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23-01-2021, 23:05   #46
Sam Russell
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Same conclusion. It's a rational response. Half a viable company is better than saying nothing and the company closing.
Basically it is a fulfilment centre. He sends a truck over filed with his £25 boxes, and one cert, and the centre then sends them out as requested.

He needn't even own the centre. It could be operated by a logistics company like Amazon.
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23-01-2021, 23:55   #47
peter kern
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Neither the UK nor Ukraine have a customs union deal with the EU. They have trade agreements.

Ukraine indirectly comes under the CJEU's jurisdiction rather than directly, and only in a very limited way for the purposes of its Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Agreement with the EU (DCFTA).

Under this agreement, Ukraine has agreed to abide by and implement many of the Single Market rules.

The Single Market is a union too, but for regulations rather than tariffs.

Being in the Single Market, or implementing its rules, means you are covered by one set of rules which are valid in all the countries that implement those rules.

This makes trade much easier.

Imagine you make soap in France and export it to all the other countries in the EU.

Within the Single Market, there is one set of rules, the Cosmetics Regulation, that govern safety standards for the production of cosmetic products, including soap, which includes rules about what ingredients you can and cannot use in soap.

Without a Single Market, each of the 27 EU countries could have different safety standards for soap, with different rules about what ingredients you can and cannot use in soap.

That would make trading far more difficult as you would have to know and comply with 27 sets of rules if you wanted to sell your soap in all 27 countries.

In the Single Market you only have to know and comply with one set of rules and once your soap is approved for sale in France, it's approved for sale in all 27 EU countries, plus the other Single Market countries that are not in the EU.

Ukraine is not in the EU and not in the Single Market, but it does implement Single Market type rules in some sectors and accepts indirect CJEU jurisdiction in effect. This makes it easier to export the Ukranian goods covered to the EU.

In many cases, especially where goods are highly regulated and tariffs are low or abolished, having the same regulations is better than having no tariffs.

For example, the Cheese Guy (see up thread) can send his cheese to the EU without his customers having to pay import tariffs. This would also be the case if the UK had a customs union with the EU that covered processed agricultural products, like Turkey has.

But outside the Single Market, he has to pay for an Export Health Certificate to prove that his cheese meets EU standards. The cost of these is £180 per certificate in Britain.

That's not too bad if he's sending a truck load of cheese worth £18,000 to the EU as you only need one certificate per consignment.

But he also needs one certifucate per consigment when he sends a customer a gift pack of cheese worth £25.00.

The fact that rhere are no import tariffs for his customers, and wouldn't be in a Turkey-EU style customs union between the UK and the EU, doesn't help him in this situation.

So a customs union alone, let alone a trade agreement that abolishes tariffs, isn't enough to remove all barriers to trade.

Non-tariff barriers, such as having different product standards, or having to provide certification for exports, can be even more expensive than tariffs.

It's one of the major reasons behind the creation of the Single Market.

The EEC had implemented a customs union between its members by the late 1960s (there was a transitional period from its foundation in 1957) but there were still too many non-tariff barriers to trade between member states.

So the Single Market, implemented from 1993, abolished most of them and continues to abolish any remaining ones, mainly through regulatory harmonisation, having one set of rules applicable throughout the Single Market.

Ukraine isn't in the Single Market but it aligns with it closely enough under its DCFTA provisions to make trade with the EU easier than just abolishing tariffs or having a customs union does.
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24-01-2021, 00:56   #48
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Covid has made shipping from China more expensive. But Brexit adds to that. It could be understood if it was protectionism, but most UK manufacturing offshored yonks ago.
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One shipping line recently offered freight rates of $12,050 for a 40ft container from China to Southampton, but charged just $8,450 for the same container to travel from China to Rotterdam, Hamburg, or Antwerp.
...
"Most of the carriers just don't want UK cargo because of the issues when the vessels dock, so mainly they're favouring European ports and we are having to truck containers over," said freight forwarder Craig Poole.

He said that adds a cost of up to £2,000 per container, and takes an extra seven to ten days to reach the delivery point in the UK.

For business-owners like Helen White, the difficulties affecting the shipping industry can't be solved quickly enough.

"Lots of little start-ups are really hurting," she said. "It has been paired with logistical nightmares across Europe as well. It just feels like logistics is falling apart at the moment. It's hard to see where the resolution is."
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24-01-2021, 09:55   #49
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Are there any statistics showing what proportion of Irish citizens have taken advantage of free movement, other than to go to the UK? It would be interesting to compare that to the proportion of UK citizens who did the same, other than to go to Ireland.
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24-01-2021, 10:12   #50
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Are there any statistics showing what proportion of Irish citizens have taken advantage of free movement, other than to go to the UK? It would be interesting to compare that to the proportion of UK citizens who did the same, other than to go to Ireland.
If we are talking about people going to work I would say the Irish would outweigh the English in most places except maybe Germany. But that's just going on my own experiences.

