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Storm Lorenzo: October 3/4 2019 **Technical Discussion Only**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Eyes down, NOAA3 Mission #7 is flying into the storm now. This is a live graph and updates every 10 minutes. The SFMR values are the surface winds.

    recon_NOAA3-WG13A-LORENZO_timeseries.png

    recon_NOAA3-WG13A-LORENZO.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    not too sure where Lorenzo goes at 120hr, it either goes over us or into europe but its hard to see, the pros can probs see though


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    ECM does not seem to want to occluded this system at all on approach to Ireland and seems to be placing the path of the storm similar to that of the Arpege.

    Yep seems to stay on warm side of jet and dissipate over Biscay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    not too sure where Lorenzo goes at 120hr, it either goes over us or into europe but its hard to see, the pros can probs see though

    Not really interacting with the polar jet stream at all on the ECM.

    Edit. You beat me to it!

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Oneiric 3 wrote: »
    ECM does not seem to want to occluded this system at all on approach to Ireland and seems to be placing the path of the storm similar to that of the Arpege.

    These systems usually turn into a Shapiro Keyser structure as opposed to the usual Norwegian structure. We probably wouldn't see the usual tailed occlusion wrapping back around.

    Conceptual-model-of-a-shapiro-Keyser-cyclone-showing-top-lower-tropospheric-eg-850.png


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    An alternative view of the NHC forecast. Most of the Azores should escape the 64-knot winds, mostly in the 34-50-kt range. Only the two westernmost islands of Horta and Flores (Santa Cruz) would get the brunt of the 80-ish knots in this case. On a Portuguese forum they are particularly worried about the wave heights.

    al132019.19092906.gif

    Latest water vapour

    20190929.1800.goes16.x.wv1km.13LLORENZO.125kts-938mb-255N-445W.100pc.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Here is where the UK Met have it by Wed:

    man3Rt0.gif

    As an aside, I have to say that these southern European names (Ophelia, Lorenzo etc)placed on Atlantic Hurricanes are so much more beautiful sounding than the usual named storms that are issued by M.E & UK Met.. like 'Barney', 'Maura' and 'Kitty' and so forth. These names just don't have the same ring to them at all.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Interesting to see the impact Lorenzo has on shipping in the vicinity



    XwFcKHq.png


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    ECM 12Z similar to the 0Z filling rapidly on approach well off the S and turning into Biscay / France. ARPEGE similar but looks stronger for longer and getting nearer the S before it turns off towards France.


    DRegfOl.png

    nyCSHgl.png

    KxYNoim.png

    nyCSHgl.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    josip wrote: »
    Interesting to see the impact Lorenzo has on shipping in the vicinity



    XwFcKHq.png

    It has already sunk one ship, the bourbon Rhode. 11 missing, 3 rescued.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    GFS still on a very similar track now for a number of runs staying well out W before being absorbed into another area of LP.

    Looks far stronger and larger than the ECM.


    Nlhwnb2.gif

    tT3vftW.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Jim Gazebo wrote: »
    It has already sunk one ship, the bourbon Rhode. 11 missing, 3 rescued.

    Oh, wasn't aware of that.
    One would have to ask how a tug came to be only 60 miles from the eye of Cat 4 hurricane.

    https://gcaptain.com/bourbon-rhode-sinks-in-the-atlantic-ocean-three-rescued/


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    GEM taking a similar route to what the ECM took a few runs back before it went more on a Southern track.

    48S5kRx.gif


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 11,817 Mod ✭✭✭✭Meteorite58


    UKMO like a carbon copy of ECM , complete miss , filling and dissipating whilst tracking into France .

    Such a split in the models .

    ICON nearer Ireland off the W on the latest run and looks very strong like the GFS.

    3eKwbMc.png

    6m1krWY.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    I watched both RTE and BBC forecasts for the week and there is no real urgency by either of them about Lorenzo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭Santy2015


    I watched both RTE and BBC forecasts for the week and there is no real urgency by either of them about Lorenzo.

