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Termination Letter from landlord with multiple properties

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Comments

  • #32
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    You please tell me. Can they kick somebody out just to have a place for the girl 1 day a month?

    The ll will not be stupid enough to say his daughter needs it for 1 day a month. The onus would be on you to prove that she is there 1 day a month.


  • #33
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    He screwed himself by trying to use both loopholes available. The first notice being invalid will also look bad.

    Take him to dispute, he's going to lose and it will be at least a 4 figure payday for you. Make sure you have all the documentation. It will take a while. Dont move or go anywhere, he's obviously a chancer who will probably try even more questionable tactics and dig himself a deeper hole. Had a LL serve me invalid notice, then change the locks. He had to pay me what was the equivalent of 3 months rent in the end when the case was finished.


  • #34
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Fol20 wrote: »
    The ll will not be stupid enough to say his daughter needs it for 1 day a month. The onus would be on you to prove that she is there 1 day a month.

    It will be reasonably easy to prove that. I won't share details in case their team reads on the tread.


  • #35
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Always Tired wrote: »
    He screwed himself by trying to use both loopholes available. The first notice being invalid will also look bad.

    Take him to dispute, he's going to lose and it will be at least a 4 figure payday for you. Make sure you have all the documentation. It will take a while. Dont move or go anywhere, he's obviously a chancer who will probably try even more questionable tactics and dig himself a deeper hole.

    Agree and all points taken. I actually write down all the superb ideas you all share with me. I would have never thought about half of them as I am completely new to this sh*ty situation.
    The whole case will look very bad on him but I bet his solicitor will claim that the poor LL (even though having 30-years of experience working as landlord in a property business and owning such huge number of apts) didn't know he served the first invalid notice claiming the need of renovations.
    I will go to the final Tribunal stage if needed only to have his and his son's names published and I will expose them in public for the misery they cause. I already found 1 similar case against them, but I am absolutely sure there are people who got pushed out from their apts and they never sought help. My neighbours tell me how every 6 months he comes for more cash and threatens then with eviction. This man is insatiable and soo freaking wrong!


  • #36
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    Dont worry about needing anyone there with you. I was by myself, was a student at the time, there was 2 men who were LLs and the estate agent so 3 older men vs me on my own and it was fine, because what will happen is these chancers will hang themselves, they are never as clever as they think and any efforts to be slick or deceptive the tribunal will see through it easily.

    Like they tried to say they had come to the house and the door was lying open so they changed the locks to 'secure the house'. after serving an invalid notice. With all my stuff still inside. They were then asked that if they werent trying to lock the tenant out and were just trying to secure the house, why didn't they give me a key to the new lock? Once they admitted they didnt give me the new key the case was cut and dry.

    The best part was, the original ruling was an award of low 3 figures. The thicko dug his heels in and didnt want to pay, so he appealed it. When the result for the appeal came in, I was awarded almost 4 times what was in the original ruling as the original adjudicator hadn't realized the length of time he kept my possessions locked in the house, and other details came to light which were even worse but I wont go into that here.

    Get the ball rolling ASAP as the process can take a while.


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  • #37
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,480 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    The prior failed notices will be ignored. All that matters is the current one, and whether the family need is valid and the notice was too.


  • #38
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Always Tired wrote: »
    Dont worry about needing anyone there with you. I was by myself, was a student at the time, there was 2 men who were LLs and the estate agent so 3 older men vs me on my own and it was fine, because what will happen is these chancers will hang themselves, they are never as clever as they think and any efforts to be slick or deceptive the tribunal will see through it easily.

    Like they tried to say they had come to the house and the door was lying open so they changed the locks to 'secure the house'. after serving an invalid notice. With all my stuff still inside. They were then asked that if they werent trying to lock the tenant out and were just trying to secure the house, why didn't they give me a key to the new lock? Once they admitted they didnt give me the new key the case was cut and dry.

    The best part was, the original ruling was an award of low 3 figures. The thicko dug his heels in and didnt want to pay, so he appealed it. When the result for the appeal came in, I was awarded almost 4 times what was in the original ruling as the original adjudicator hadn't realized the length of time he kept my possessions locked in the house, and other details came to light which were even worse but I wont go into that here.

    Get the ball rolling ASAP as the process can take a while.

