Adding Computer Science as Teaching Subject

Leftwaffe · 21-03-2021 3:25pm #1

Hi guys,

Just curious about adding computer science as a teaching subject. I already have a degree with two subjects already, not related to the sciences.

Has anyone done this?
Am I looking at another 4 year degree or what courses are available?
Does having a teaching degree already count for anything?

I checked the Teaching Council website and it’s says the following:

“The qualifying degree must carry at least 180 ECTS (European Credit Transfer System) credits (or equivalent) with the specific study of Computer Science comprising at least 60 ECTS credits (or equivalent).”

Nothing about those with an existing teaching degree already.

Thanks.

rainbowtrout · 21-03-2021 10:46pm

LIT were offering a course last year, a friend of mine did it. I don't know what the course is called.

rainbowtrout · 21-03-2021 10:48pm

This is it:

https://lit.ie/en-ie/courses/master-of-science-in-computer-science-for-teac-(2)

Leftwaffe · 21-03-2021 11:06pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

This is it:

https://lit.ie/en-ie/courses/master-of-science-in-computer-science-for-teac-(2)

Thanks for this. This is the one I have been looking at for next year. 7 grand though!

trihead · 22-03-2021 8:09pm

There are several course out there - they vary a lot in price from couple of hundred euro (springboard for example) to several thousand. Some teachers combine courses to get the extra 60 credits. Its vital you reference the TC doc so you have the required subject area for modules. page 14 of https://www.teachingcouncil.ie/en/news-events/latest-news/curricular-subject-requirements.pdf You have do this yourself - TC won't do this for you.

There are several courses that teachers are doing -
(It's just a list - no idea on the quality etc)

UCD
https://www.ucd.ie/education/newsandevents/allnewsevents/2017news/september2017/

TCD
https://www.tcd.ie/Education/programmes/certificate-21Century-Teaching-Learning/

LIT – Flexible / Online Already mentioned above.
https://lit.ie/en-IE/Courses/Certificate-in-Coding-and-Computational-Thinking

LYIT – Flexible / Online
https://www.lyit.ie/CourseDetails/D202/LY_KEDUC_G/ScienceinComputingforEducators
https://www.lyit.ie/CourseDetails/D202/LY_KEDRS_M/ComputerScienceEducationResearch

TU
https://www.it-tallaght.ie/index.cfm/page/coursept?code=TA_KCOMP_HD This was supported by Spiringboard in the past.

Springboard
springboardcourses.ie - too many to list here related to CS.

Leftwaffe · 03-05-2021 9:47pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

LIT were offering a course last year, a friend of mine did it. I don't know what the course is called.

So, Ive decided to go for this course. I think its only 3,300 which isn't too bad. Did your friend mention if it was difficult or not?

I have a bit of experience in computer programming so I'm hoping I'll be able for it.

stiofan85 · 06-05-2021 5:06pm

What is the demand for Computer Science teachers like? I'm starting PME with Maths and Accounting/Business in DCU in September, but they've emailed to say CS is now available also which I've the credits for and 12 years in industry also. I'd prefer to teach CS over Business and Accounting.

Leftwaffe · 06-05-2021 6:07pm

stiofan85 wrote: »

What is the demand for Computer Science teachers like? I'm starting PME with Maths and Accounting/Business in DCU in September, but they've emailed to say CS is now available also which I've the credits for and 12 years in industry also. I'd prefer to teach CS over Business and Accounting.

It depends on the school. I’m already in a school and there will be greater demand in the coming years. Majority of schools don’t offer it I’d imagine?

rainbowtrout · 08-05-2021 10:01am

stiofan85 wrote: »

What is the demand for Computer Science teachers like? I'm starting PME with Maths and Accounting/Business in DCU in September, but they've emailed to say CS is now available also which I've the credits for and 12 years in industry also. I'd prefer to teach CS over Business and Accounting.

Phase 3 of the pilot scheme has started. Schools can’t just decide to offer Computer Science. They have to apply to be part of the pilot scheme. My school is one of those this year. I’m sure that will change in the future. I would say demand will remain low for a number of years until it becomes widely offered if other schools decide to offer it. Any school that offers it through the pilot scheme does so because they already have a teacher in place willing to teach it.

stiofan85 · 10-05-2021 9:24am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Phase 3 of the pilot scheme has started. Schools can’t just decide to offer Computer Science. They have to apply to be part of the pilot scheme. My school is one of those this year. I’m sure that will change in the future. I would say demand will remain low for a number of years until it becomes widely offered if other schools decide to offer it. Any school that offers it through the pilot scheme does so because they already have a teacher in place willing to teach it.

Thanks for this I'll stick with Biz/Accounting for the PME - If the school I'm in wants to spin it up then I can look at it down the line. Would be great to see programming landing at younger ages, opens a lot of doors career-wise.

Treppen · 10-05-2021 4:29pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Phase 3 of the pilot scheme has started. Schools can’t just decide to offer Computer Science. They have to apply to be part of the pilot scheme. My school is one of those this year. I’m sure that will change in the future. I would say demand will remain low for a number of years until it becomes widely offered if other schools decide to offer it. Any school that offers it through the pilot scheme does so because they already have a teacher in place willing to teach it.

