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Rent

  • 28-11-2019 8:05pm
    #1
    Sussy
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    When will rent prices stop going up? How can people pay €2000 for a tiny place?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    When supply increases or demand falls - or significant rent controls are put in place; but that would likely result in there just not being anywhere *to* rent.


  • #3
    Sussy
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Sussy


    L1011 wrote: »
    When supply increases or demand falls - or significant rent controls are put in place; but that would likely result in there just not being anywhere *to* rent.

    I read all this in the news years ago, but is just getting worst, the government saying they building enough so what is then? Immigration growing like this?


  • #4
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Can never figure that out. Is it increased mortgage rates or just landlord greed?


  • #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Can never figure that out. Is it increased mortgage rates or just landlord greed?

    Mortgage rates haven't gone up. Landlords are businesses (although many of them don't quite seem to realise that!), they will generally charge what the market can bear.

    If that happens to be less than their costs, they can't just increase the price to make it so. This isn't the case now but things like mortgage rates have no direct input on rents (other than potential cases of sellups if unprofitable)


  • #6
    Sussy
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Sussy


    I think is greed. Also short term contracts and unfurnished properties on the rise on daft. Is absolutely out of control.


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  • #7
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Sussy wrote: »
    I read all this in the news years ago, but is just getting worst, the government saying they building enough so what is then? Immigration growing like this?

    IMHO, its relating to the following issues:

    1) Everyone wants somewhere to live, so changes in price does not decrease demand very much.

    2) Government policy is reducing the supply of rental property. Rent controls and increasing regulation means the number of landlords and the number of rental properties is falling, even though rents are increasing.

    3) Government policy refuses to address the difficulties in evicting non-paying, overholding or anti-social tenants. This increases the financial risk of being a landlord and that makes the prices charged more expensive.

    4) Supply of property is not the same thing as supply of rental property. Much of the additional supply is going towards buy-to-own buyers. Not everyone can (or even wants to) buy-to-own. While the price of property to buy is stable, property to rent is still undersupplied relative to demand because of 2 and 3.

    5) There are more votes in keeping the cost of buy-to-own property down, than addressing problems in the rental market. There is no political will to help, because making landlording attractive will mean more competition for buy-to-own buyers from landlord investors.


  • #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,577 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sussy wrote: »
    I think is greed. Also short term contracts and unfurnished properties on the rise on daft. Is absolutely out of control.

    Unfurnished properties are the norm in many countries and indeed desirable for long-term tenancies. Return the house painted the same colour internally as it was when you leave and you can do whatever the hell you like in between basically.

    Irish law makes fully unfurnished illegal as some kitchen devices must be provided.


  • #9
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Sussy wrote: »
    When will rent prices stop going up? How can people pay €2000 for a tiny place?

    It should be noted DAFT supplies data on asking rents, the actual RTB figures for current rents are lower. The figures bandied about in the media are DAFT's figures which are skewed by new entrants to the market.


  • #10
    Sussy
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Sussy


    L1011 wrote: »
    Unfurnished properties are the norm in many countries and indeed desirable for long-term tenancies. Return the house painted the same colour internally as it was when you leave and you can do whatever the hell you like in between basically.

    Irish law makes fully unfurnished illegal as some kitchen devices must be provided.

    Sure is the norm in other counties, where the rent is affordable. If i need to buy furniture and transport it if the landlord change his mined, I expect the rent to be lower then a furnished property.


  • #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sussy wrote: »
    I think is greed. Also short term contracts and unfurnished properties on the rise on daft. Is absolutely out of control.

    Why is it greed? The point of running a business is to make as much money as possible. Did you refuse the last pay rise your employer offered you because you didn’t want to be greedy?


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  • #12
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Sussy wrote: »
    Sure is the norm in other counties, where the rent is affordable. If i need to buy furniture and transport it if the landlord change his mined, I expect the rent to be lower then a furnished property.

    I'd be delighted to offer a discount on the rent for a German style letting of the shell someone commits to renting for ten years or whatever.


  • #13
    Ronaldinho
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    Aranza Massive Scapula wrote: »
    Why is it greed? The point of running a business is to make as much money as possible. Did you refuse the last pay rise your employer offered you because you didn’t want to be greedy?