Retiring to the Mediterranean would be a different story I would say though
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24-01-2021, 10:22   #51
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Are there any statistics showing what proportion of Irish citizens have taken advantage of free movement, other than to go to the UK? It would be interesting to compare that to the proportion of UK citizens who did the same, other than to go to Ireland.
There are more Brits in EU nations than any other nationalities across the EU 27.

Which is why it's more odd they've killed fom because they were the biggest users
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24-01-2021, 10:39   #52
Sam Russell
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Midnight View Post
Covid has made shipping from China more expensive. But Brexit adds to that. It could be understood if it was protectionism, but most UK manufacturing offshored yonks ago.
Quote:
One shipping line recently offered freight rates of $12,050 for a 40ft container from China to Southampton, but charged just $8,450 for the same container to travel from China to Rotterdam, Hamburg, or Antwerp.
...
"Most of the carriers just don't want UK cargo because of the issues when the vessels dock, so mainly they're favouring European ports and we are having to truck containers over," said freight forwarder Craig Poole.

He said that adds a cost of up to £2,000 per container, and takes an extra seven to ten days to reach the delivery point in the UK.

For business-owners like Helen White, the difficulties affecting the shipping industry can't be solved quickly enough.

"Lots of little start-ups are really hurting," she said. "It has been paired with logistical nightmares across Europe as well. It just feels like logistics is falling apart at the moment. It's hard to see where the resolution is."
I would have thought the resolution is obvious enough. Rejoin the SM or CU or both - PDQ.
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24-01-2021, 10:41   #53
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I would have thought the resolution is obvious enough. Rejoin the SM or CU or both - PDQ.
This Tory government will never do that. They'd rather see the place burn to the ground and rule the ashes than admit that their hard Brexit was a mistake.
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24-01-2021, 10:43   #54
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Originally Posted by listermint View Post
There are more Brits in EU nations than any other nationalities across the EU 27.

Which is why it's more odd they've killed fom because they were the biggest users
Would you have a source for that? I'd be quite interested.

As for those who voted to leave, they tended to not be the sort of people who used free movement beyond the odd holiday with the notable of villa owners in Spain.
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24-01-2021, 10:46   #55
breezy1985
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There are more Brits in EU nations than any other nationalities across the EU 27.

Which is why it's more odd they've killed fom because they were the biggest users
More Brits or more Brits per head of population. You would expect them to be at least near the top of it's just simple numbers
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24-01-2021, 10:49   #56
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More Brits or more Brits per head of population. You would expect them to be at least near the top of it's just simple numbers
I found this:

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In 2019, according to UN data, 1.3 million people born in the UK lived in EU countries. Spain hosted the largest group, at 302,000, followed by Ireland, with 293,000. France was third with 177,000, Germany was fourth with 99,000 and Italy was fifth with 66,000.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-facts/how-...ive-in-the-eu/

Surely, the citizens of some other nation have more citizens in other EU countries than this?

I suppose it's a mark of how farcical this whole project is that the government telling firms to set up in the EU is barely newsworthy.
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24-01-2021, 10:55   #57
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I found this:



https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-facts/how-...ive-in-the-eu/

Surely, the citizens of some other nation have more citizens in other EU countries than this?

I suppose it's a mark of how farcical this whole project is that the government telling firms to set up in the EU is barely newsworthy.
However, Ornua set up a cheese packing plant in the UK so the Wexford cheese I buy in Tescos in Ireland is packed in the UK. Of course that dates to before the Brexit agreement.

I am not sure what will happen in the future, but the cheese maker in the UK could set up a packing plant in Normandy.
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24-01-2021, 11:00   #58
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I found this:



https://ukandeu.ac.uk/the-facts/how-...ive-in-the-eu/

Surely, the citizens of some other nation have more citizens in other EU countries than this?
Well I thought there were once more than a million Poles in the UK alone? Of course a lot of them have left.

What I'm really interested in is the proportion of people who have taken advantage of free movement at any time, so they might have gone back to the UK or Ireland. I guess this is harder to calculate. The only figure I've seen regarding the UK is that approximately 1 in 60 people have taken advantage of free movement which seems really low, especially if it includes Ireland.
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24-01-2021, 11:01   #59
ancapailldorcha
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However, Ornua set up a cheese packing plant in the UK so the Wexford cheese I buy in Tescos in Ireland is packed in the UK. Of course that dates to before the Brexit agreement.

I am not sure what will happen in the future, but the cheese maker in the UK could set up a packing plant in Normandy.
Could they not just set up in Ireland for shorter supply chains or are they looking to cut delivery costs to bigger continental markets?

Poland has apparently the most expats in EU countries based on admittedly old data:



The UK has more citizens living abroad of any EU country but this includes non-EU nations:



https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/...he%20UK%20does.
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24-01-2021, 11:09   #60
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Could they not just set up in Ireland for shorter supply chains or are they looking to cut delivery costs to bigger continental markets?

Poland has apparently the most expats in EU countries based on admittedly old data:



The UK has more citizens living abroad of any EU country but this includes non-EU nations:



https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/...he%20UK%20does.
Portugal aside, Ireland has more people living abroad per capita than any other country in that graphic. Its rate is nearly 2.5 times that of the UK.
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