    Was the exact same with Emma and Ophelia


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    Santy2015 wrote: »
    Was the exact same with Emma and Ophelia

    Rubbish


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,301 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    At first. When I saw the news reports & charts on Lorenzo on this thread today. I nearly said the words 'oooooh f*ck' out loud.

    The thing that shocked me when reading about it online was reading about the high wind speeds & the speed of the gusts associated with the storm. That had frightened me to my core because I never experienced a real full force hurricane in Ireland like this one before. Ophelia was not that bad when it was in Dublin 2 years ago. I had a look at the weather forecasts from RTÉ & BBC online in the last while. They are telling me that it may hit the UK & France while the path of it is being weakened, going on the current weather models here on boards, are showing a lot of encouragement to me to date that it could avoid Ireland altogether.

    Thanks to all who have provided this information on so far. It has really been fascinating to keep up with it.

    I will still keep watch of it for any updates if there is any substantial changes between now & then.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭ninebeanrows


    Looking at the postage stamps from the EC there are more members bringing something menacing to Ireland than I would have estimated before.

    Probably 5-7 / 50 members bring a nasty system into Ireland.

    So still 10-20% risk of something noteworthy tonight.

    Nothing sorted tonight.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I took the output from today's 4 SHIPS runs and plotted the intensity output (kt) of each valid for 6-hourly timeslots up to next Friday. There's a fairly large spread in the first 48 hours,especially between the 06Z and 18Z runs (18Z much lower), but after that they're fairly consistent on what they're giving for Wednesday onwards. The cells outlined in each show the closest point to Ireland.

    491880.png

    491882.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Santy2015 wrote: »
    Was the exact same with Emma and Ophelia

    Absolute nonsense. Ophelia in particular was called days in advance and there was much comment on here about warnings coming too early.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Latest microwave shows a double eyewall but totally open to the southwest.

    20190929.1835.f16.x.colorpct_91h_91v.13LLORENZO.105kts-950mb-264N-444W.097pc.jpg

    Current aircraft recon data only finding SFMR and dropsonde surface winds below 80 knots and central pressure 948 hPa. This dropsonde was released in the NE eyewall and found a surface wind of 73 knots. Latest satellite ADT estimate is around 95 knots. It could be weakening faster than expected now.

    recon_NOAA2-WF13A-LORENZO_dropsonde5_20190929-1814.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭JanuarySnowstor


    You get so much joy delivering bad news Gaoth it's actually quite funny lol...18z icon rolling now....let's see will it move towards the euros


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,355 ✭✭✭Jim Gazebo


    josip wrote: »
    Oh, wasn't aware of that.
    One would have to ask how a tug came to be only 60 miles from the eye of Cat 4 hurricane.

    https://gcaptain.com/bourbon-rhode-sinks-in-the-atlantic-ocean-three-rescued/

    On a passage like that you constantly watch the charts and this was highlighted a long time. To sail into it on any vessel was a very short sighted move. I hope it wasn't commercial pressure :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Latest NHC update. Weakening quickly (now Cat 3 but very shortly will be Cat 2 and no longer a major hurricane) and they have adjusted their official track to the west also.

    cdc35a04880429fa5a409b578b10a15c.png
    000
    WTNT43 KNHC 292045
    TCDAT3

    Hurricane Lorenzo Discussion Number 30
    NWS National Hurricane Center Miami FL AL132019
    500 PM AST Sun Sep 29 2019

    The cloud pattern has continued to degrade throughout the day with
    cold cloud tops filling in the eye, with a gradual erosion of the
    convection over the southwest quadrant. A recent AMSR2 pass confirms
    that the eyewall is indeed open on the western side, and suggests
    there may be another eyewall replacement cycle occurring. The NOAA
    Hurricane Hunters are currently performing multiple experimental
    flights inside and around Lorenzo, and are providing NHC with
    valuable data. The wind data from the SFMR are indicating that the
    hurricane-force winds extend outward farther than previously
    thought, about 60-70 n mi from the center in all quadrants. The
    aircraft also reported an adjusted minimum central pressure of 948
    mb, a peak flight level wind of 99 kt, and an image capture from an
    on-board radar that confirmed the break in the eyewall. The
    available objective and subjective intensity estimates range from
    102 kt to 114 kt. Based on a compromise of these data, the initial
    intensity has been set at 100 kt, but this may be a little generous
    given much lower dropsonde wind speeds measured by the aircraft.

