Dishwasher Recommendations

frash · 02-04-2019 2:56pm #1

There hasn't been a thread on this in a while...

I need a new dishwasher.
Old one packed it in after only 4 years. A Whirlpool, so won't be getting one of them again.

My parents have a BEKO and swear by it.

Don't particularly need anything special other than it's an integrated one and would prefer an adjustable rack so that it's easier to put big things in.
There's an "ooh err" in there somewhere!

Any & all recommendations gratefully received.

Thanks for reading

handlemaster · 02-04-2019 2:58pm

no sure but check the energy rating and water usage. The size of the interior also, really annoying when you have plates that wont fit. Bought one last year a whirlpool I think, no issues yet.

frash · 02-04-2019 3:05pm

handlemaster wrote: »

no sure but check the energy rating and water usage. The size of the interior also, really annoying when you have plates that wont fit. Bought one last year a whirlpool I think, no issues yet.

Thanks for that - hope your Whirlpool lasts longer than mine.

Our is on twice a day at least though so it does see plenty of action.

The Red Ace · 02-04-2019 10:21pm

Most of the older well known brands that worked well for up to 20 years are no longer made in the UK Germany or to a lesser extent Italy. Most of the appliances nowadays come from Turkey even with the well known brand names. You must remember that a machine that costs approx. 400 euro and lasts 4 or 5 years isn't doing too bad for the money involved because it contains the retailer and importer mark up along with 23% vat. when machines made in the 80s etc and lasted those long lives they would cost you 3 weeks wages. Looking at what you want in a d/w plus long life have a look at the AEG range and if your budget doesn't stretch that far look at Electrolux also part of the same group but made in Germany, they are on par with the appliances of yester year all of which I have worked on

frash · 03-04-2019 8:54am

The Red Ace wrote: »

Most of the older well known brands that worked well for up to 20 years are no longer made in the UK Germany or to a lesser extent Italy. Most of the appliances nowadays come from Turkey even with the well known brand names. You must remember that a machine that costs approx. 400 euro and lasts 4 or 5 years isn't doing too bad for the money involved because it contains the retailer and importer mark up along with 23% vat. when machines made in the 80s etc and lasted those long lives they would cost you 3 weeks wages. Looking at what you want in a d/w plus long life have a look at the AEG range and if your budget doesn't stretch that far look at Electrolux also part of the same group but made in Germany, they are on par with the appliances of yester year all of which I have worked on

Thanks for that.
Don't think the budget will stretch to an AEG but will see if there's any deals going on an Electrolux.

Seeing as you work on dishwashers.... what do you make of BEKO?

The Red Ace · 03-04-2019 9:08pm

frash wrote: »

Thanks for that.
Don't think the budget will stretch to an AEG but will see if there's any deals going on an Electrolux.

Seeing as you work on dishwashers.... what do you make of BEKO?

I think most of the products made in Turkey are much the same but in recent times Beko are making their own branded machines better. Going by your original post where you say you use the d/w twice a day that's twice the normal usage so in effect a machine that works for 4 years has done an estimated 8 years work

Anteayer · 04-04-2019 11:02am

The mid level and upwards Bosch dishwasher are pretty much indestructible in my experience of them. The budget end not so much.

There are still very well made machines out there but they're not cheap, Miele for example make appliances that are closer to what you'd expect in a commercial machine but you pay big money.

I think sometimes people forget how cheap these things are now relative to what we used to pay for them 30 years ago. You always get the comparisons about how they don't last as long anymore, but they're also fraction of the price when you factor in inflation.

An automatic washing machine from a brand like Hoover in the 1970s works out at about 2 grand in modern money when you factor in inflation. So basically a 1970s Hoover washer and a 2019 high end Miele were actually in the same kind of price bracket and you can see that in the build quality and materials used.

They're produced more efficiently using a lot more automation in assembly and also are using cheap labour, but they're making savings on materials - plastics in place of metals and so on.

youtheman · 04-04-2019 11:28am

I have a Siemens dishwasher and it is very reliable. I'd also look at the quoted noise level of any unit you are thinking of purchasing (might be an issue if it's in an open plan kitchen). Also, for a fully integrated unit it's nice to have a unit that projects a red light on the floor that lets you know it's still mid cycle.

Phil.x · 04-04-2019 11:35am

Neff, mine is 16 years old, cost 1200.

