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Flybe on the brink of collapse

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Comments

  • #2
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Sad news hope it doesn’t happen, it would have a big impact in Belfast City airport and Knock airport


  • #3
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    Sounds like one of the new investors could be getting cold feet after seeing just now dire things are behind the scenes at Flybe.

    A real shame if it does collapse, the staff have had a really tough couple of years so I feel for them the most.


  • #4
    irishkopite93
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭irishkopite93


    I wonder if this implicates Stobart under the Connect Airways umbrella set up last year.

    Were both airlines kept separate financially and operationally? Or if Flybe collapses does it bring Stobart with it?


  • #5
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    irishkopite93 wrote: »
    I wonder if this implicates Stobart under the Connect Airways umbrella set up last year.

    Were both airlines kept separate financially and operationally? Or if Flybe collapses does it bring Stobart with it?

    No they’re separate companies, Stobart actually own part of Flybe but are run entirely as a separate company


  • #6
    MoonUnit75
    Registered Users Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭MoonUnit75


    Is LoganAir still connected to Flybe in some way?


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  • #7
    irishkopite93
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭irishkopite93


    Locker10a wrote: »
    No they’re separate companies, Stobart actually own part of Flybe but are run entirely as a separate company

    So profits and losses are kept entirely separate? I knew they operated separately under their individual AOC's but I wasn't sure how it worked financially.

    Just to clarify Stobart in my original post referred to Stobart Air (ex Aer Arann) and not Stobart group.


  • #8
    King Mog
    Site Banned Posts: 7 ✭King Mog


    Isle of Mann will be hit bad !


  • #9
    Boredstiff666
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Boredstiff666


    Everybody who flies into Knock always pulls out or gets into trouble.


  • #10
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Boredstiff666 wrote: »
    Everybody who flies into Knock always pulls out or gets into trouble.

    Well the other two long term airlines serving Knock are Ryanair and Aer Lingus, no sign of trouble there .... so


  • #11
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    irishkopite93 wrote: »
    So profits and losses are kept entirely separate? I knew they operated separately under their individual AOC's but I wasn't sure how it worked financially.

    Just to clarify Stobart in my original post referred to Stobart Air (ex Aer Arann) and not Stobart group.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/irish/stobart-air-soars-as-profits-reach-3-3m-37730976.html


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  • #12
    redarmyblues
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    Just booked with them last week due a wedding in Edinburgh, paid the accommodation last night, work up to this news today.


  • #13
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    They’ve been bailed out by UK government

    “Cabinet trio to thrash out £100m Flybe rescue package”

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/cabinet-trio-to-thrash-out-100m-flybe-rescue-package-11908144


  • #14
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    redarmyblues wrote: »
    Just booked with them last week due a wedding in Edinburgh, paid the accommodation last night, work up to this news today.

    Hav a trip to take the kids to Peppa Pig world (Southampton) in March. Paid with credit card so of they collapse should get money back (have credit card insurance too).

    Selfishly if they are going to collapse I hope they go quickly so we can make alternative arrangements before things get expensive.

    Obviously not nice for staff, will be a killer for provincial.UK if they close too. Hopefully for everyones sake it can be saved and that happens quickly so staff can have peace of mind re their future.


  • #15
    Locker10a
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭Locker10a


    Fireball81 wrote: »
    Hav a trip to take the kids to Peppa Pig world (Southampton) in March. Paid with credit card so of they collapse should get money back (have credit card insurance too).

    Selfishly if they are going to collapse I hope they go quickly so we can make alternative arrangements before things get expensive.

    Obviously not nice for staff, will be a killer for provincial.UK if they close too. Hopefully for everyones sake it can be saved and that happens quickly so staff can have peace of mind re their future.

    As above they’ve been bailed out it seems so you’re travel in March should be fine


  • #16
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    So can the UK government rescue a company like that while in the eu or is this specifically possible due to leaving the eu?


