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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

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Comments

  • #92
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    professore wrote: »
    That's not bad at all for a starting salary.

    It's peanuts.
    The laundry room position will still be stuck down at that level several years hence.

    People with skills have to tolerate paltry 'starting salaries' for some reason, whereas general operatives get paid for the work they do.

    Typical mendacious attitude of the begrudger.


    .


  • #93
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Someday you might like to have nurses who are well paid and stress free if you are sick in hospital.I'm sure you would like to have the best possible care if you ever become a patient in a hospital ward.
    The point they are making is under the current pay and working conditions it is extremely hard to recruit new graduates into the HSE,leaving all hospitals short staffed and creating stress and danger to existing staff and also to patients.Extra beds are needed in every hospital in the country,that means more staff.Then there is the appalling situation of the HSE spending millions on agency staff every year.I could go on.

    I think that one of the best ways to reduce any stress the nurses are under is for them to work 8 hour days. This 13 hour day malarkey is beyond ridiculous. How can they expect to give the same level of care towards the end of a 13 hour shift as they can towards the end of an 8 hour one?


  • #95
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,316 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    There shouldn't be a pay increase outside of the already negotiated agreements.
    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.
    Average is a common word for three different terms. Mean, Median and mode.
    While the mean (the gross sum of all earners divided by the number of earners) is useful, it can be distorted by outliers.


    I'd suspect the mean is 55k as quoted but this includes all managers etc, whereas the median would give a better position of the middle value earner. Probably low 30s


    Mike9832 wrote: »
    Should give it to the care assistants eg slaves



    I agree, my partner was a care assistant for years and the crap (literal and figurative) that is thrown at them is ridiculous. If you're directly employed by the HSE then you are on the relative gravy train of HSE PS wage scales, but if you are employed by an agency (eg Bluebird Care, comfortkeepers etc) then you are likely just above minimum wage).
    She had to give it up due to physical and mental issues directly caused by the job, and now works in an office job for substantially more pay and a 9-5 mon-friday working life.

    After hearing tales of what happened to her and her colleagues , I admire the work done by these healthcare professionals, couldnt do the job myself even if I was on double my wages.


  • #96
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 44,969 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    They want more money yet they are giving out about conditions and worried about patients safety?

    Which is it, surely they should want the extra money spent on recruitment if they are giving out about staff shortages?

    More union greed, where will it end?

    Another bankrupt country in a few years.

    They can't get staff cause the wages are too low, far better money in England for example. Strugglign to bring in foreign staff (a backbone of the sector) for the same reason, many are going to Australia or America where possible cause the money is better.

    There is a recruitment drive, and loads of positions available, but if your conditions aren't attactive you will struggle to fill the positions.

    As for Union greed... lol. Nurses are woefully underpaid based on time to qualification, responsibilities and working hours. Nursing is an undervalued public service role.


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  • #97
    marvin80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭marvin80


    Deise Vu wrote: »
    Of course they will get it. The irony is that after getting it, if Leo calls an election in the Autumn they will be out again.

    The budget plus income for the health service is €22bn, that’s €5k for every man, woman and child in the country. If nurses, by far the largest cohort in the health service are undermanned and under paid as claimed by their mouthpiece, where the fcuk is the money being spent?

    This post sums it up nicely:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108902382&postcount=3


  • #98
    Drumpot
    Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭Drumpot


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    They can't get staff cause the wages are too low, far better money in England for example. Strugglign to bring in foreign staff (a backbone of the sector) for the same reason, many are going to Australia or America where possible cause the money is better.

    There is a recruitment drive, and loads of positions available, but if your conditions aren't attactive you will struggle to fill the positions.

    As for Union greed... lol. Nurses are woefully underpaid based on time to qualification, responsibilities and working hours. Nursing is an undervalued public service role.

    Agree with this wholeheartedly. I’m not sure I can personally say what a nurse should be paid but I’ve seen ALOT of nureses in my job that when retired or coming up to retirement. They are usually mentally and/or emotionally scarred badly by what they have had to endure. The sh*t they have to put up from everybody, including doctors and bad managers is on its own an impressive example of how comited they are to to their jobs.

    It’s funny reading comments from people who probably don’t know much more then figures , political narratives and the media propaganda that loves to point the finger at the people at the bottom. It’s remarkable that those at the top of all things (companies, politics , public service) are generally excused or ignored when these sort of discussions come up. Perhaps wages of nurses is not the biggest waste of issue within the HSE, it’s just an easier way of publicly getting support to save a few pennies.