EmmaC1978 · 04-04-2019 4:17pm

I'd second Siemens, I have my integrated one just over 6 years and it's still going strong. I even brought it with us when we moved house last year!

Anteayer · 05-04-2019 3:55pm

Bosch, Siemens and Neff branded machines are made by BSH which was setup as a joint venture between Bosch and Siemens to manufacture household appliances.

Bosch bought out Siemens's share a few years ago but they're continuing to license the Siemens brand.

So basically you're getting very similar machines with any of those brands as they're all from the same company.

In terms of quality, my folks have a Miele dishwasher from 1993 which gets heavy use and has never had a single repair other than when someone snapped the handle off the filter and had to order a new one. Pricy machine but 26 years of service and still going perfectly.

frash · 05-04-2019 4:36pm

Anteayer wrote: »

In terms of quality, my folks have a Miele dishwasher from 1993 which gets heavy use and has never had a single repair other than when someone snapped the handle off the filter and had to order a new one. Pricy machine but 26 years of service and still going perfectly.

Wow that's impressive.
I ended up getting a BEKO - for under €300 you couldn't really leave it there!

Hopefully I'll get more than 4 years out of it but if I don't think there's no big loss.

Thanks all for the replies

byte · 05-04-2019 10:25pm

frash wrote: »

Wow that's impressive.
I ended up getting a BEKO - for under €300 you couldn't really leave it there!

Hopefully I'll get more than 4 years out of it but if I don't think there's no big loss.

Thanks all for the replies

If you haven't done so already, it might be no harm to register the appliance for the 2nd year warranty on www.beko.ie/register

antiskeptic · 09-04-2019 6:06pm

frash wrote: »

Hopefully I'll get more than 4 years out of it but if I don't think there's no big loss.

The environment might disagree (this comment not aimed at you personally).

There's approx the same energy, materials, time gone into a Miele as a cheapo. It's just that the cheapo will use a cheaper grade of resistor on a board, or a cheaper bearing in a motor. And the machine claps up quickly.

I recall being dismayed, when going to buy a large bearing for a university project moons ago. At €110 euro, it equalled the total budget for the project! As I turned away glumly, the bloke behind the counter said "but I have these Polish ones. They're €8 a piece. It might last a month, it might last 5 years"

The difference was the quality control and the precise matching of components that made the difference. Globally, they used the same stuff...

We might as well enjoy the throwaway whilst we can. It's not going to be going on too many years more.

antoinolachtnai · 09-04-2019 11:12pm

antiskeptic wrote: »

The environment might disagree (this comment not aimed at you personally).

There's approx the same energy, materials, time gone into a Miele as a cheapo. It's just that the cheapo will use a cheaper grade of resistor on a board, or a cheaper bearing in a motor. And the machine claps up quickly.

Well, they actually don't. A miele machine will typically weigh a good bit more (a quick check suggests about 16 percent. It just uses heavier steel and so on. This translates into greater cost and greater environmental impact. And if it delivers quality, that is great.

But you have to ask do you really need it. The sides of a beko dishwasher can be pretty tinny for instance. But providing you slot it in between the units as soon as you unpack it, and don't move house too often, it probably doesn't matter. You typically only get to see these bits of the machine twice in its lifetime, and the second time you don't care.

I recall being dismayed, when going to buy a large bearing for a university project moons ago. At €110 euro, it equalled the total budget for the project! As I turned away glumly, the bloke behind the counter said "but I have these Polish ones. They're €8 a piece. It might last a month, it might last 5 years"

The difference was the quality control and the precise matching of components that made the difference. Globally, they used the same stuff...

We might as well enjoy the throwaway whilst we can. It's not going to be going on too many years more.

I just don't know if it is as true as it used to be anymore. It certainly sometimes is, but it isn't always.

This happened in cars years ago. You just can't say a rolls royce is more reliable than a toyota or hyundai. It's heavier, sure, and it's got more expensive components, but you can't say it's actually a more reliable car. It'll definitely use more petrol.

Similarly, everyone used to be comforatble saying that German built cars were the best. You can't say that anymore. There are fine cars being made in Slovakia, Korea, California and who knows where else. Manufacturing has changed and it is possible to make quality anywhere, if you make the investment in tooling up the factory and training the people.