That's currently under debate at the moment.
Any student can sit any exam paper they like. Pilot or no pilot.
So why can't any school offer it?

trihead · 10-05-2021 4:51pm

I would see if you can take a second methodology in DCU. You would have a much better chance of securing a post with 2 subjects. If DCU say no which they might due to scheduling (Methodologies might be on the same night for both computer science and Business) you will still be able to register for computer science as a second subject once you have the credits in your degree which you sounds like you do.

There are some hours in CS in schools and I imagine this will increase as more and more schools apply to run it. Look at https://www.educationposts.ie/posts/second_level?sb=application_closing_date&sd=0&p=1&cy=&pd=&vc=&pt=&s%5B%5D=80

rainbowtrout · 10-05-2021 5:38pm

Treppen wrote: »

That's currently under debate at the moment.
Any student can sit any exam paper they like. Pilot or no pilot.
So why can't any school offer it?

I'm just detailing my experience. Some of my current LC physics class wanted to do it last year and one of them emailed the SEC and was told no because they weren't in a pilot school. They went as far as getting local TDs to follow up on it.

It was always my understanding that subjects offered on a pilot basis were only offered to students in those schools until it's offered nationally.

We are a pilot school this year and will be offering it to fifth years.

teach_Lig · 06-07-2023 11:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116660752#Comment_116660752

Hi all,

I'm hoping to have computer science added to my registration. I recently completed a higher diploma in Software Design and Development which awarded me 60 ECTS. When applying for registration for an additional subject it says you must fulfil all of the criteria, the one that is standing out for me as a potential issue is:

(c) "The qualifying degree must carry at least 180 ECTS (European Credit Transfer System) credits (or equivalent) with the specific study of Computer Science comprising at least 60 ECTS credits (or equivalent)."

Does anyone know if that first part (180 ECT credits) is taking into account when adding additional subjects or is it more so for when you are registering for your initial subject on qualification? I'm hoping the second "specific study..60 ECT credit" part is deciding factor

To the best of my knowledge, none of the available postgraduate courses would award the 180 credits, the "Science in Computing for Educators" in LYIT awards 140 ECTS and even if I were to complete a master in computer science, I would still be well short of the 180 ECT.

Any advice much appreciated

rainbowtrout · 14-07-2023 4:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120812582#Comment_120812582

Usually the TC are looking for 60 credits from a recognised degree. For add ons, they are usually specific courses that have been designed with upskilling in mind and are recognised by the TC. I have a Grad Dip in Computing and I'm just finishing an MSc in Software Engineering, and according to TC rules I am not qualified to teach Computer Science.

tscul32 · 01-08-2023 1:51pm

To become a teacher initially you must satisfy the criteria for at least one subject. So if you were to start from scratch as a CS teacher you would need a 180 credit degree with at least 60 credits in CS and also to satisfy the module criteria.

However as an already qualified teacher you only need the 60 credits and modules to add CS to your subjects.

I want to do the PME next year and have a level 8 degree in CS and Software Engineering. However my course pre dates the ECTS (90's). So even though I have the credits (retrospectively applied) I cannot provide any proof of modules. The TC would not advise. So I decided to do the LYIT course listed above to box tick the modules. I'm 4 modules in so far with two more later this year. My co students were all teachers who are doing the course to add CS as a subject. They offer 14 different modules and you can do as many as you want. Most go for the 4(I think) TC compulsory modules and then select another 2 to get the 60 credits. Once you've done 6 modules you can also get the higher diploma. The modules are €200 each and done online.

I know I've experience in the area but i think the course is pretty lightweight, basically an introduction to most of the topics. But that's all you need for the TC certification if you're already a qualified teacher.

g g murpho · 11-08-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/116652183#Comment_116652183

Worth it though if it makes you less “disposable”. 7 grand is a pittance in the grand scheme if it’s what you really want to do.

You’ll even make it back with next years pay scale step.

Always follow what makes you happy.

Notorious · 17-08-2023 10:46am

Just to add a note for anyone thinking of completing a course.

I completed a hDip in Software Development from DCU after my ETB put out a rallying call for teachers interested in becoming qualified in CS. I teach programming to FE students and thought I’d benefit from having the qualification. Thankfully I’ve no intention of teaching programming to second level students.

The teaching council won’t recognise the course I completed even though it meets all criteria required to become a registered teacher in a subject. The council won’t explain their reasoning and refuse to discuss the matter with me. I’ve been arguing my case on and off since 2018.

I think the tl;dr here is that the Teaching Council are jerks.

Treppen · 17-08-2023 6:22pm

Can confirm... Total jerks.

TheValeyard · 26-08-2023 6:31pm

Agreed. Teaching council is simply a quango for the boys

am_zarathustra · 27-08-2023 10:07am

It's the same with engineers and maths, absolutly ridiculous. We will throw business and science teachers with minimal maths into JC class because they have another subject but not engineers because the teaching council doesn't understand that a mechanical engineer is more than capable of teaching simultaneous equations.

Realistically schools do what they like once you have a hirable subject, I know plenty of teachers hardly teaching any hours in their core subjects but the TC are hell bent on keeping well educated people out. And accumulating millions!

Adding Computer Science as Teaching Subject

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