    Yep, you went though hell yourself! Great job for kicking back and having balls to face them all while being on your own.
    All I wanted is to be left alone, pay my rent, pay the 4% increase every year and live happily ever after. Yet the LL's greed is stronger than the current legislation, ethics and morality. Funny that I ever thought that my LL was a cool guy. Now I look like a total tool for sending him a nice email 2 years ago thanking for being the best LL I have ever dealt with. I bet they will use that email at the hearing.


    Can you tell me if I should slightly wait with opening the dispute with RTB (I still have 3 weeks before deadline) to buy some time and put my case together or maybe i should file it e.g. next Monday?
    I just scheduled a FLAC appointment for next Wednesday so i would prefer to file the case once i know all the details what i should/should not include.


  • #39
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Varik wrote: »
    The prior failed notices will be ignored. All that matters is the current one, and whether the family need is valid and the notice was too.



    If I dont show the previous invalid notices and conversations, how otherwise can you prove the LL's history / campaign of vindictive conduct towards me and his regular attempts to push me out?


  • #40
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Op, were you given a notice in writing of a 75% increase or was it verbal? If verbal then the first notice you received was the refurbishment and as this was invalid and not acted apon, no offence took place. You were subsequently given a valid notice with statutory declaration, that is the one the LL will be acting on when his daughter moves in. If she moves in and stays the required time, what grounds is there for dispute? If she moves out before the required time, the LL can offer it back to you.


  • #41
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Op, were you given a notice in writing of a 75% increase or was it verbal? If verbal then the first notice you received was the refurbishment and as this was invalid and not acted apon, no offence took place. You were subsequently given a valid notice with statutory declaration, that is the one the LL will be acting on when his daughter moves in. If she moves in and stays the required time, what grounds is there for dispute? If she moves out before the required time, the LL can offer it back to you.


    All conversations were recorded :) I say all, leading to the first and second notices. They are not nice, I can tell you that.


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  • #42
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    All conversations were recorded :) I say all, leading to the first and second notices. They are not nice, I can tell you that.

    Yes but a notice of rent review must be in writing, verbal has no standing. The offence only arises if the LL acts on an invalid notice. See part 74 of the RTA. It is not an offence to give someone verbal notice, it is an offence to act on it.

    He told you he was raising rent, but he didn’t raise rent because it was invalid. That isn’t an offence under the Act.

    You can check with RTB if the notice you received is valid, but if it is, an offence hasn’t occurred unless the daughter doesn’t move in or re-let’s it.


  • #43
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Yes but a notice of rent review must be in writing, verbal has no standing. The offence only arises if the LL acts on an invalid notice. See part 74 of the RTA. It is not an offence to give someone verbal notice, it is an offence to act on it.

    sure, but thanks to these recorded conversations i have a proof of his clear motive and 8 months long campaign of pushing me out.


  • #44
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    sure, but thanks to these recorded conversations i have a proof of his clear motive and 8 months long campaign of pushing me out.

    I’m not arguing your point, I have no doubt that the account you have given has only one outcome in mind, to move a tenant out because he wants more rent. But, if his daughter does move in, and the LL has served/filed a valid termination, there may not be much you can do. You have a recording of conversations which will clearly show that the LL did not serve you with a notice of rent increase, the RTB states that without that written notice, there is no notice and it wasn’t acted on, your rent wasn’t raised.


  • #45
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Op, were you given a notice in writing of a 75% increase or was it verbal? If verbal then the first notice you received was the refurbishment and as this was invalid and not acted apon, no offence took place. You were subsequently given a valid notice with statutory declaration, that is the one the LL will be acting on when his daughter moves in. If she moves in and stays the required time, what grounds is there for dispute? If she moves out before the required time, the LL can offer it back to you.

    what about moving her in to any of the empty identical apts in the same development?
    or
    what about the LL's lack of attempts to offer me a substitute apt while there are or will be empty soon.

    This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though they are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.


  • #46
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭meijin


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though so are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.

    because it clearly is a penalisation for you not paying the higher rent when asked - but you need to present a story that will prove that, so all the steps leading to the termination notice


  • #47
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    1. How do you know the landlord has other similar properties?
    2. Can you prove this?
    3. Can you prove that these properties are becoming available?

    If the answer to 2 and 3 is yes then I imagine it would strengthen your case as it would help prove the landlord needs to evict you to house his/her daughter.


  • #48
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    1. How do you know the landlord has other similar properties?
    2. Can you prove this?
    3. Can you prove that these properties are becoming available?

    If the answer to 2 and 3 is yes then I imagine it would strengthen your case as it would help prove the landlord needs to evict you to house his/her daughter.

