too far with the personal abuse. However....

    Gavin can never admit in public that Dublin gets every advantage over all the other counties.

    He has admitted in private but never in public.

    It’s taboo for him to mention it in public as it makes a Mickey mockery of Dublin’s so called achievements.

    He and the dub operation knows that so he engages in all the usual palaver, mainly patronising, hand wringing, talking in circles while saying very little and faux modesty.

    As I have said before I would love for him to prove me wrong and go and manage a mid ranking county and see what he can achieve.

    I suspect though he would never have the cajones to do that. The halo might get tarnished...


  • #1626
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    McKenna has deleted his original tweet (further in the Twitter thread he called Gavin a low life too) but has doubled down and retweeted saying he just wanted to change the wording. I hope the agencies that give him breathing space see him for what he is.

    And it is not just Dublin GAA, years ago he said Shane Lowry would never win a major, so after yesterday what did he do? He called Lowry a facist supporter and promoter because he gave a very diplomatic answer years ago in an interview about playing a hypothetical game of golf with Donald Trump.

    No doubt this tweet will be deleted too after he wakes up and sobers up


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  • #1627
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Even Ciaran Whelan can see Dublin have a huge advantage with all the games in Croke Park


  • #1628
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    kilns wrote: »
    McKenna has deleted his original tweet (further in the Twitter thread he called Gavin a low life too) but has doubled down and retweeted saying he just wanted to change the wording. I hope the agencies that give him breathing space see him for what he is.

    And it is not just Dublin GAA, years ago he said Shane Lowry would never win a major, so after yesterday what did he do? He called Lowry a facist supporter and promoter because he gave a very diplomatic answer years ago in an interview about playing a hypothetical game of golf with Donald Trump.

    No doubt this tweet will be deleted too after he wakes up and sobers up

    He actually apologised for the Gavin tweet - tired and emotional


  • #1629
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,770 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Let me first say that ewan mcK went too far with the personal abuse. However....

    Gavin can never admit in public that Dublin gets every advantage over all the other counties.

    He has admitted in private but never in public.

    It’s taboo for him to mention it in public as it makes a Mickey mockery of Dublin’s so called achievements.

    He and the dub operation knows that so he engages in all the usual palaver, mainly patronising, hand wringing, talking in circles while saying very little and faux modesty.

    As I have said before I would love for him to prove me wrong and go and manage a mid ranking county and see what he can achieve.

    I suspect though he would never have the cajones to do that. The halo might get tarnished...

    The thing with mid ranking counties is just that. They're mid ranking. Dublin can beat Meath, Kildare, Cork, Carlow and Louth by cricket scores because that is what a Div 1 side should be doing.

    As has been proven on other occasions when Dublin play teams of a tier 1/ division 1 level the matches are far closer affairs. Apart from last years AI final, which was an outlier the last ones against Mayo(2), Kerry have been close affairs and Donegal actually beat them. Thats before we include recent league defeats to Monaghan (2), Kerry and Tyrone.

    Comparing Dublin to Man City isn't an actual bad similarity. When City play Liverpool, UTD, Arsenal etc overall they're fairly close games. On the other hand however, when they play teams such as Norwich, Tranmere, Accrington Stanley in various cup competitions they do rack up the scores.
    Its just the natural order of competitive sport.


  • #1630
    kilns
    Registered Users Posts: 3,525 ✭✭✭kilns


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    He actually apologised for the Gavin tweet - tired and emotional

    I seem to have missed any apology from him, any link?


  • #1631
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    When people are trying to justify McKenna’s remarks in that tweet and looking to criticise an unremarkable interview it really is an indication of the deep bitterness at play on this topic.

    His remarks were not justified by anyone and the interview was nuanced...
    Sounds like your bitter rage is getting the better of your judgemet... (We can all play that card)


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  • #1632
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    As I have said before I would love for him to prove me wrong and go and manage a mid ranking county and see what he can achieve.

    I suspect though he would never have the cajones to do that. The halo might get tarnished...

    Funny, I dont think gavin would be a success elsewhere. He is able to keep guys honest because of the quality of guys who are not in the team. So he can drop Rock because of Costello playing great. And now rock is playing well. He can take off o'sullivan and kilkenny at any drop in form, because he has the guys good enough to come in. But you dont have that luxury, basically anywhere else. It really is a dream scenario to have as a manager. But if you dont have that, and you are more reliant on guys, that can undermine your power. That isnt to take away from what he has achieved with dublin however,
    But I just dont think it would translate across well.