    Lorenzo continues north-northeastward at 9 kt through a weakness in
    the subtropical ridge. A mid-latitude trough will approach Lorenzo
    from the west in a couple of days. Increasing southwesterly flow
    ahead of the trough will force the hurricane to turn northeastward
    and accelerate beginning on Monday. The forecast track confidence
    remains very high through 48 hours, and the new forecast is
    essentially an update of the previous one. By 72 hours, the guidance
    continues to diverge significantly, likely due to how they are
    handling the interaction between Lorenzo and a larger extratropical
    cyclone to its north late in the forecast period. The ECMWF/UKMET do
    not have Lorenzo being absorbed into the larger low. Instead, they
    track Lorenzo to the east-northeast toward Europe ahead of the
    associated upper trough. The rest of the guidance has Lorenzo
    absorbed into the low several hundred miles west of the British
    Isles. The forecast track confidence remains low beyond 72 hours,
    and was nudged just a little to the left from the previous advisory.

    The aircraft near-surface dropsonde data suggests that Lorenzo is
    moving over cooler waters of 24-25 degrees C, a few degrees cooler
    than model guidance indicates, due to the upwelling of the waters
    with lower oceanic heat content. The environmental conditions
    for the next 48 hours are characterized by moderate southwesterly
    shear, decent moisture, and strong upper-level divergence. Due to
    the presence of the shear and cooler waters, gradual weakening is
    anticipated for the next couple of days. By 72 hours, much stronger
    shear and the interaction with the approaching mid-latitude trough
    should cause the cyclone to weaken at a faster rate and begin to
    transition to an extratropical cyclone. By 96 hours or so,
    extratropical transition is expected to be complete. The official
    intensity forecast was adjusted lower than the previous one
    through 48 hours, and then is similar thereafter. This solution is
    near the various multimodel consensus aids.


    Key Messages:

    1. Lorenzo is a large and powerful hurricane, and its hurricane-
    and tropical-storm-force wind fields are expected to expand further
    during the next several days. Regardless of Lorenzo's exact track
    near the Azores, strong winds are becoming increasingly likely on
    those islands Tuesday night and Wednesday, and residents there
    should monitor the progress of the hurricane. Watches could be
    issued for those islands later today or tonight.

    2. Large swells generated by Lorenzo will continue to spread across
    much of the north Atlantic basin during the next few days. These
    swells will produce life-threatening surf and rip currents.


    FORECAST POSITIONS AND MAX WINDS

    INIT 29/2100Z 26.9N 44.2W 100 KT 115 MPH
    12H 30/0600Z 28.2N 43.6W 90 KT 105 MPH
    24H 30/1800Z 30.1N 42.6W 85 KT 100 MPH
    36H 01/0600Z 32.4N 40.6W 85 KT 100 MPH
    48H 01/1800Z 35.6N 37.0W 80 KT 90 MPH
    72H 02/1800Z 44.6N 26.3W 70 KT 80 MPH
    96H 03/1800Z 52.2N 17.2W 55 KT 65 MPH...POST-TROP/EXTRATROP
    120H 04/1800Z 55.0N 15.9W 45 KT 50 MPH...POST-TROP/EXTRATROP

    $$
    Forecaster Latto


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,235 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3



    Nothing sorted tonight.

    Exactly. I think it will be a few more days yet before this is narrowed down to any meaningful extent.

    wxgoDi5.png

    This is like watching the ball in a fast paced Korean table tennis match.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭Pangea


    When Opehlia hit Ireland, was it an ex-hurricane?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,233 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Pangea wrote: »
    When Opehllia hit Ireland, was it an ex-hurricane?

    Yes, an extratropical cyclone with just slightly below hurricane force sustained winds.
    Only one station in Ireland - Fastnet - recorded sustained wind above 64kts but that is off the coast at 60m ASL so not particularly relevant.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    Hopefully this comes to nothing. Dont need the hassle tbh of the country going into shutdown.


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