    Meijin, i am going to present a timeline with clear evidence of each individual interaction with LL with recordings, text, emails, letters, etc. I will make sure to do it in a very simple, truthful and clear way.

    AlmightyCushion, i have a proof about points 1,2 and 3. I have a doc (can't name it as his team may read this tread) which LL forwarded to me (hahaha, yep, he did it himself in Feb, probably accidentally or in plain stupidity) proving the ownership of the whole development.
    I also found a previous case against him on the RTB site from this year where I learnt that his son owns 35 more apts. You can't make that up :) it's like the evidence is presented to me on a silver tray!

    So yes, I can prove everything. I live here for over 2 years and see moving vans very often, in average once a motnh but sometimes even more often. I always make sure to be friends with all the neighbours and they share with me when they moved in and how the LL deals with them. They are nice people. If necessary I will call them as witnesses but I am a little worried that LL will use them as a punching bag after I am gone and do the same to them what he does to me. I dont want to throw those people under the bus so I want to check with the FLAC solicitor next Wednesday if I can submit statements from my neighbours and cover their names so the LL has no clue who they are.


  • #49
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,042 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    Meijin, i am going to present a timeline with clear evidence of each individual interaction with LL with recordings, text, emails, letters, etc. I will make sure to do it is a very simple, truthful and clear way.

    AlmightyCushion, i have proof about points 1,2 and 3. I have a doc (can't name it as his team may read this tread) which LL forwarded to me (hahaha, yep, he did it himself in Feb, probably accidentally or in plain stupidity) proving the ownership of the whole development.
    I also found a previous case against him on the RTB site from this year where I learnt that his son owns 35 more apts. You can't make that up :) it's like the evidence is presented to me on a silver tray!

    So yes, I can proof everything. I live here for over 2 years and see moving vans very often, in average once a motnh but sometimes even more often. I always make sure to be friends with all the neighbours and they share with me when they moved in and how the LL deals with them. They are nice people. If necessary I will call them as witnesses but I am a little worried that LL will use them as a punching bag after I am gone and do the same to them what he does to me. I dont want to throw those people under the bus so I want to check with the FLAC solicitor next Wednesday if I can submit statements from my neighbours and cover their names so the LL has no clue who they are.

    You should set an alert up on daft that picks up units in the development. Then you can get screenshots of when the different apartments in the building go up and Daft. It wouldn't look great for the landlord if they are saying they need your apartment for their daughter when the one just down the hall that is practically identical to yours was up on Daft for rent in the intervening period.


  • #50
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    You should set an alert up on daft that picks up units in the development. Then you can get screenshots of when the different apartments in the building go up and Daft. It wouldn't look great for the landlord if they are saying they need your apartment for their daughter when the one just down the hall that is practically identical to yours was up on Daft for rent in the intervening period.

    I did it this morning. I remember i found a few apts on Daft last year when I was looking for a new place for a friend of mine. I found 2 apts from my development but they didnt have any pics attached and they disappeared from the page pretty quickly. They didnt have a gate or an apt. number, just a vague street name but i recognised them by my LL's phone number and his name.
    Not sure how Daft works but it looks like there are no archive adverts so I could search.
    It would be great to have Dart postings but i think more reliable are my own neighbours who will give me a shout when things go fishy in my apt after i am gone.

    Let's not forget that one of my neighbours has already confirmed with me that his apt will be free in April, exactly when I become homeless. Yet another proof to submit to the RTB hearing.


  • #51
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,982 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    You have all your evidence, the LL needs to show the notice was valid, and his daughter moved in.

    I don’t think the LL is required to offer you an alternative property if he legally terminated a Part 4 tenancy. Nor do I think the RTB can influence what property the daughter “needs”, the LL has to show that his daughter needs accommodation, which presumably will be borne out by her moving in.

    As long as the daughter moves in after termination with a valid notice, where do you see an offence?


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  • #52
    meijin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭meijin


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As long as the daughter moves in after termination with a valid notice, where do you see an offence?

    it's explained here: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/14/enacted/en/html

    (3) Such action may constitute penalisation even though it consists of steps taken by the landlord in the exercise of any rights conferred on him or her by or under this Act, any other enactment or the lease or tenancy agreement concerned


  • #53
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    I know that there are some people here, possible landlords themselves, who try to discourage me from opening a dispute with RTB. I appreciate their efforts and big thanks to them for the input as I have a better picture now of what potential defense will be used by my LL's team at the hearing.

