[tayto lover]

Originally Posted by DickSwiveller Returns

Ah, right. You should see if there are maidin caifés on in your town/village. They have been springing up all over the country. Basically, a group of people meet in a cafe and converse in Irish. My father attends one every day in different parts of Dublin and many of the people who attend are beginners. My dad also teaches a class for beginners in St Enda's Park in Rathfarnham - Pádraig Pearse's old haunt.

Thank you, I'll check that out and buy a few books to help me along.

[DickSwiveller Returns]

Originally Posted by tayto lover

Thank you, I'll check that out and buy a few books to help me along.

I just asked my dad - he was a teacher in the Gaelscoil in Ballymun for years until he retired- and he said a good book for beginners is progress in Irish by Máire Ní Ghráda.

[David Webb]

You could also buy the Turas Teanga book which is quite easy an comes with DVDs.

[Gumbi]

In my experience, teachers have been amenable to the use of dialectal language (vs the standard) in writing. Now, I wouldn't have a particularly rich dialectal vocabulary or use of verbs, but from time to time I'd say things like "ar an dtalamh" "do bhíodh teach ag..." "dheineas" etc. and I'd get away with it, but I imagine some teachers wouldn't be familiar with them all and might penalise them. I was quite lucky with my Irish teachers, frankly, going to a quality Gaelscoil made up mostly of native speakers (and being quite far from a Gaeltacht...) and other high quality speakers, and having a good teacher in secondary with immersive experience in a Gaeltacht.

[David Webb]

Originally Posted by Gumbi

In my experience, teachers have been amenable to the use of dialectal language (vs the standard) in writing. Now, I wouldn't have a particularly rich dialectal vocabulary or use of verbs, but from time to time I'd say things like "ar an dtalamh" "do bhíodh teach ag..." "dheineas" etc. and I'd get away with it, but I imagine some teachers wouldn't be familiar with them all and might penalise them. I was quite lucky with my Irish teachers, frankly, going to a quality Gaelscoil made up mostly of native speakers (and being quite far from a Gaeltacht...) and other high quality speakers, and having a good teacher in secondary with immersive experience in a Gaeltacht.

Gumbi, can you clear up authoritatively whether forms like dheineas are accepted in the Irish Junior and Higher Leaving Certificates? And how many works by Peadar Ua Laogaire, Tomás Ó Criomhthain, Peig Sayers, Máirtín Ó Caidhin, and the Grianna brothers did you read through in class in your Gaelscoil? It's not meant to be a trick question - I just want to know yes or no, if any of these were on your curriculum.

[Gumbi]

Originally Posted by David Webb

Gumbi, can you clear up authoritatively whether forms like dheineas are accepted in the Irish Junior and Higher Leaving Certificates? And how many works by Peadar Ua Laogaire, Tomás Ó Criomhthain, Peig Sayers, Máirtín Ó Caidhin, and the Grianna brothers did you read through in class in your Gaelscoil? It's not meant to be a trick question - I just want to know yes or no, if any of these were on your curriculum.

I am not aware of the official word on this (if there even is one).

None of those books on the curriculum for primary school students as far as I know, but we did read Séadna in fourth class. As for the Junior/Leaving Cert, I didn't go to a Gaelscoil, so I just did whatever the curriculum was.

[David Webb]

Well, Séadna is at least something, but unless you read a seanachló edition, you won't have got a 100% genuine edition.

[Achasanai]

Originally Posted by DickSwiveller Returns

I just asked my dad - he was a teacher in the Gaelscoil in Ballymun for years until he retired- and he said a good book for beginners is progress in Irish by Máire Ní Ghráda.

I'm working through this at the moment, and I really like it. It feels like a very gradual, and slow introduction to the language, but it actually moves very fast. The only problem with it is that it doesn't come with an audio or answers. If the person goes with this book, these links are a godsend for those of us with a very low level of Irish:


http://www.gaeilge.org/PII-ak.html (answers)

http://www.philo-celtic.com/PII/Progress.htm (audio)

[deirdremf]

Originally Posted by David Webb

Well, Séadna is at least something, but unless you read a seanachló edition, you won't have got a 100% genuine edition.

This kind of holier-than-thou comment is the sort of thing that turns people off Irish. (or anything else for that matter).

If that is your intention, go ahead.


Otherwise try to encourage people to speak/read/write what they can, and they will improve.

[Carawaystick]

Originally Posted by David Webb

No, Insect Overlord, a handy catch-all for exams could have picked a real Gaelthacht dialect. In fact Cork Irish was regarded as prestige dialect until the CO was brought in - and James Dillon leader of FG protested in the Dáil at the idea of the devising of a so-called standard by a handful of people that wasn't linked to what was considered good Irish in the Gaelthacht. Right from the beginning this was viewed as wrong.

It is certainly not that an teanga bheó is crude and vulgar - and some made-up thing made up by LEARNERS in DUBLIN is "high-style Irish". The CO is just plain wrong. Read the words of Peadar Ua Laoghaire and point to me the crudity and the vulgarity. Right from the beginning an arrogant bunch of learners have sought to take control of the language and they brutally kicked the language's native speakers to one side.

...

At this point, the Irish language movement should be seen for what they are - anti-Irish.

Considering the OP asked about first years at secondary school, its reasonable to assume that for written examples the CO is a reasonable standard to use, no more than expecting a first year student to write not in hiberno english or local dialect, but in standard british english

I couldnt see a strong argument for using yisser/youse/ye/y'all instead of you(pl) while writing a formal english exam
But its obvious not having a different form of the 2nd person pural, is a huge weakness in mouth speak.