Sweet Baby Jesus.

Cadpat_cowboy · 21-07-2018 6:16am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not content with losing their firearms, the regular lads manage to pepper spray themselves.:D:D
Sure,arm the regular aGS with tasers they said.They need them they said.:)

https://lovindublin.com/news/garda-pepper-spray-dublin

I thought it was going to be the wind blew the spray back on to the Garda, nope they just forgot which end is the bussisness end.

But what I find worrying is this "the prevention of a breach of the peace" this is very ambiguous, it could also be used to cover the Garda action for using a restricted weapon any time.

gunny123 · 21-07-2018 1:29pm

That is an obvious problem with pepper spray, the wind blowing it around and possibly back into your own mush. Maybe tazers would be better ?

cookimonster · 21-07-2018 2:16pm

The use of pepper spray both in close quarters and a distance will always present a risk to the user or the good guys. Once the agent becomes an aerosol any slight breeze will create a WMD so to speak. Hollywood has a lot to answer for.
A lot of agents used now are delivered in a jet of liquid and if not wareing the appropriate PPE your still liable to contamination.
Anyone that has been trained around CS gas will know that secondary contamination can occur from hands and clothing. Charming stuff.....when asked why one should be exposed to it, the usual rhetoric is 'so you'll know what to expect if you get gassed'.......this is usually followed up by a mutter from the section of ' so those that means your going to shoot us as well!!!!...'

Cadpat_cowboy · 21-07-2018 2:22pm

cookimonster wrote: »

The use of pepper spray both in close quarters and a distance will always present a risk to the user or the good guys. Once the agent becomes an aerosol any slight breeze will create a WMD so to speak. Hollywood has a lot to answer for.
A lot of agents used now are delivered in a jet of liquid and if not wareing the appropriate PPE your still liable to contamination.
Anyone that has been trained around CS gas will know that secondary contamination can occur from hands and clothing. Charming stuff.....when asked why one should be exposed to it, the usual rhetoric is 'so you'll know what to expect if you get gassed'.......this is usually followed up by a mutter from the section of ' so those that means your going to shoot us as well!!!!...'

Yes but it seems the Garda pointed it in the wrong direction before deploying the gas. You would think the bottle would have a cut out for your finger on one side and the nozzle on the other to avoid incidents like this.

As for the comment about tazers, are they not classified as firearms? Do we as a people really want to normalise the use of firearms by our police force? Dose anybody know the rules of engagement for the Garda concerning tazers? Or is the same as Cs gas, it can be used to prevent a breach of the peace?

cookimonster · 21-07-2018 2:39pm

The artical doesn't exactly deliver much detail other than the spray was pointed in the wrong direction.
Now maybe it was the a case of 'PC Plod looking down the hose pipe' or maybe in the middle of a melee, when neither friend or foe know which is up or down the gas was deployed and friendly fire was recieved?

I think the use of such non leathal deterrents are a better option then arming rank and file AGS with lethal weapons such as hand guns. The old hickory stick, batton, used in the wrong way is a lethal weapon and frankly battons all though still relevant are a poor subsituite in many cases where physical violence is offered against the AGS.

Grizzly 45 · 21-07-2018 9:32pm

If they are going to be using tasers and pepper spray. You need to be pepper sprayed and taserd ONCE in training to know a few things
1]It hurts and [2] You won't fuk around with this stuff [3] It is not a magic wand either that drops people very quickly
I give you Rodney King as an example of someone who was Maced and still would not go down. You can still function very well even with a face load of CS or pepper spray[,and speaking of that one from personal experience] Its part of US police and military training, as there might be a chance of you getting a face load of this stuff in a riot.

And you don't need to be hospitalised after being hit with pepper spray.You need a pint of MILK and some baby wipes or mineral oil.Milk having some fat content will bind to the pepper oil [Capiscium] molecules and neutralise them, so flush your eyes out with milk. Same as the baby wipes,or mineral oil just wipe exposed skin down and wash any clothes to get rid of any traces.

gunny123 · 21-07-2018 9:44pm

Cadpat_cowboy wrote: »

As for the comment about tazers, are they not classified as firearms? Do we as a people really want to normalise the use of firearms by our police force?

Classified as fireams ? Yes. Are they firearms ? No.

If you use a taser correctly they do not kill people, it puts them down on the ground and stops them assaulting you.

As for normalising firearms, they have already been normalised by the terrorists and criminals over the past 50 years. Most people know this and i suppose accept it, apart from the far left loons in the dail who just want to "fight da powa".

cookimonster · 21-07-2018 11:38pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

If they are going to be using tasers and pepper spray. You need to be pepper sprayed and taserd ONCE in training to know a few things.....
.

