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09-11-2017, 12:30   #16
SEPT 23 1989
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would that not be per week?
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09-11-2017, 12:32   #17
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Bono? Paying taxes?
Yes. Bono. Paying taxes.
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09-11-2017, 12:32   #18
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fairness and tackling a parasitic welfare culture.

I'd argue there's more evidence that shows industries such as the financial and corporate sectors are far more parasitic to society
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09-11-2017, 12:33   #19
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It's an interesting idea, what is the logic behind it I wonder?
The machines are taking the unskilled jobs.
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09-11-2017, 12:34   #20
 
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Excellent podcast on the Finnish experiment here:
https://99percentinvisible.org/episo...sh-experiment/

By all accounts, the Finnish social welfare system is very generous as it is. A man can easily sustain a life drinking cheap lager and hitting the bong hourly on it.
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09-11-2017, 12:40   #21
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Which in turn means it's paid for by the taxpayers, who pay for governments.
It's redistribution from the wealthy, who pay more tax, to the not-so-wealthy, who don't pay as much if any (depending on income). I don't have a problem with that.
It's a redistribution of money from the working to those who can't find work those who don't want to work

One of the many reasons why Switzerland overwhelmingly rejected the notion
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09-11-2017, 12:42   #22
 
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Finland government is trying out a pilot idea at the moment and are giving 2000 of its citizens a minimum of 560euro per month, no conditions, doesn't even matter if you find a job or not you will still continue to receive the 560euro.

What's your view?
It's stupid.

In a country of 5.5million people, choosing 2000 winners will have zero effect on tax rates. So the government is choosing 2000 winners, and no one will feel like a loser.

These winners will have extra cash to pay for rent and food, without driving up the cost of rent and food overall (those 2000 people aren't suddenly going to create a national shortage of rent and food).

So the pilot will appear to be successful. 2000 people are happier. It just won't prove anything.
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09-11-2017, 12:43   #23
 
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The only way for UBI to work is through some kind of money creation. Like QE, except for the peasants.
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09-11-2017, 12:52   #24
 
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It's a redistribution of money from the working to those who can't find work those who don't want to work

One of the many reasons why Switzerland overwhelmingly rejected the notion
No, its also for people who work. I mean, do some research. Also the term universal should be a clue.
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09-11-2017, 12:58   #25
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No, its also for people who work. I mean, do some research. Also the term universal should be a clue.
It's for "people who work" in the tiny Finnish trial

On a national level that would be a pyramid scheme. Earn a certain income, you'd be paying more in tax to cover UBI than you'd be receiving in UBI - therefore the working covering those who don't want to work
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09-11-2017, 12:59   #26
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We have had universal basic income in Ireland for years. We're way ahead of the curve
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09-11-2017, 13:00   #27
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The only way for UBI to work is through some kind of money creation. Like QE, except for the peasants.

Could Steve keens idea of government money creation be the solution?
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09-11-2017, 13:16   #28
Grayson
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Excellent podcast on the Finnish experiment here:
https://99percentinvisible.org/episo...sh-experiment/

By all accounts, the Finnish social welfare system is very generous as it is. A man can easily sustain a life drinking cheap lager and hitting the bong hourly on it.
How much is it? because a can of beer there costs €2.5 doesn't it. It's one of the most expensive places in europe to drink.
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09-11-2017, 13:17   #29
 
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Imagine a world where automation does 40% of jobs and will do 90% of jobs. And I dont mean that new jobs will be created in this scenario but that the unemployment rate will be 90%.

Yet we potentially have a very efficient AI driven society. The problem is that without money nobody guys anything, and without people buying anything the AI will in fact not be very useful. Actually either society will collapse or automation will be banned.

There are a few solutions here, a form of communism where the governments own the AI, and people get "according to their needs". I personally would not like that.

Alternatively a capitalism with UBI might work. How money is created could be the problem.
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09-11-2017, 13:18   #30
 
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Originally Posted by Dohnjoe View Post
It's for "people who work" in the tiny Finnish trial

On a national level that would be a pyramid scheme. Earn a certain income, you'd be paying more in tax to cover UBI than you'd be receiving in UBI - therefore the working covering those who don't want to work
Of course you will be paying more in tax on the higher levels but this would still be a universal benefit.
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