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20-12-2019, 18:07   #46
Gaoth Laidir
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The OP is 8 timezones away so I'd wait for him to explain all, which I'm sure he will.
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20-12-2019, 18:14   #47
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The OP wasn't intending to create a personality cult on this forum but that's what's going to happen.
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20-12-2019, 18:18   #48
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Meanwhile I've taken his data and added 10-yr running means to the Toronto and C.E.T. series.

It's notable how there is no runaway rise in temperature in recent decades in either series (and indeed in the whole Global dataset). The old hockeystick of yesteryore seems to have had a chunk broken off its tip. Whatever the reason for the warming dragging its heels, it is something that is not accounted for in the projections of doom. Globally, the dataset is not even rising in line with the RCP4.5 Business-as-usual scenario.

Anyway, it's only fair that MT be allowed time to expand on this idea here before the smash-and-grab looting continues.

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20-12-2019, 18:33   #49
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I saw an interesting theory presented a few years back on the reasons dinosaurs migrated such long distances across continents. The scientist (who I can't remember) claimed that the oxygen concentration in the atmosphere at the time was much higher than it is today. Because of this, forest fires were rampant so the dinosaurs had to migrate to find unburnt vegetation (+ presumably to flee the fires).

I thought this was very interesting. But it would make you think about the demonising of CO2 in the media of late. If the CO2 levels increase then maybe the instances of natural forest fires may decrease in future and things will likely balance out in time. The earth is very good at harmonising everything, we just need to give it a chance.
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20-12-2019, 18:49   #50
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Yes I'm also interested to know what evidence this is based on and also who else supports this view. Why is so difficult to get answers to such basic questions? Surely the OP would be able to help out.
Google Valentina zharkova. It was her science (and she was only one of 2 people world wide who predicted the last solar cycle being half the strength of previous ones, even NASA got it wrong, now they are following her lead)

Then check if the IPCC takes solar forcing into account in their models.

Then google the medieval and roman warming phases.

That's what got me interested in natural warming/cooling cycles. Valentina had been spot on so far.

Also, if we are the only culprit, and CO2 levels are at record highs. Why have global temps been dropping since 2016?
Unless something else is influencing temps? Like the sun?

But I'm with MT on this. Why does it have to be either/or? Why not both?

And his reasoning is sound. What if we can't stop it? What are we doing to mitigate it?

Valentina is warning of food shortages by 2028 due to shorter growing seasons.
It's happening already. The hunger stones were seen in Central Europe in 2018. They are inscribed with dates as far back as the 12th century. What caused the warming/weather pattern
Change then?

We are grasping at the edge of it all. But I do feel zharkova has forced the IPCC to include solar forcing in their models from 2020. Incidentally, they tried to stop the publishing of her work in Nature magazine with a sly email to the publishers. She found out when she was cc'ed on the magazines reply.

That's just nasty. What are they afraid of?
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20-12-2019, 18:54   #51
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What is worse is that they are missing the point completely. He is not saying that AGW isn't happening, he is saying that because AGW is augmenting natural warming, we need to do more than stop burning fossil fuels.
AGW is not "augmenting natural warming". Over the last 25-30 years the World should have been naturally cooling. That's an important point, and yes, we do need to do more to reverse the process, and no, we don't really need an alternative theory about it. The IPCC has the best minds in the World working on it.

I have the greatest respect for MT's weather forecasts, but I'm sick to the back teeth of people trying to undermine the genuine scientific consensus on Climate Change because "communists", or whatever.
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20-12-2019, 18:55   #52
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I saw an interesting theory presented a few years back on the reasons dinosaurs migrated such long distances across continents. The scientist (who I can't remember) claimed that the oxygen concentration in the atmosphere at the time was much higher than it is today. Because of this, forest fires were rampant so the dinosaurs had to migrate to find unburnt vegetation (+ presumably to flee the fires).