I still think this is a self perpetrating train of taught....
'sh#t happened to me in training and it's sure as fu#k going to happen to you now....'

Having my sinus switch to free flow and my eyeballs feel like I bathed them in a sand pit didn't notch my skills level up any.

On the other hand of the spectrum try functioning with an eyeball or two rubbed by a careless hand after preparing fresh chillies and you'll be feck all use to anyone for a while.

Grizzly 45 · 22-07-2018 6:55pm

cookimonster wrote: »

I still think this is a self perpetrating train of taught....
'sh#t happened to me in training and it's sure as fu#k going to happen to you now....'

Having my sinus switch to free flow and my eyeballs feel like I bathed them in a sand pit didn't notch my skills level up any.

OR,did it prove to you can still function thru the pain of flamming eyeballs as a riot unit?

On the other hand of the spectrum try functioning with an eyeball or two rubbed by a careless hand after preparing fresh chillies and you'll be feck all use to anyone for a while.

[/QUOTE]

Oh I can attest to that one...Did it by mistake on a shoot in Hungary,where fresh chillies are part of a staple diet.The pheasants were very happy about my mishap that afternoon.:) Thought that was worse than being hit with Mace[The dumb sht you do when you are younger to get a T shirt:P]

cookimonster · 23-07-2018 12:02am

I used to have pictures some where of fellow members of the course after exciting the gas chamber minus gas mask where moments before we stood answering several questions about our number, rank and name and some more nonsensical ones added in for good measure. All designed to expose the student to the gas and induce a lung full or two.
I don't recall seeing many of us (after my eyes stoped streaming that is) fit for combat at that stage. Staggering, blinded, snotting zombies more like.

Tried the pepper spray abroad, thought we'd be smart and spray it into the air and step into the 'cloud' .... result, yeah it hurt a bit, but we ended up 'macing' the mates girlfriend standing down wind about 10 feet away .

Grizzly 45 · 23-07-2018 10:06am

USAF police basic pepper spray training.You WILL function after being sprayed...Whether you like it or not!.
https://youtu.be/Bo-TnZ8LUJ8

cookimonster · 23-07-2018 10:55am

Very good, but a bit clinical.
I was in my late thirties and had to undergo some training for potential prison service work.
Myself and a collegue were the older lemons with a lot of the other NCO's and Ptes way junior in age to us. Any how for the grappling, restraint and compliance techniques we were matched against each other, no issues. But when it came to cell extraction and 'working' with the younger lads that was an experince. If a lad does not want to go quietly then bar breaking him up it's a little more difficult to restrain them when you yourself are restrained as to the amount of force you can use.
If anything the video shows how, if determined, a bad guy can fight through the effects of pepper spray and continue an attack especially if the good guys don't use a higher degree of force.

Grizzly 45 · 13-08-2018 2:01pm

Had an interesting chat with someone in the know on these matters over the weekend. More interesting this info came from the UK rather than Ireland.:eek:

Apparently, yes it can be done legally under our legislation as it stands. But they didn't know how or weren't saying. There isn't really any protocol, situations or conditions to grant, it's decided on a case by case

However, of aquiring one is about as likely as finding a piebald unicorn in the RDS this week. You are dealing on an entry level with your Cheif Super and up the chain from there,and you would want to be in such extremes a situation to get one.
Probably like the Danish lad who drew some pictures the "Aloha Snackbar" followers found offensive...Maybe, possibly.

More than likely,you would be issued something from the Park,but its another can of worms for them,if you do use it,as nowadays GSOC is involved and will be asking all sorts of awkward questions about how Garda property was used by a civilian in a fatal shooting,etc....No info on training, storage conditions,etc.

BattleCorp · 13-08-2018 2:05pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Had an interesting chat with someone in the know on these matters over the weekend. More interesting this info came from the UK rather than Ireland.:eek:

Apparently, yes it can be done legally under our legislation as it stands. But they didn't know how or weren't saying. There isn't really any protocol, situations or conditions to grant, it's decided on a case by case

However, of aquiring one is about as likely as finding a piebald unicorn in the RDS this week. You are dealing on an entry level with your Cheif Super and up the chain from there,and you would want to be in such extremes a situation to get one.
Probably like the Danish lad who drew some pictures the "Aloha Snackbar" followers found offensive...Maybe, possibly.

More than likely,you would be issued something from the Park,but its another can of worms for them,if you do use it,as nowadays GSOC is involved and will be asking all sorts of awkward questions about how Garda property was used by a civilian in a fatal shooting,etc....No info on training, storage conditions,etc.