  • #17
    Fireball81
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Fireball81


    Locker10a wrote: »
    As above they’ve been bailed out it seems so you’re travel in March should be fine

    Holding back the govt tax, thought that idea half been ruled out - if i's approved hopefully it gives the airline some breathing space.


  • #18
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    mickdw wrote: »
    So can the UK government rescue a company like that while in the eu or is this specifically possible due to leaving the eu?

    You always could, but there is a cap at 150 million euro I think, and it will need EU approval.

    Airlines when going under generally owe an awful lot more so the provision is not used often, Flybe has a future, its the legacy financial baggage which is dragging it down, very different to Thomas Cook which was simply unable to trade at a profit


  • #19
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,260 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    You always could, but there is a cap at 150 million euro

    Thanks. I didn't know that. I thought state aid was very closely controlled within the EU to keep a level playing field.


  • #20
    Nijmegen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    mickdw wrote: »
    Thanks. I didn't know that. I thought state aid was very closely controlled within the EU to keep a level playing field.

    I’d bet in any event that any grumbling from the EU with “Independence Day” around the corner would be met with some of the gestures you see between fans at football matches. The EU has long known how to turn a blind eye to (or just re-invent) its own rules when it suits politically.


  • #21
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    mickdw wrote: »
    Thanks. I didn't know that. I thought state aid was very closely controlled within the EU to keep a level playing field.

    Rules are for the little people.
    Guidelines are for governments


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  • #22
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    The level of support required by the British Government is considerable, I've heard of tax payments being deferred a few months but three years?! No doubt this bailout will be given due to Flybe's "strategic importance" to the UK but once it happens, it'll be up to Virgin/Stobart to steady the ship and I personally don't have much faith in either.


  • #23
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    It’s the regional route network that is strategically important as opposed to Flybe itself - the problem is that there are few alternative companies around.

    If Flybe were to go under, regional connectivity would be rendered almost non-existent.

    Too many eggs in one basket springs to mind.


  • #24
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Wouldn't be surprised if the bailout gets challenged under state aid rules although there's not much time for the EU to enforce them.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    devnull wrote: »
    Wouldn't be surprised if the bailout gets challenged under state aid rules although there's not much time for the EU to enforce them.

    I would imagine FlyBe are classed as a special case, similar to Aer Arran. Some of the islands they fly to depend heavily on their services.

    Edit: that of course is Logainair, although FlyBe has a few routes that could be classed as PSO, it looks like it could be challenged alright.


  • #26
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,344 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    devnull wrote: »
    Wouldn't be surprised if the bailout gets challenged under state aid rules although there's not much time for the EU to enforce them.


    https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1217422242742665216

    Didn’t take long


  • #27
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,610 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Aegir wrote: »
    I would imagine FlyBe are classed as a special case, similar to Aer Arran. Some of the islands they fly to depend heavily on their services.

    Edit: that of course is Logainair, although FlyBe has a few routes that could be classed as PSO, it looks like it could be challenged alright.

    Flybe has the Newquay PSO but I think that's it. The only longer distance PSOs in the UK are Newquay, Dundee and Derry to London; and Angelsey to Cardiff.


  • #28
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    devnull wrote: »
    Wouldn't be surprised if the bailout gets challenged under state aid rules although there's not much time for the EU to enforce them.

    If that’s successful it will surely lead to a significant number of their routes being classed as PSO.


  • #29
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,610 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    If that’s successful it will surely lead to a significant number of their routes being classed as PSO.

    Would then need to be tendered; but who else has the AOC and the aircraft to bother? Eastern has very limited capacity and relies on BE for sales!


  • #30
    redarmyblues
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭redarmyblues


    devnull wrote: »
    Wouldn't be surprised if the bailout gets challenged under state aid rules although there's not much time for the EU to enforce them.
    UK access to EU air space post Brexit is the gift of the EU so if the EU sees state aid they won't get access.


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  • #31
    cson
    Registered Users Posts: 14,400 ✭✭✭✭cson


    Isn't it just deferral of a tax bill rather than a write off?


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