I look at the inside of my 2-year-old low-to-mid-range bosch dishwasher and compare it to my mother's 8-year-old high end siemens. The programs seem to be the same and the visible components are the same. There are differences. It doesn't have as fancy a control panel or external digital display. It is noisier. This may be because there's lower quality components, but at least some of this is I think because it has less padding and noise deadening. It's made in Spain (in one of the old Fagor factories I presume) rather than Germany. I am really happy with this dishwasher, and it was pretty cheap. I don't use the dishwasher intensively enough for any difference in quality between it and its more expensive brother to really matter to me. (If I used it every single day it might make a difference, if there is one.)

We are also being 'played' with branding. There is a famous southern European brand in the fridge business now which sells glam, stylised kitchen equipment. But 35 years ago, it was basically a cheap brand of oven. Someone gave it a makeover and 'repositioned' it. The brand doesn't mean anything or have any values in and of itself. It is just a fancy name put on an overstyled, overpriced fridge-freezer. Equally, Bosch and Siemens and NEFF are now interchangeable buttons which can be stuck on different machines depending on the discretion of a guy in a polo neck t-shirt who works in morkiting who wouldn't know how to unblock a dishwasher sump even if his netflix subscription depended on it.

At least when you buy a Beko you are somewhat clear on what you are actually buying. It may not be the world's greatest dishwasher but at least it is an honest dishwasher, and I think that counts for something in this day and age.

(And where does anybody think that the people who assembled dishwashers in Germany's factories in the late 1980s actually came from?)

(I buy white goods about once or twice a year in relation to rental property I help with. I have had great success with the Beko products over the last three or four years. Tenants are very satisfied with the Beko laundry gear. I was fiddling with a washer-dryer machine the other day and I thought the electronic controls were very well arranged. The refrigeration seems to do pretty ok too. One tenant was completely thrilled with the Beko-branded replacement fan oven I bought. I got one beko slimline dishwasher which feels a bit tinny but actually functions very well after three years. I seem to end up buying Bosch full-size freestanding dishwashers though; they seem to be priced competitively for my part of the market.)

Anteayer · 10-04-2019 12:16am

Environmental impact of manufacturing's largely about how long it lasts and where the components and raw materials came from and how they were manufactured.

One machine lasting 20+ years vs one lasting 2 years, no matter how light the materials are the machine's massively more environmentally burdensome because it'll be in the bin in 2 years.

Without a proper environmental policy / transparency on the supply chain, with most brands we've no idea.

antoinolachtnai · 10-04-2019 12:44am

Which dishwasher lasts only two years though?

What you say is true of the past. But is is necessarily the truth for the future? The car market simply does not work the way you describe for instance. (Though I accept that the dishwasher business is nothing like the car business at the moment, but with the various EU initiatives on product life, that could well change.)

I would also say that Miele is an exceptional brand, with completely different positioning and design from the rest. It certainly is a more solid thing, and there are environmental advantages for sure in certain circumstances. But it does not necessarily represent value for money.

And the idea that more expensive machines are better than cheap ones does not seem to me to generalise. I do not see that there is that much difference between a 300 euro bosch and an 800 euro siemens dishwasher. Maybe there is, but I am not seeing it.

If you are not putting the cycles on the machine it may not be worth having the extra cost either.

I read this and I think the whole thing is ballyhoo. Without repairability, the extra up-front cost is harder to make add up.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/36pW614YM6Ykqxx4J07JB9h/who-can-repair-your-household-appliances

Anteayer · 10-04-2019 12:52am

Again though it's usually the cheap, no-brand / store brand stuff that's difficult to repair / has no spares and so on.

Bosch has pretty much any part of any machine available online very easily - and they're not THAT expensive.

meeeeh · 16-07-2019 12:45pm

I was just told by the man who repaired our Bosch dishwasher that quality in general has gone downhill layely and the only dishwasher they recommend is Miele. Another repair centre singled out Miele, another brand I can't remember and surprisingly Beko.

I don't know how reliable the reviews are, from experience I would advise against Fisher and Paykel two drawer dishwasher. The most rubbish appliance we bought.

WasupDude · 16-07-2019 12:56pm

I heard that a lot of people that washed their disc, and it melted and got strange forms. I've washed it about 4 times, and everything is okay, may it be because I my dishwasher https://ianboer.com.au/washing/dishwashers/ is a brand new one and you can choose the temperature and the way the washing has to complete.