I thought this was very interesting. But it would make you think about the demonising of CO2 in the media of late. If the CO2 levels increase then maybe the instances of natural forest fires may decrease in future and things will likely balance out in time. The earth is very good at harmonising everything, we just need to give it a chance.
Think I saw that to. But if Co2 what at a concentration to reduce forest fires I dont think we would be around to worry about the fires

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20-12-2019, 19:07   #53
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Google Valentina zharkova. It was her science (and she was only one of 2 people world wide who predicted the last solar cycle being half the strength of previous ones, even NASA got it wrong, now they are following her lead)

Then check if the IPCC takes solar forcing into account in their models.
It's discussed in IPCC TAR-06 6.1.1 page 380.
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20-12-2019, 19:09   #54
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Think I saw that to. But if Co2 what at a concentration to reduce forest fires I dont think we would be around to worry about the fires
and *cough* ocean acidification *cough*.
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20-12-2019, 19:24   #55
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The last 20 years has seen a slight cooling in both the data series, but especially the Toronto one. This is repeated all over the globe. It's the same with Arctic and Greenland melt, which have both shown no increase in a similar period.

But apparently climate change is still 100% human and all due to the ever-increasing GHG emissions...

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20-12-2019, 19:27   #56
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Global Warming or Climate Change is the biggest lie ever perpetrated upon humanity. It is the very worst of Marxist brainwashing imaginable, I have travelled the world and the climate is in a constant state of flux, the state of the Extinction Rebellion protestors in Dublin earlier this year when I tried reasoning with their unproven science I was met a tirade of personal abuse. These are dangerous disgusting people who want to censor everything to suit their own horrendous far-left agenda.

These type of people with their lies and intolerance is why we have strong politicians like Trump, Brexit etc. People are fed up of the left and their biased media cheerleaders.
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20-12-2019, 20:06   #57
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M.T makes a very valid point (one which I do side with) but the problem with climate change talk is that so many scientists have theories. It's very difficult for the average person to know what to believe, add to the fact governments appear to be cashing in on everything that "negatively effects the climate" this can lead to the general public not wanting to believe the science.
News media looking for headlines love to promote the end of humanity which in turn gives governments more ammunition..Social media which should help inform only adds to confuse people. We've seen this countless times with weather warnings.
M.T. level headed theory is so easy to dismiss as rubbish when there is money to be made.

If he's right, maybe we're better off not believing him, because that could lead to us not bother changing our ways.
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20-12-2019, 20:23   #58
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People just need to listen to the actual experts.

Don't trust people who select one or two weather stations and then pretend they represent the whole World. They don't. The world is warming. There is no doubt about this fact.

Don't trust people who select periods of time that skew the data to support their lies.

Greenland is melting rapidly. So too the Arctic sea ice, and the Antarctic. So too the Himilayan glaciers.

All facts. The rightwing conspiracy crap is poisonous.
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20-12-2019, 20:53   #59
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People just need to listen to the actual experts.

Don't trust people who select one or two weather stations and then pretend they represent the whole World. They don't. The world is warming. There is no doubt about this fact.

Don't trust people who select periods of time that skew the data to support their lies.

Greenland is melting rapidly. So too the Arctic sea ice, and the Antarctic. So too the Himilayan glaciers.

All facts. The rightwing conspiracy crap is poisonous.
Actual experts thought the world was flat back when they were the experts. We need to keep an open mind.

Everything is a data set. Everyone uses them to some degree or another. To prove a point. Both the climate change believers and deniers.

The globe is warming and the ice is melting Over the last 150 years . We're discussing how much of it is caused by our behaviour. Could be all our fault, could be feck all got to do with us.
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20-12-2019, 20:56   #60
Gaoth Laidir
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Originally Posted by Coles View Post
People just need to listen to the actual experts.

Don't trust people who select one or two weather stations and then pretend they represent the whole World. They don't. The world is warming. There is no doubt about this fact.

Don't trust people who select periods of time that skew the data to support their lies.

Greenland is melting rapidly. So too the Arctic sea ice, and the Antarctic. So too the Himilayan glaciers.

All facts. The rightwing conspiracy crap is poisonous.
MT is a qualified expert.

Greenland is not melting rapidly. Nor are the Arctic or Antarctic. Year on year there is no net increase in melt in these regions. They've levelled off. Want me to post those charts again for the nth time? Here they are. You yourself are the one behaving like a typical chemtrail activist.

I took the last 20 years because we're constantly being told that warming/melting is increasing, but it's not. These two stations are not the only ones showing no warming. Global datasets include a lot more than station data, much of it best guesses filling in for data-sparse areas. As said, the data are scraping the very bottom of the RCP4.5 members.


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