My missus has threatened me on many an occasion for buying more guns, would the Park give me a gun for self defence?

solarwinds · 13-08-2018 2:33pm

You better hope she doesnt use one of your guns.
Because as we all know you are the one who would be in trouble for not having secured them against unauthorised access.
And as any who are married will definitely know it was your fault anyway.

Grizzly 45 · 13-08-2018 2:35pm

Sure! Just drop into your chief with one dapple unicorn mare and one piebald unicorn stallion, and he'll see you right in no time.:D

meathstevie · 14-08-2018 12:40am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Not content with losing their firearms, the regular lads manage to pepper spray themselves.:D:D
Sure,arm the regular aGS with tasers they said.They need them they said.:)

https://lovindublin.com/news/garda-pepper-spray-dublin

Having some experience with CS spray I can hand on heart tell you that nobody in a three meter radius of deployment walks away without a few tears and snots......

Emmersonn · 14-08-2018 9:30am

meathstevie wrote: »

Having some experience with CS spray I can hand on heart tell you that nobody in a three meter radius of deployment walks away without a few tears and snots......

A few tears and snots is one thing to walk away with. Difficult enough to walk away with a few grains of misdirected lead. :eek:

Grizzly 45 · 14-08-2018 10:24am

Unpleasant, irritating, but not utterly incapacitating either.Refer to youtube for videos of Military police,military and civvie police training after getting hit with this stuff.Feck just watch any video with ANTIFA thugs spraying people they disagree with.No one has fallen flat over either after being hit with this stuff.

gunny123 · 14-08-2018 10:36am

Wait until the scummers start taking the drug monkey dust here. It turns them into terminators by all accounts. More than pepper spray needed then.

Grizzly 45 · 14-08-2018 11:06am

Good snout load of Coke or PCP will make you immune as well.:eek:

Half-cocked · 27-08-2018 12:36pm

Not the Gardaí this time....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45320202

Cass · 05-09-2018 9:34am

Yet more from across the pond.

tac foley · 05-09-2018 9:31pm

The 'wrong' here is HUGE. Even the slightest chance of getting live brass-cased or alloy-cased ammunition 'inadvertently' mixed up with bright blue training ammunition [the stuff usually employed in training] is unthinkable - or should be.

The training staff should be looking for their next job, hopefully one where there is no chance of getting colours mixed up... They don't need re-training, they need re-assigning.

To the dole line.

Mind you, the British police have a well-developed habit of shooting people in training, sometimes while they are actually sitting in a classroom.

gunny123 · 05-09-2018 10:28pm

tac foley wrote: »

The training staff should be looking for their next job, hopefully one where there is no chance of getting colours mixed up... They don't need re-training, they need re-assigning.

I read yesterday that a huge amount of firearms officers in the UK are going to be tested for colour blindness, because they never were before. Which means that they could not see the red-dot sights used by the police.

meathstevie · 06-09-2018 12:01am

tac foley wrote: »

The 'wrong' here is HUGE. Even the slightest chance of getting live brass-cased or alloy-cased ammunition 'inadvertently' mixed up with bright blue training ammunition [the stuff usually employed in training] is unthinkable - or should be.

The training staff should be looking for their next job, hopefully one where there is no chance of getting colours mixed up... They don't need re-training, they need re-assigning.

To the dole line.

Mind you, the British police have a well-developed habit of shooting people in training, sometimes while they are actually sitting in a classroom.

A bit strange since Glock actually makes a specific pistol to fire the bright blue training ammo which is unable to chamber 9x19 but cycles and handles like the real thing. These guns would appear to be quite common for live fire simulation exercises. A real live fire training exercise of course is what it is and range discipline and due caution are the words.

tac foley · 06-09-2018 9:23am

meathstevie wrote: »

A bit strange since Glock actually makes a specific pistol to fire the bright blue training ammo which is unable to chamber 9x19 but cycles and handles like the real thing. These guns would appear to be quite common for live fire simulation exercises. A real live fire training exercise of course is what it is and range discipline and due caution are the words.

The occasion I mentioned took place with a civilian instructor and a 'firearms familiarisation' course. He was demonstrating a .44 Magnum revolver when it 'somehow went off' shooting a student police officer in the chest. He survived.

gunny123 · 06-09-2018 3:08pm

The police are pretty hopeless worldwide it seems, when it comes to handling firearms. A quick search on google or youtube reveals literally dozens of examples of very dodgy handling of firearms.