    I’ve heard stories from multiple sources on how the hse is run and it would make your skin crawl if you heard the truths. I know of examples of where a cheaper private alternative was offered that would save the taxpayers millions but a more expensive , less consumer friendly option was chosen simply because hospitaks didn’t want to lose any control over certain aspects of its patients care. I’ve heard of examples where hse sent special cases across to Britain instead of using an Irish alternative just because the person making the decision didn’t agree on the terms , even though it was cheaper to use the Irish service. These aren’t the skin crawling cases BTW! It’s a money pit of wastage , awful management and zero accountability/responsibility taken on any meaningful level. The nurses are the last people we should begrudge on any level TBH.


  • #99
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
    If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
    Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
    But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
    For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.


  • #100
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    I've heard the 55k figure trotted out a few times now and would love to know the source for it.

    Here is a link to the payscale https://www.inmo.ie/Salary_Information
    For staff nurse which would make up the majority of nursing staff the highest point on the scale is 45.7k, for the first level of manager the top is 53k.

    How then is the average figure 55k?

    I doubt it is an outright lie but it is far from representative of what most are getting.

    Just for comparison here is a teacher payscale https://www.into.ie/pay/PayScales/
    I don't think teachers have a particularly easy job like many do but I think that teachers are paid significantly more seems a bit mad. Both public sector jobs requiring a 4 year degree and to be fair teachers get great holidays. Even if the nurse payscale went some way closer to the teacher one I'm sure they would be happier.

    People say they know the salary before they start but thats not a reason to underpay someone, taking advantage of their passion for what is a pretty hard job.

    Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think that one of the best ways to reduce any stress the nurses are under is for them to work 8 hour days. This 13 hour day malarkey is beyond ridiculous. How can they expect to give the same level of care towards the end of a 13 hour shift as they can towards the end of an 8 hour one?
    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.


  • #101
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    road_high wrote: »
    Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
    If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
    Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
    But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
    For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.

    The most ill informed post in the whole thread.


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  • #102
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,201 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    I can foresee no outcome that involves the Government using our tax money to buy industrial-relations peace.


  • #103
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    They want more money yet they are giving out about conditions and worried about patients safety?

    Which is it, surely they should want the extra money spent on recruitment if they are giving out about staff shortages?

    More union greed, where will it end?

    Another bankrupt country in a few years.

    Greed?? Their argument is that because of the low wages, that nurses are qualifying here and going abroad for a better package leading to nurse shortages. The ones that are here do amazing work. They are doing the opposite of what most public workers did, ask for pay raises and telling the bosses to pay new recruits less. They deserve every penny they get. You could have all the doctors you want, but without nurses, hospitals won't function.


  • #104
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Padraig Mor wrote: »

    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to

    .

    Less handovers/changeovers too though , fair few errors happen due to end of shift


  • #105
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    The most ill informed post in the whole thread.

    And that's saying something.


  • #106
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    DS86DS wrote: »
    Nurses in this country are far to quick to complain. They have a good wage as well as plenty of public sector benefits as well as a cushy retirement plan in line with other public sector professions.

    If they are not happy with their calling in life, then there are others to fill the roll. And a nurses first priority should be in helping the sick, not holding the country to randsome.

    There isn't. Thats the point of the strike!!


  • #107
    Jude13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Jude13


    Again with PS jobs don't get hoodwinked by salary headlines, you need to compare the full package, pension contributions, leave, job security etc. It's all tosh.


  • #108
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Less handovers/changeovers too though , fair few errors happen due to end of shift

    It's been shown that 8 hour shifts compromise patient safety and it's harder to roster. IYou double the risk of hand over mistakes. Also it takes about a half hour to hand over too, so that's more time wasted.

    Most factories run similar shift setups for the same reason.


  • #109
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Jude13 wrote: »
    Again with PS jobs don't get hoodwinked by salary headlines, you need to compare the full package, pension contributions, leave, job security etc. It's all tosh.

    Give us the full package with which to compare ?


  • #110
    Jude13
    Registered Users Posts: 3,794 ✭✭✭Jude13


    So added to not comparing like with like, salaries not full remuneration (pension, time off etc) we can add the headline in vogue; If we get paid more patients will be safer.