    The point is that there are good LLs and there are shady LLs, the same goes for tenants. I know who I have been dealing with (LL) and that I haven't done anything wrong. For me that's enough to dispute the notice that from the technical side may look valid. But as you now know, there is more to this case.
    I am ready to have my name published but at least my LL's "operations" will be exposed too. I will not be shy from disclosing all evidence at the hearing and it will be rather embarrassing for LL. Yes, I may lose the case anyway and end up with the Dublin Simon Homeless Community, but I will definitely not go down easily. I only wish more shady LL's were exposed and that the tenants fought for their rights all the way.


  • #54
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I hope it all works out for you.
    Curious1002 wrote: »
    ...
    …and to all those who ask why no lease. At the beginning when my LL and I were on good civilised terms, I asked him about it and he said that it’s too much work. He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. I got his bank details but after a few months of asking. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.....

    But hes only able to operate like this because people do business with him, knowing the problems with it. I accept that people feel they have no choice.


  • #55
    Marcusm
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    what about moving her in to any of the empty identical apts in the same development?
    or
    what about the LL's lack of attempts to offer me a substitute apt while there are or will be empty soon.

    This is really NOT a clean cut case when 1 LL has only 1 apt and exercises his right to move in his daughter, therefore a tenant has to go. The LL has plenty of apts which he doesnt want to offer any to me even though they are or will be empty the same month I am required to go.

    I suspect “requires for occupation by a family member” is sufficiently broad so as not to permit the RTB to forbid the landlord from identifying your apartment. Likewise it has no power to make him rehome you. I have no doubt that the TTB will rightly make an adverse inference that your apartment has been chosen for a different reason. However, unless you can establish through fact or induced testimony from the landlord or his family member that the housing need is not genuine, I suspect you will not have strong chances.


  • #56
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    171170 wrote: »
    Contact Threshold or the Mercy Law Centre and they should have that info. to hand.

    I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
    I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.


    Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?


  • #57
    davindub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭davindub


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    I did contact both organisations today and they dont keep records of Tribunal cases based on the reason of termination or a special keywords (e.g. vindictive conduct, penalisation the tenant".
    I can only search by parties' name, date, order numbers, addresses and dispute type, which I dont know. The filtering of the dispute type (e.g. selecting only a termination notice) at best would give me over 500 Tribunal cases to review. If I have to do it then I will but would be nice for some extra info.


    Does anyone remember any case or at least a year where a landlord was accused for penalising the tenant for reporting for some authority (Threshold, RTB, etc) or asking for some repairs, rent book, bank details, etc?

    One case that will be relevant for you is Duniyva in the HC, the LL was successful but the judge did make remarks about the meaning of requires for family member.


  • #58
    Saudades
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭Saudades


    Curious1002 wrote: »
    I live in Dublin in a Rent Pressure Zone for 2 years and 1 month (there was never any lease agreement in place).

    My landlord has 30 apartments in my building where at least 1 apt becomes available each month (people are moving in and out all the time). My landlord's son owns 35 more apartments nearby
    Curious1002 wrote: »
    He collects rent by cash from 50% of the tenants. This is only 50/50 legal business with lots of cash in operation.

    Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

    I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
    Or is it student accommodation?

    And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

    This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.


  • #59
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Why no lease? This guy has 30 apartments and his son 35 of same? Sounds like this is a letting business that would be familiar with all the normal paperwork?? Doesn't add up.

    I'm sure he's more than familiar.


  • #60
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Saudades wrote: »
    Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

    I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
    Or is it student accommodation?

    And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

    This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

    Oh don't mention revenue, all landlords are fully tax compliant don't you know.


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  • #61
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Saudades wrote: »
    Did the landlord register you with PRTB?

    I find it disturbing that a father and son own 65 Dublin apartments between them but don't have lease agreements in place (unless your apartment is of the minority).
    Or is it student accommodation?

    And quite shocking that the landlord is collecting rent by cash for 50% of 65 Dublin apartments. A Dublin apartment goes for at least €1,000 a month, so he's collecting at least €32,000 a month in cash?

    This sounds like a massive operation that the media, PRTB, and especially Revenue would all be very interested in.

    I could play dirty and report the dealings to Revenue. That's actually something that I have to think about. Someone told me that I can play this dirty card in exchange to stay in here. That might be true. But I really want to do progress with this case fairly even though i deal with a shady business.

    Do you all suggest me to write to Revenue?


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