    Housing is a special case though. We all need to live somewhere. It's not something any of us can really do without - although obviously some do....


  • #14
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Housing is a special case though. We all need to live somewhere. It's not something any of us can really do without - although obviously some do....

    Food is also a special case - we all need to eat. Lets go to Tesco and tell them to stop making money out of our basic right to eat.

    If you genuinely want to reduce rents, provide quickie evictions for any tenant with 3 months arears, or proof of antisocial behaviour.


  • #15
    Curious1002
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭Curious1002


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I'd be delighted to offer a discount on the rent for a German style letting of the shell someone commits to renting for ten years or whatever.

    we have a Deal!


  • #16
    Ronaldinho
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    DubCount wrote: »
    Food is also a special case - we all need to eat. Lets go to Tesco and tell them to stop making money out of our basic right to eat.

    If you genuinely want to reduce rents, provide quickie evictions for any tenant with 3 months arears, or proof of antisocial behaviour.

    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.


  • #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Housing is a special case though. We all need to live somewhere. It's not something any of us can really do without - although obviously some do....

    It’s not a special case, that’s far left rubbish.

    A private LL is selling a service the same as any other business and if they aren’t maximising their income they aren’t running their business correctly.
    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.

    The only reason shops don’t charge for more for their food is competition simple as that. When their is a shortage of something shops up their prices because they can.


  • #18
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,865 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Hopefully the vote of no confidence in the housing minister wil go through and collapse the government, it might shake the cobwebs in their brains a bit, slim chance though.


  • #19
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Thargor wrote: »
    Hopefully the vote of no confidence in the housing minister wil go through and collapse the government, it might shake the cobwebs in their brains a bit, slim chance though.

    Unfortunately, I believe no change in Housing Minister, and no change in government, will make any difference. All our politicians, from all parties and all sides, do not have the spine to do what needs to be done because its unpopular.

    You have to ask yourself, while property prices are stable/falling slightly, and while rents are increasing, why are there fewer landlords at the end of the year than the beginning, and fewer properties to rent? Why are the greedy landlords leaving when they should be making pots of money by exploiting the super profits everyone thinks they are making? The answer is, there are many easier ways to make more money with less risk.

    If you want the government to get back into the direct provision of social housing, this will cost money - higher taxes for everyone (not just the rich, which some politicians will try to make you believe).

    If you want to make evictions easier, this means (at least in short term) an increase in the "homeless" figures.

    If you give tax breaks for landlords, you are feeding the fat cats on the backs of the poor workers etc.


  • #20
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.

    Using your analogy, we had a feast of properties and a famine of tenants during the recession when market forces meant rents were driven downward, was that also wrong?, should rents have stayed as they were and do you consider tenants greedy by taking advantage of the situation at that time to request/demand lower rents?

    It is hypocritical to demand lower rents when markets favour it, then complain about rises when the market favours it.


  • #21
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.
    Maybe the Government will reveal how much tax is paid by landlords from rental income.
    I'm sure it must be 35 to 45 per cent of the rent taken in.
    One way to increase supply ( and therefore control rents) is to ease the tax burden.
    Renting unfurnished properties is a good idea. Tenants are more likely to stay longer, they can invest in their own appliances, furniture etc. At the end of tenancy just return a clean property with no arguments abut wear and tear etc. Also have the deposit held in an escrow type account


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  • #22
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.

    What you have is the govt stops growing cheap food and providing it to those less well off. Starts buying expensive good instead. At the same time imports loads more people who need food. Increases costs to those providing cheaper food, and decreases the cost for those companies providing the most expensive food.

    After all that the one group you're not blaming is the govt.

    One common issue across Europe was a similar policy of reducing the supply of govt provided housing. A couple of decades later and we have housing crisis across Europe. Probably coincidence....


  • #23
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Housing crisis will not charge until there is a change in govts to one that has a different focus. The inequality in Irish society has for the first time started to get worse. The gap between poor and rich is widening and more people are less well off. The well off are fewer but richer.


  • #24
    Sheepdish1
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭Sheepdish1


    Sussy wrote: »
    When will rent prices stop going up? How can people pay €2000 for a tiny place?