  • #111
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,713 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    road_high wrote: »
    Find nurses and their media conduct absolutely draining to listen to. They all go on with the same Mother Theresa act- “underpaid and over worked”- seems the actual stats tell quite a different story.
    If they all hate their jobs so much, why don’t go they go do something else? Even better still do not sign up to it in the first place.
    Not one of them ever seems to have a solution to the various A&E crises etc- that’s what most of us in our professions do, see challenges and come up with ideas to solve them.
    But with nurses it’s always someone’s fault or issue to deal with. They’re a perfect example of when you get too many females working in one area, very little gets achieved apart from becoming eternal martyrs and whining.
    For the amount we spend on healthcare salaries, serious analysis needs to be undertaken on value for money and what many of them are actually doing.

    How much do you think someone should be paid to look after you, wash and dress you, lift you up, maybe wipe your own h*le if you can't do that?


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  • #112
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 44,969 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?


    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.
    My wife is on the top scale, has premium payments (pediatrics) and isn't bringing home 57k.


  • #113
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    My wife is on the top scale, has premium payments (pediatrics) and isn't bringing home 57k.

    Her gross figure is what, though ?


  • #114
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,519 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    It's been shown that 8 hour shifts compromise patient safety and it's harder to roster. IYou double the risk of hand over mistakes. Also it takes about a half hour to hand over too, so that's more time wasted.

    Most factories run similar shift setups for the same reason.


    I work in a factory doing shifts for years. I do about 12 hours with 30 min handover.

    It sounds like they do 13hours + handover?

    And regularly doing 7 nights in a row?

    To me this is a very extreme shift. 13.5 hour night shift is a long long long night.


  • #115
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Mitch Connor wrote: »
    My wife is on the top scale, has premium payments (pediatrics) and isn't bringing home 57k.

    You’d need to be on close to gross 100k to bring home 57k...


  • #116
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    How much do you think someone should be paid to look after you, wash and dress you, lift you up, maybe wipe your own h*le if you can't do that?

    The “caringness” in all it’s glory! The current salary rates are well paid and consumerate with the skills and qualification needed.
    If people have a problem with doing these tasks as part of their role (which they’re paid to do) then they really should have considered a different career from day one.


  • #117
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    road_high wrote: »
    You’d need to be on close to gross 100k to bring home 57k...

    But she isn't bringing home 57k, as we have been told.

    What kind of high-flying, problem-solving, go-getter professional are you, that you can't read properly ?

    :D


  • #118
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    Average staff nurse pay in Ireland is €57k as referenced in a Dail committee in the last few weeks. This includes premium payments which add - according to the unions themselves - approx 25% to the salary of the average nurse. The number of nurses (if any) on the 'plain' scale with no extras is tiny. I always find it amusing that people contort themselves to deny the simple truth that nurses in Ireland are paid very well. Or do they think that the Dept of Health are lying?

    I'd still like to see more details on where the 57k is coming from, as I said in my OP I'm sure the figure isn't a lie but that doesn't mean it isn't deceiving.
    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    They work 13 hour shifts because they want to - guaranteed premium payments, plus 3 or 4 days a week off. If I could work 3 x 13 hour days rather than 5 x 8, I'd jump at the chance.

    3 daily shifts would mean 3 x 9 hours shifts as need crossover for handover, thats an increase of ~4% in hours worked and so money that would have to be paid out. That along with the extra dangers in more handovers mean its not really their choice to work that way and the government are quite happy with it.


  • #119
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    road_high wrote: »
    The “caringness” in all it’s glory! The current salary rates are well paid and consumerate with the skills and qualification needed.
    If people have a problem with doing these tasks as part of their role (which they’re paid to do) then they really should have considered a different career from day one.

    Commensurate, surely ?

    I repeat my previous question...

    :D


  • #120
    NSAman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,386 ✭✭✭NSAman


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    How much do you think someone should be paid to look after you, wash and dress you, lift you up, maybe wipe your own h*le if you can't do that?

    That is IF they do that. The problem is (and this is from ACTUAL personal experience) they DO NOT do that.

    18 years looking after our father at home, washing, cleaning, shaving, feeding him as he was totally incapacitated. Never a bed sore, always happy, always fed.

    3 weeks in hospital, 3 bed sores, lost weight and the nurses actually faught us, when we took it in turns to feed him, change him and care for him properly. He was not turned by them, we found out his food was left on the table and no one fed him and he was not washed and left in his own **** for hours on end... yep all nurses are angels... NOT.


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  • #121
    Mitch Connor
    Registered Users Posts: 44,969 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Her gross figure is what, though ?

    less than 57k. When I say bring home I didn't mean Net pay, though i totally get it reads that way!

    And that is less than 57k earning pretty much as much as she can on 'normal hours' - ie. working her full time hours, with weekend and night pay as appropriate - but no extra shifts.


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