  • #1633
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    The fact that McKenna called Lowry a fascist because he said he would play golf with the democratically elected head of the US - whatever you might think of him - does not speak highly of his overall intelligence quotient.


  • #1634
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    His remarks were not justified by anyone and the interview was nuanced...
    Sounds like your bitter rage is getting the better of your judgemet... (We can all play that card)


    Still defending McKenna?

    Journalists don't like Jim Gavin because he gives bland interviews that are polite and complimentary to other teams. No news in that.

    For a journalist like McKenna who relies on bitterness and rage to fuel his agenda, it is particularly frustrating that the likes of Gavin give him nothing. Similarly, with him on Lowry, an obviously nice guy who takes victory and defeat in his stride, nothing there for McKenna's bitterness and rage.

    As for Gavin's comments, Clerkin in today's Irish Independent got it right "Some might scoff at Jim Gavin's post-match musings when he said that they had to work hard for their victory over Roscommon. Trust me, you don't beat teams as convincingly as they do without working hard. There is nothing easy about beating a provincial champion by 20 points".

    Now that is an honest assessment. The likes of McKenna and people like yourself need to put aside your bitterness and disappointments and just admire the pure football played by Dublin.


  • #1635
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Funny, I dont think gavin would be a success elsewhere. He is able to keep guys honest because of the quality of guys who are not in the team. So he can drop Rock because of Costello playing great. And now rock is playing well. He can take off o'sullivan and kilkenny at any drop in form, because he has the guys good enough to come in. But you dont have that luxury, basically anywhere else. It really is a dream scenario to have as a manager. But if you dont have that, and you are more reliant on guys, that can undermine your power. That isnt to take away from what he has achieved with dublin however,
    But I just dont think it would translate across well.


    Funniest post of the week in my opinion.

    If you took Gavin out of Dublin and put him in Mayo, you might have won one of the last five or six, rather than none.


  • #1636
    Salvation Tambourine
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭Salvation Tambourine


    Is there an article somewhere or can someone here outline exactly what the Dublin senior football team is using their additional funding for that other counties don't have?

    I'm under the assumption that other counties have gyms, nutritionists, analysis teams and other facilities like flood light pitches am I wrong is this assumption? What do Dublin have that other counties don't?


  • #1637
    d22ontour
    Registered Users Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭d22ontour


    Nokotan wrote: »
    What do Dublin have that other counties don't?


    Better players.


  • #1638
    rebel girl 15
    Registered Users, Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 15,247 Mod ✭✭✭✭rebel girl 15


    windy shepard henderson wrote: »
    he is a total disgrace of a journalist , if he printed some of the stuff about munster rugby or dublin football on here he would be ran ,

    he has zero clue what he is talking about ,both codey and gavin are briefed on what to say for years and this idiot knew it but taught he is better then the world to print his ****e , he is an idiot of a man full stop :mad:

    His tweets always come back to haunt him

    He posted a lovely one a few years ago about Shane Lowry never having the bottle to win a major

    Ooops!


  • #1639
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    Nokotan wrote: »
    Is there an article somewhere or can someone here outline exactly what the Dublin senior football team is using their additional funding for that other counties don't have?

    I'm under the assumption that other counties have gyms, nutritionists, analysis teams and other facilities like flood light pitches am I wrong is this assumption? What do Dublin have that other counties don't?

    Roscommon have zero training facilities
    They have to borrow club pitches to train or AIT
    Their gym was set up in December in a snall industrial unit paid for by supporters

    Dublin gets 2 million from AIG as well as other sponsors and don't have to fundraise for anything

    Whereas the likes of Roscommon are begging for money off their supporters just to keep up with expenses from game to game


  • #1640
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    d22ontour wrote: »
    Better players.

    How did they develop those players?

    Where do Man City and Liverpool get their better players from?


  • #1641
    HBC08
    Registered Users Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭HBC08


    The way things are stacked now it would be a total embarrassment if dublin dont win the All Ireland every year.

    When kilkenny and before that Kerry were dominating their sports there was bitterness towards them because they were the best and thats what happens in sport.
    There is bitterness towards dublin because their success has been completely manufactured and is a farce.
    There will be an asterisk beside their name after they get the 5 in a row.