    It won’t stop anytime soon. There is simply not enough houses for people to buy and a lot of them even on commuter belts are now out of reach to buy for many people.

    To make things worse Cuckoo funds are buying up housing being built and will charge extortionate rent rates as they are in this business to make money. A Cuckoo fund has just been sold 150 houses in Maynooth in an estate where many families would have being trying to buy.

    That’s 150 more houses out of reach for families that can’t compete with this level of wealth, they paid 53 million.

    That’s 150 more houses that will be put on the market are extortionate rent that desperate people will have to buy. Eoin Murphy and Leo Varadkar should resign, this is the worst housing crisis the country has ever seen and once again the wealthy are benefiting to the expense of working families


  • #25
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Ronaldinho wrote: »
    Well to expand on your analogy, then we have a famine in the Irish property market and a lot of opportunistic landlords are taking advantage of others' misfortune.

    70% of Landlords have one property. Is you wanted to take advantage of the situation, having only one property is not the way to do it.

    LL with more than 200 properties increased their numbers of properties by 10% in 2018.


  • #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sheepdish1 wrote: »
    It won’t stop anytime soon. There is simply not enough houses for people to buy and a lot of them even on commuter belts are now out of reach to buy for many people.

    To make things worse Cuckoo funds are buying up housing being built and will charge extortionate rent rates as they are in this business to make money. A Cuckoo fund has just been sold 150 houses in Maynooth in an estate where many families would have being trying to buy.

    That’s 150 more houses out of reach for families that can’t compete with this level of wealth, they paid 53 million.

    That’s 150 more houses that will be put on the market are extortionate rent that desperate people will have to buy. Eoin Murphy and Leo Varadkar should resign, this is the worst housing crisis the country has ever seen and once again the wealthy are benefiting to the expense of working families

    If your figures are correct that’s an average of 350k per house which isn’t outlandish by any means. That’s an average also so for sure there would have been houses cheaper on the estate too.

    I’m not sure how you would propose to stop a person selling to the buyer that they want to sell to, we aren’t a communist country.


  • #27
    Sussy
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Sussy


    So we just wait for the election and hope the next government will do better.


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sussy wrote: »
    So we just wait for the election and hope the next government will do better.

    The government should not be interfering in business of private rentals so I hope you aren’t suggesting they should.


  • #29
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,347 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    I'd be delighted to offer a discount on the rent for a German style letting of the shell someone commits to renting for ten years or whatever.

    As pointed out you can't do that in Ireland due to rental standards here.

    The regulations here make it more expensive to provide rentals here and build them. You can't have shared heating system , washing machines, water etc...

    Properties rented in Germany,Spain, Italy, France etc... would be illegal here.

    Very simply it is more expensive and higher risk to provide rental accommodation in Ireland. Rents reflect this. You want cheaper rent reduce the cost and risk to landlords. Basic economic of supply and demand


  • #30
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    beauf wrote: »
    Housing crisis will not charge until there is a change in govts to one that has a different focus. The inequality in Irish society has for the first time started to get worse. The gap between poor and rich is widening and more people are less well off. The well off are fewer but richer.

    The well off in Irish society are those who own property. For people to have extra cash in their pocket from their salary each month as a result of not having to pay so much for somewhere to live, this is better for society as the cash would be spread around different sectors rather than having one sector hoover up that cash.

    We need to get to a point where it is possible to rent something really cheap for oneself, if desired, for the good of the social and emotional health of society. Then people can pay more for a better quality of place. This demands that property and land prices plummet.


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  • #31
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    The well off in Irish society are those who own property. For people to have extra cash in their pocket from their salary each month as a result of not having to pay so much for somewhere to live, this is better for society as the cash would be spread around different sectors rather than having one sector hoover up that cash.

    We need to get to a point where it is possible to rent something really cheap for oneself, if desired, for the good of the social and emotional health of society. Then people can pay more for a better quality of place. This demands that property and land prices plummet.

    Really what it means is that some portion of development should always be set aside for social need and properly enforced. We aren't doing that. Also we have to control demand. You can't keep fueling a fire you are trying to put out.


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