Replay: All Ireland SFC Final Dublin v Kerry Saturday 14/09/2019 @ 6pm

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 2:03pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for son.

Correct application of the rules would have seen Kerry get a penalty after 4 mins (Geaneys shot cleared off the line) as Cooper clearly pulled Sean O Shea to the ground - this would also have brought forward Cooper's red card by about 20 mins.

Geaney's missed penalty would have been retaken
John Small would have received a black card to go with his yellow for constantly pulling Stephen O Brien to ground off the ball and thus would have been sent off too.

Jack Mc would have given away a 14 yard free for a foul on Stephen O Brien in the second half and Lyne would have won a free off Connolly at the very end to give Kerry an attacking platform.

Add to that about 10-15 pointless off the ball digs thrown by Michael Darragh and I think the 2/3 questionable frees that you are calling for Dublin to get will be negated.

Refs make mistakes - both teams usually benefit and suffer for them in the same match

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 2:07pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

Morley didnt warrant any card- give me a clear example of where?
Sean O Shea - yellow card as small ducked into the tackle
O Sullivan - got a ticking as per the rules - next foul was red.

What I am saying is that you cant have selective application of the rules - the ref made mistakes for both teams and if you want them all rectified then theres a good chance that Dublin may have come off worse on the first day.

How many penalties should Dublin have had? None from my record but am open to suggestions

liosnagceann75 · 10-09-2019 2:29pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

Don't know how Dublin supporters will cope when Kerry come out on top Saturday. The referee will probably be blamed again.

corny · 10-09-2019 2:35pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Dublin have started poorly in so many games now that it's hard to fathom.

There might be method in that though when you see how they're finishing games. They were ravenous in the last 10 minutes against Kerry.

I'm sure they know the capabilities of the players and at what point (kms covered for example) performance might suffer. Maybe the slow start, where movement is slack in the forwards and defenders are slow to close down, is a way of ensuring players are still able to go full tilt when the game hits the crucial minutes. Personally I find that more plausible than player apathy or a lack of focus as reasons to explain the slow starts.

blanch152 · 10-09-2019 2:53pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Wow "dad", that's quite the litany.

So going by your amazing rulebook, how many penalties should Dublin have had? How many cards and what colour for O'Sullivan and Morley?

What colour card should Sean O'Shea have received for the tackle across the neck and head of Paddy Small right at the end?

And regardless, for the replay, if Con and Mannion get equal (not asking for any favours) protection, then I'll be happy. Even playing field, and may the best team on the day prevail.

O'Shea could have seen red for that tackle if interpreted as putting a player at risk (rules 5.17 or 5.28). He would have missed the replay.

We never saw a replay of the clash that led to John Small leaving the field as it led directly to the Kerry goal. There is a bit of history for Dublin with goalkeepers with Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw and no free. A free on that occasion would have been a tapover putting six points between the teams. I am sure there will be many to say it happened in front of them and was purely accidental.

At least two examples of Kerry players picking the ball up. A Dublin player was pinged for that, but not Kerry.

The_Kew_Tour · 10-09-2019 2:54pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Be careful what you wish for son.

Correct application of the rules would have seen Kerry get a penalty after 4 mins (Geaneys shot cleared off the line) as Cooper clearly pulled Sean O Shea to the ground - this would also have brought forward Cooper's red card by about 20 mins.

Geaney's missed penalty would have been retaken
John Small would have received a black card to go with his yellow for constantly pulling Stephen O Brien to ground off the ball and thus would have been sent off too.

Jack Mc would have given away a 14 yard free for a foul on Stephen O Brien in the second half and Lyne would have won a free off Connolly at the very end to give Kerry an attacking platform.

Add to that about 10-15 pointless off the ball digs thrown by Michael Darragh and I think the 2/3 questionable frees that you are calling for Dublin to get will be negated.

Refs make mistakes - both teams usually benefit and suffer for them in the same match

You can take off the Green and Yellow glasses now

10-09-2019 3:00pm

corny wrote: »

There might be method in that though when you see how they're finishing games. They were ravenous in the last 10 minutes against Kerry.

There's also an element of fitness and/or appetite from the opposition that needs to be factored in. Kerry, Mayo and even Meath this year were 'all hands on deck' for the first quarter of each of their games this year and showed a blueprint of how to put it up to Dublin.........but it's just not sustainable for more than maybe half an hour at most.

Dublin have weathered an awful lot of storms and come out the far side all guns blazing. I've said it before, the Kerry game was as bad a performance as I've seen them have in probably 4 or 5 years and they still almost clinched it at the death.

I genuinely cannot see a repeat of that.

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:02pm

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

You can take off the Green and Yellow glasses now

I dont wear glasses.

Which point are you disputing?

My overall point is that calls go against both teams in every game so Rooster should stop his complaining about 'protection'.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:02pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Morley didnt warrant any card- give me a clear example of where?
Sean O Shea - yellow card as small ducked into the tackle
O Sullivan - got a ticking as per the rules - next foul was red.

What I am saying is that you cant have selective application of the rules - the ref made mistakes for both teams and if you want them all rectified then theres a good chance that Dublin may have come off worse on the first day.

How many penalties should Dublin have had? None from my record but am open to suggestions

Not sure what you're getting at.

I made no reference to the first game.

All I said is I hope Mannion and Con get the same protection as Clifford and the Kerry forwards in the replay.

You then selectively picked out 6 moans. I was wondering in my reply whether you noted all the Kerry near-fouls or fouls as well!! But it seems the ref only missed one Kerry card and no Dublin penalties while he missed half dozen Dublin cards and a couple of penalties. :P

Anyway, on to the replay. No moaning. Up the Dubs, but if Kerry are good enough to win, then hearty congrats to them!

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:04pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Not sure what you're getting at.

I made no reference to the first game.

All I said is I hope Mannion and Con get the same protection as Clifford and the Kerry forwards in the replay.

You then selectively picked out 6 moans. I was wondering in my reply whether you noted all the Kerry near-fouls or fouls as well!! But it seems the ref only missed one Kerry card and no Dublin penalties while he missed half dozen Dublin cards and a couple of penalties. :P

Anyway, on to the replay. No moaning. Up the Dubs, but if Kerry are good enough to win, then hearty congrats to them!

Look my overall point is that things go against both teams

I'm open to suggestions of other things that went against Dublin but I can assure you that they nearly always balance out

liosnagceann75 · 10-09-2019 3:06pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Not sure what you're getting at.

I made no reference to the first game.

All I said is I hope Mannion and Con get the same protection as Clifford and the Kerry forwards in the replay.

You then selectively picked out 6 moans. I was wondering in my reply whether you noted all the Kerry near-fouls or fouls as well!! But it seems the ref only missed one Kerry card and no Dublin penalties while he missed half dozen Dublin cards and a couple of penalties. :P

Anyway, on to the replay. No moaning. Up the Dubs, but if Kerry are good enough to win, then hearty congrats to them!

No moaning! I'd love to see your posts when you moan.

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:08pm

blanch152 wrote: »

O'Shea could have seen red for that tackle if interpreted as putting a player at risk (rules 5.17 or 5.28). He would have missed the replay.

We never saw a replay of the clash that led to John Small leaving the field as it led directly to the Kerry goal. There is a bit of history for Dublin with goalkeepers with Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw and no free. A free on that occasion would have been a tapover putting six points between the teams. I am sure there will be many to say it happened in front of them and was purely accidental.

At least two examples of Kerry players picking the ball up. A Dublin player was pinged for that, but not Kerry.

O Shea's was up for debate but I'd imagine the fact that Small ducked into the challenge led to ref to stay on the side of leniency which I think is reasonable.

The second point above-noone saw as you mentioned so it's completely hypothetical and we have to trust the officials that nothing happened.
I ddidnt see Dublin appeal for anything, did you?

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:08pm

blanch152 wrote: »

O'Shea could have seen red for that tackle if interpreted as putting a player at risk (rules 5.17 or 5.28). He would have missed the replay.

We never saw a replay of the clash that led to John Small leaving the field as it led directly to the Kerry goal. There is a bit of history for Dublin with goalkeepers with Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw and no free. A free on that occasion would have been a tapover putting six points between the teams. I am sure there will be many to say it happened in front of them and was purely accidental.

At least two examples of Kerry players picking the ball up. A Dublin player was pinged for that, but not Kerry.

The Kerry keeper caught Small in the head. The angle was too far to know whether it was deliberate or accidental.

Can't understand at all how Small ended up with blood on his hand/arm. While there was no replay, I did rewind my recording of it. And while the angle is not great, I can't see any contact with Small's arm/hand.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:10pm

liosnagceann75 wrote: »

No moaning! I'd love to see your posts when you moan.

English not your first language?

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:11pm

The Rooster wrote: »

The Kerry keeper caught Small in the head. The angle was too far to know whether it was deliberate or accidental.

Can't understand at all how Small ended up with blood on his hand/arm. While there was no replay, I did rewind my recording of it. And while the angle is not great, I can't see any contact with Small's arm/hand.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:17pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Look my overall point is that things go against both teams

I'm open to suggestions of other things that went against Dublin but I can assure you that they nearly always balance out

You can't actually assure me, or anyone else, of that. Everyone makes mistakes, including refs and it may not work out so neatly to balance out.

But all the top refs are pretty good and do their best. I made no complaints about Gough. I didn't agree with every single decision but I can see how he came to make every decision and that's always good enough for me.

liosnagceann75 · 10-09-2019 3:19pm

The Rooster wrote: »

English not your first language?

English is my first language but also speak Irish as well. What's your point?

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:19pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

That's a pretty pathetic attempt, is it not?

Would you be so kind as to put into words what was wrong with me saying that it was impossible to know from the TV angle whether the collision was accidental or deliberate?

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:21pm

The Rooster wrote: »

That's a pretty pathetic attempt, is it not?

Would you be so kind as to put into words what was wrong with me saying that it was impossible to know from the TV angle whether the collision was accidental or deliberate?

Looking for an incident when there seems to be nothing at all

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:22pm

The Rooster wrote: »

But all the top refs are pretty good and do their best. I made no complaints about Gough. I didn't agree with every single decision but I can see how he came to make every decision and that's always good enough for me.

But then we are more or less in agreement!

blanch152 · 10-09-2019 3:23pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

O Shea's was up for debate but I'd imagine the fact that Small ducked into the challenge led to ref to stay on the side of leniency which I think is reasonable.

The second point above-noone saw as you mentioned so it's completely hypothetical and we have to trust the officials that nothing happened.
I ddidnt see Dublin appeal for anything, did you?

From a Dublin perspective, we have had to trust the officials that nothing happened when Paddy Andrews jaw was broken in a clash with Niall Morgan, so you can understand the query.

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

From a Dublin perspective, we have had to trust the officials that nothing happened when Paddy Andrews jaw was broken in a clash with Niall Morgan, so you can understand the query.

But sure we can say that about absolutely every issue in every game - thats my point.

There are always contentious incidents/mistakes from refs so if we open up the can of worms on 1/2 things then we will be here all day bickering over small things. I think overall Gough did well

I cant recall the Andrews & Morgan incident so I cant comment on it.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:27pm

corny wrote: »

There might be method in that though when you see how they're finishing games. They were ravenous in the last 10 minutes against Kerry.

I'm sure they know the capabilities of the players and at what point (kms covered for example) performance might suffer. Maybe the slow start, where movement is slack in the forwards and defenders are slow to close down, is a way of ensuring players are still able to go full tilt when the game hits the crucial minutes. Personally I find that more plausible than player apathy or a lack of focus as reasons to explain the slow starts.

Perhaps you're right. I can't imagine we deliberately start slowly. But silly mistakes like Cooper being caught in possession, McCarthy being caught in possession, Kilkenny misdirecting a short handpass (all resulting in careless turnovers early on certainly helped Kerry get a platform and should have seen them take a commanding lead) should be easy to cut out without impacting the last quarter.

Well whatever the reason, I'm hoping for a better start next time.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:30pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Looking for an incident when there seems to be nothing at all

I wasn't looking for anything! I was responding to a post.

There was an incident between the keeper and Small, which resulted in Small having to go off. As I said, it may have been a complete accident, but it was definitely wasn't "nothing at all".

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:33pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

But then we are more or less in agreement!

Yep. I made no complaints about Gough!

Bemused by some of the responses I got, especially from the other lad who clearly didn't read my posts properly.

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:34pm

The Rooster wrote: »

I wasn't looking for anything! I was responding to a post.

There was an incident between the keeper and Small, which resulted in Small having to go off. As I said, it may have been a complete accident, but it was definitely wasn't "nothing at all".

Anything that happens cant technically be deemed to be nothing at all but in the context of foul play or misdemeanors committed then it was nothing at all - noone from Dublin even appealed for anything and there seemed to be absolutely nothing in it - Small didnt even appeal and he literally gives it the pained face appeal to every incident he is involved in.

As I said by even raising that as an issue - you are clutching

Poor_old_gill · 10-09-2019 3:35pm

The Rooster wrote: »

Yep. I made no complaints about Gough!

Bemused by some of the responses I got, especially from the other lad who clearly didn't read my posts properly.

But sure your original point was that Con & Mannion didnt get the protection that Clifford did- that's a complaint about Gough

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:38pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

But sure your original point was that Con & Mannion didnt get the protection that Clifford did- that's a complaint about Gough

I did no such thing. Maybe you should read the post again. Remember this is a thread about the replay.

The Rooster · 10-09-2019 3:47pm

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Anything that happens cant technically be deemed to be nothing at all but in the context of foul play or misdemeanors committed then it was nothing at all - noone from Dublin even appealed for anything and there seemed to be absolutely nothing in it - Small didnt even appeal and he literally gives it the pained face appeal to every incident he is involved in.

As I said by even raising that as an issue - you are clutching

Jeez Louise!

Did I raise the issue? Really? Did I say it was foul?

Did you actually even see the incident?

Small was lying in a heap, he immediately raised his hand to seek attention. He was unable to continue. Are suggesting he was faking it?

After the goal went in two Dublin players went straight to Gough. Not that complaining means anything. There's probably nobody other than the keeper himself who could say whether it was accidental or intentional. Would be very difficult for Gough to give anything given he was a good distance from it. Umpire didn't budge, but umpires are umpires.

Again, you're trying to get contrary about nothing.

liosnagceann75 · 10-09-2019 3:48pm

The Rooster wrote: »

I did no such thing. Maybe you should read the post again. Remember this is a thread about the replay.

Your the fella who can't understand English. You seem to have a problem comprehending your own posts. Your nothing but a moaner.

Replay: All Ireland SFC Final Dublin v Kerry Saturday 14/09/2019 @ 6pm

Comments