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  • #1642
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    The fact that McKenna called Lowry a fascist because he said he would play golf with the democratically elected head of the US - whatever you might think of him - does not speak highly of his overall intelligence quotient.

    In a tweet? In fairness if people's intelligence quotient was judged by their statments on the internet then all the advantage deniers on this thread would be thouroughly written off in that department...


  • #1643
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    d22ontour wrote: »
    Better players.

    True.
    The real question is how did they get them.
    Answer, 17 million euro that nobody else can get. The fact that people dont realise their current players wouldnt be as good without that money only reflects on their 'intelligence quotient'...


  • #1644
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,282 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    In a tweet? In fairness if people's intelligence quotient was judged by their statments on the internet then all the advantage deniers on this thread would be thouroughly written off in that department...

    That’s definitely a one way street


  • #1645
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Funniest post of the week in my opinion.

    If you took Gavin out of Dublin and put him in Mayo, you might have won one of the last five or six, rather than none.

    I dont believe we would have. Unless the 17 million was coming with him...


  • #1646
    MayoAreMagic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    salmocab wrote: »
    That’s definitely a one way street

    Well on this topic it is. It doesnt take much intellect to see that the money has had a massive influence. If you cant see that and deny it, then obviously that tells its own story as regards intellect. I dont see how that works the other way. How can realising the blatently obvious correct conclusion reflect badly on intellect?
    In reality it cant, but I suppose the important thing is to have a comeback, right?


  • #1647
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    How did they develop those players?

    Where do Man City and Liverpool get their better players from?

    Wait are Dublin buying players from other counties now?


  • #1648
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    Well on this topic it is. It doesnt take much intellect to see that the money has had a massive influence. If you cant see that and deny it, then obviously that tells its own story as regards intellect. I dont see how that works the other way. How can realising the blatently obvious correct conclusion reflect badly on intellect?
    In reality it cant, but I suppose the important thing is to have a comeback, right?


    Since the 1950s, both the atmospheric CO2 level and obesity levels have increased sharply. Hence, atmospheric CO2 causes obesity.

    Dublin got increased money for increasing juvenile participation. Dublin won more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage). Hence, increased money casues more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage).

    That is the level your argument is at, one of correlation, not causation. The flaws in the argument have been pointed out but you keep returning to the level of argument that atmospheric CO2 causing obesity.

    So rather than realising the blatantly obvious, when you look into it, it is not the simple story you claim it to be. Dublin have the best players and the best manager. Most of them came to football before the money. The money has increased juvenile participation, particularly in schools where GDOs spend most of their time, but hasn't knocked on into senior club and county participation.

    The real anti-intellectuallism is in seeing a spurious connection and falling for it as you have done.


  • #1649
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    MayoAreMagic wrote: »
    I dont believe we would have. Unless the 17 million was coming with him...

    That's it in a nutshell.

    The guy would be nowhere without the megamillions in games development funds backing him up and majority of home games.

    At least Mick O' Dwyer was successfull at 3 if not 4 different counties.

    I can't see Gavin ever trying that.


  • #1650
    ToBeFrank123
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 2,176 ✭✭✭ToBeFrank123


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Since the 1950s, both the atmospheric CO2 level and obesity levels have increased sharply. Hence, atmospheric CO2 causes obesity.

    Dublin got increased money for increasing juvenile participation. Dublin won more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage). Hence, increased money casues more senior football All-Irelands (but not hurling ones or at underage).

    That is the level your argument is at, one of correlation, not causation. The flaws in the argument have been pointed out but you keep returning to the level of argument that atmospheric CO2 causing obesity.

    So rather than realising the blatantly obvious, when you look into it, it is not the simple story you claim it to be. Dublin have the best players and the best manager. Most of them came to football before the money. The money has increased juvenile participation, particularly in schools where GDOs spend most of their time, but hasn't knocked on into senior club and county participation.

    The real anti-intellectuallism is in seeing a spurious connection and falling for it as you have done.

    Ah would you stop.

    If you can't see that having more professional coaches causes a more professional approach to the game, better skills training, nuitrition, s&c, etc you really are clueless about sport.


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  • #1651
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,341 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Wait are Dublin buying players from other counties now?
    They've funding for anything they want


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