Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
09-11-2017, 13:19   #31
The_Valeyard
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 12,055
It could either be a great success or bring about economic ruination.

It will be very interesting to see how this trial goes. I will be watching with interest. But it is something we will have to examine. More and more machines will take the jobs of humans freeing up the population for more leisure or cultural activities.
The_Valeyard is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
09-11-2017, 13:19   #32
c_man
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,451
I wouldn't say no to free money.
c_man is offline  
Thanks from:
09-11-2017, 13:21   #33
A Little Pony
Banned
 
A Little Pony's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 3,871
The moment robots take over all labour jobs is the moment socialism would be rife due to no value in labour. The social impact would be enormous, the social interactions between people, the feeling of accomplishment and earning a wage. It is in the instincts of a lion to hunt than be given it.
A Little Pony is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:22   #34
david75
Banned
 
david75's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,553
Excellent 1 shot podcast talking to the people chosen to take part in the trial run of the scheme in Finland and how it’s impacted and changed their lives.
Explains the set up and process really well too

https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/...=1000392459910
david75 is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:22   #35
Phoebas
Registered User
 
Phoebas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8,147
There isn't a Universal basic income trial in Finland.

There is a basic income trial in Finland, but it isn't universal.
Phoebas is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
09-11-2017, 13:23   #36
server down
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Little Pony View Post
The moment robots take over all labour jobs is the moment socialism would be rife due to no value in labour. The social impact would be enormous, the social interactions between people, the feeling of accomplishment and earning a wage. It is in the instincts of a lion to hunt than be given it.
yes, I would worry about that too. It's not like unemployment makes people happy now and society is too atomised.
server down is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:27   #37
Andy From Sligo
Registered User
 
Andy From Sligo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Permabear View Post
This post has been deleted.
that will come in handy for him .. Bono is a bit skint lately ..
Andy From Sligo is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:29   #38
amcalester
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by server down View Post
Imagine a world where automation does 40% of jobs and will do 90% of jobs. And I dont mean that new jobs will be created in this scenario but that the unemployment rate will be 90%.

Yet we potentially have a very efficient AI driven society. The problem is that without money nobody guys anything, and without people buying anything the AI will in fact not be very useful. Actually either society will collapse or automation will be banned.

There are a few solutions here, a form of communism where the governments own the AI, and people get "according to their needs". I personally would not like that.

Alternatively a capitalism with UBI might work. How money is created could be the problem.
Surely if that were to happen then what is most valued by humans would be whatever is not possible to be done by AI, and this is where most people could be employed, the social sciences for example.
amcalester is online now  
09-11-2017, 13:29   #39
Andy From Sligo
Registered User
 
Andy From Sligo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by donegaLroad View Post
It's an interesting idea, what is the logic behind it I wonder?
something to do with automation/robots taking over menial jobs within the next 10 years in industry as well apparently. when robots take over boring, monotonous jobs will put a lot of people out of them jobs and they will have to avail of it
Andy From Sligo is offline  
Advertisement
09-11-2017, 13:30   #40
server down
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by amcalester View Post
Surely if that were to happen then what is most valued by humans would be whatever is not possible to be done by AI, and this is where most people could be employed, the social sciences for example.
yeh, well thats another form of UBI - government employment for all.
server down is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:33   #41
Andy From Sligo
Registered User
 
Andy From Sligo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 8,946
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEPT 23 1989 View Post
would that not be per week?
I had to do a double take on that - Ireland get 748 a month dont they? (im not on dole so i dont know)
Andy From Sligo is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:34   #42
Dohnjoe
Registered User
 
Dohnjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 3,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by server down View Post
Imagine a world where automation does 40% of jobs and will do 90% of jobs. And I dont mean that new jobs will be created in this scenario but that the unemployment rate will be 90%.
Indeed, but we can imagine it - it has been happening for hundreds of years. From the industrial revolution to widespread automation in the 70s and 80s.. yet despite all the thousands of professions wiped out and billions of workers replaced - we have e.g. 6% unemployment

Absolutely more automation and AI is coming and it is going to be a challenge, but potential "90%" unemployment future doomsday scenarios are not something economists are losing sleep over. It's likely to be fairly gradual and I'm sure we'll adapt.

In the highly unlikely event decent UBI does get adopted in my lifetime, I'm certainly quitting work and off to live like a king in some poor paradise with it
Dohnjoe is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:38   #43
server down
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dohnjoe View Post
Indeed, but we can imagine it - it has been happening for hundreds of years. From the industrial revolution to widespread automation in the 70s and 80s.. yet despite all the thousands of professions wiped out and billions of workers replaced - we have e.g. 6% unemployment
Except I asked you to imagine a society with 90% unemployment. That was a non-negotionable part of the thought expermiment. Its also the only situation where UBI would be really necessary. Its not needed now.

Quote:
Absolutely more automation and AI is coming and it is going to be a challenge, but potential "90%" unemployment future doomsday scenarios are not something economists are losing sleep over. It's likely to be fairly gradual and I'm sure we'll adapt.

In the highly unlikely event decent UBI does get adopted in my lifetime, I'm certainly quitting work and off to live like a king in some poor paradise with it
You can do that later on in life with your pension UBI, anyway, so just wait.
server down is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:41   #44
Timmaay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,803
Send a message via MSN to Timmaay
Interesting tedtalk about this recently :
Martin Ford: How we'll earn money in a future without jobs
https://go.ted.com/CX4e

Basically put conditions on the ubi, higher pay for increasing your level of education, community service etc etc. The idea of living my life on a dole alike ubi with no incentive to be productive etc to the world and therefore nothing meaningful to strive for sounds like utter hell ha, mental health is already a huge problem of this generation and just paying everyone to do nothing wouldn't help ha!
Timmaay is offline  
09-11-2017, 13:45   #45
server down
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmaay View Post
Interesting tedtalk about this recently :
Martin Ford: How we'll earn money in a future without jobs
https://go.ted.com/CX4e

Basically put conditions on the ubi, higher pay for increasing your level of education, community service etc etc. The idea of living my life on a dole alike ubi with no incentive to be productive etc to the world and therefore nothing meaningful to strive for sounds like utter hell ha, mental health is already a huge problem of this generation and just paying everyone to do nothing wouldn't help ha!
The bitcoin guys mine coin by using their machines to do something that is probably worthless to society ( although it may be worthwhile to Bit Coin). Anyway money is just created on machines.

The point of UBI is you dont have to be on the dole, you can work -- if there is any, or volunteer, or whatever. I havent seen any models that increase the payment for community service etc, that would be effectively payment for work. However you can make more money than the UBI by selling services that machines cant or its not worthwhile for them to do. A market economy would still exist.
server down is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet