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Ireland's Greatest Orator

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  • 09-11-2010 12:58pm
    #1
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭


    Mods if this has been done, I apologize, I did try to find out if something like this was done before but no sign.

    Name says it all.

    Who do you think is Ireland's Greatest ever Speaker?

    DeV.
    Pearse.
    Connolly.
    Larkin.
    O'Connell.

    These are 5 great men that I can think of off the top of my head.

    I didn't want to put a poll in because I am terrified of forgetting one!


«1

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    #2
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    Daniel O'Connell was considered one of the finest orators of his age, especially in an international context. He was excellent and widely admired in the House of Commons (Gladstone wrote a wonderful piece about his conduct in the House) and as a demagogue, in terms of rallying the masses (And he certainly achieved this, Irish people in their hundreds of thousands turned out to hear him in the year of repeal) he was uncomparable. It is unfortunate there was no video footage, I would dearly have loved to have seen the great man in his prime.

    You are leaving out Henry Grattan. His speeches were so eloquent, his condemnation of the Act of Union surpasses any and all superlatives. He is the epitome of parliamentary oratory in any context.

    Dev and Pearse were terrible orators. Pearse had one good day - O'Donovan Rossa's funeral - but besides that he was simply far too nervous a soul to set the flames of people's souls alight. Dev admitted that had he not got into politics he would have been a bishop. He was wooden, dry and uncharismatic. He is a bit of a Lenin character really, he was admired and loved despite suffering from all the drawbacks of a boorish personality.

    Jim Larkin deserves his place in this hall of greats, the workers of Dublin certainly related to this booming northern voice.


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    #3
    who what when
    Registered Users Posts: 810 ✭✭✭who what when


    And who is currently irelands greatest orator?


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    #4
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    O'Connell.

    Given the kind of attendance he commanded there surely couldn't be anyone else even close?

    And how about adding Parnell to your list? He played the brits game in parliment in Westminster and beat them at it.


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    #5
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    InTheTrees wrote: »
    And how about adding Parnell to your list? He played the brits game in parliment in Westminster and beat them at it.

    Indeed, this is why I put this up. I had forgotten about Parnell's great speeches, even though one of the beautiful quotes of his speeches is immortalized on his statue on O'Connell's Street!

    I am being ate alive by my housemate, who is fuming that I did not mention the speech made by Robert Emmett from the Dock! Though it is only one speech, it is a great one!


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    #6
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Indeed, this is why I put this up. I had forgotten about Parnell's great speeches, even though one of the beautiful quotes of his speeches is immortalized on his statue on O'Connell's Street!

    I am being ate alive by my housemate, who is fuming that I did not mention the speech made by Robert Emmett from the Dock! Though it is only one speech, it is a great one!

    Yeah, Emmet deserves a mention, though I'm not sure he earns it for consistency. The speech from the dock is certainly high up in the national canon though.


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    #7
    walrusgumble
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,062 ✭✭✭walrusgumble


    who what when wrote: »
    And who is currently irelands greatest orator?

    Considering that the Irish are suppose to have the gift of the gab, probably O'Connell still is heads and shoulders over all. Connolly was good at driving the spirit without the mythicism that came from Yeats and later Pearse.

    Michael Collins, didn't some people say he was coming into his own? Anyone know what was Edward Carson like, considering his barrister background?

    Modern? For striking fear, anger, hatred, loyality (which ever side one was on) Ian Paisley. More the theatre than what he said

    Isn't ths type of communication really be dead now? We don't have the same theatatrics as one sees in Westminister (Always good to watch), after all, all the scripts are..... well, well prepared scripts by civil servants and the like, no off the cuff / unless fighting back against petty allegations from the other side. I was surprised that Manseragh would not be there, but he does not have it . Sure, don't we not take to kindly to the Kevin Myers school of English, as seen with Bertie, dis dat dose (ah, begining to sound snobby, for I can't talk:D)

    What makes a good communicator? Isn't actions more important?


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    #8
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Bono's great at inducting people into the rock n roll hall of fame...

    *runs*


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    #9
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    walrusgumble wrote: »
    What makes a good communicator? Isn't actions more important?

    Because actions mean nothing if you cannot rile them up with a good speech!

    Ian Paisley was a great speaker too. Great passion.


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    #10
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    david75 wrote: »
    Bono's great at inducting people into the rock n roll hall of fame...

    *runs*

    Why Fanning? Why are you dragging him into this too??? ;):D


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    #11
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Funny you mention fanning..he's gotta be the very worst interviewer in the history of interviews ever.


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    #12
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    david75 wrote: »
    Funny you mention fanning..he's gotta be the very worst interviewer in the history of interviews ever.

    I was playing off your name and your mentioning of Bono! :D

    All news reporters, radio talk show hosts and radio presenters are terrible these days. You wouldn't follow most of them through a revolving door!


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    #13
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    LOL at Fanning & Bono :D

    Daniel O'Connell


    Ian Paisley was a great demagogue.


    Paddy Hillery spearheaded an attack on Charlie Haughey in the early 70's to the Fianna Fail Party following the arms scandal that consolidated FF.

    Have we had a really important inspiring speech in Ireland since Independence.


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    #14
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. I say that very begrudgingly.
    I don't believe we've had any great speakers since independence on the Nationalist side. Its strange because a few members of the diaspora have become fine orators e.g The Kennedys, George Galloway, Clinton.
    I think when you speak of a great orator, its next to impossible to rate anyone whose speech has not been recorded. Eloquent words are fine but I think its in the delivery that someone can become a great orator.


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    #15
    Dionysus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Ireland's Greatest Orator


    Patrick Darcy (1598-1669)? Patrick Barnwall?


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    #16
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    patsman07 wrote: »
    In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. I say that very begrudgingly.
    I don't believe we've had any great speakers since independence on the Nationalist side. Its strange because a few members of the diaspora have become fine orators e.g The Kennedys, George Galloway, Clinton.
    I think when you speak of a great orator, its next to impossible to rate anyone whose speech has not been recorded. Eloquent words are fine but I think its in the delivery that someone can become a great orator.
    " In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. " :eek: In fairness you stated - I say that very begrudgingly. But you've fallen for the whole purpose of the black propaganda that has been spewed out by so called 'opinion makers' of Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris, Garret Fitzgerald etc - to dress up servility to the corrupt and perverted as "been able to accept all traditions on the island of Ireland......our maturity as a nation blah, blah, blah ".

    He was about as great an orator as Idi Amin or Jackie Healy Rae - though in fairness to Jackie he never spouted the secterian hatred of Paisley. About all Paisley could ever say was, " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " :rolleyes: Some orator indeed.

    Paisley

    Idi_Amin.jpg

    Idi Amin

    paisley1969.gif


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    #17
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Paisley is not comparable to Amin ffs. :rolleyes:


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    #18
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    This thread isn't not about their political/religious beliefs, but their ability to orate them.

    I hate Paisleys speeches in regards to sectarianism, but he was a good public speaker, obviously, old age has taken some of his abilities away.


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    #19
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Paisley is not comparable to Amin ffs. :rolleyes:
    Ok it's not fair to Idi Amin to compare him to Dr Ian Parsley.


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    #20
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    This thread isn't not about their political/religious beliefs, but their ability to orate them.

    I hate Paisleys speeches in regards to sectarianism, but he was a good public speaker, obviously, old age has taken some of his abilities away.
    Ok, so is Jackie Healy Rae, Charlie Haughey, Martin Manseragh etc


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    #21
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    Ok it's not fair to Idi Amin to compare him to Dr Ian Parsley.

    Don't post in this thread again if you can't contribute properly. Mod.


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    #22
    PatsytheNazi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,260 ✭✭✭PatsytheNazi


    brianthebard wrote: »
    Don't post in this thread again if you can't contribute properly. Mod.
    Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

    I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.


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    #23
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

    I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.

    I've no problem with you pointing out the lack of finesse in Paisley's speechifying but there's nothing to gain from comparing him to dictator's. That's is all. The above is an example of a useful post, the previous ones are not. If you stick with the above style things may run smoother for everyone.


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    #24
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    Ok in all fairness, a guy who can only shout " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " is a great orator ?

    Actually he did a bit more than that and he understood his media.
    I'll tell you what a great orator is, Bernadette Devlin (McAliskey). The youngest MP ever elected to Westminister, her maiden speech in the Commons was regarded even by Tory backbenchers at the time as one of the greatest they ever heard. I have gone to hear her speak on several occasions - the finest orator I will ever hear in my lifetime.

    I am not familiar with it.

    But it coincided with Dana winning the Eurovision etc and she was a beminiskirted passionate young woman.

    I did hear her on radio once discussing being airlifted following an assasination attempt and her story was great and she used very simple descriptive language almost monotone and then changed volume and tone and was very engaging.

    So I can imagine she has good oratorial skills.

    Who knows Patsy, the two best orators of the 20th Century in Ireland may have been from the North when the spoken word and visual impact of TV & Radio took over from the written word.


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    #25
    Denerick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,488 ✭✭✭Denerick


    That rubbish about Paisley is just that, rubbish. Paisley's booming voice was the hallmark of the Ulster demagogue, be it at a public rally or in parliament. His opinions were horrible, but his manner of expressing them was electrifying.


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    #26
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Paisley was a good speaker in the way people like Hitler are good speakers, they can spew horrible bile and people will clamor for more and be seduced by it.

    (Not trying to Godwin or anything, I think its a valid point)


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    #27
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭wolfpawnat


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Paisley was a good speaker in the way people like Hitler are good speakers, they can spew horrible bile and people will clamor for more and be seduced by it.

    (Not trying to Godwin or anything, I think its a valid point)

    It was a documentary of him and watching him speak that spurred me to think of this thread. I have no idea what Hitler was saying, but you could feel the fire behind it!


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    #28
    CDfm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    It was a documentary of him and watching him speak that spurred me to think of this thread. I have no idea what Hitler was saying, but you could feel the fire behind it!

    Exactly, and JFK beat Nixon in the presedential election for his use of media.

    So do we have a media star in Irish History.


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    #29
    delta_bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,567 ✭✭✭delta_bravo


    "Ye can have Boland, but ye can't have Fianna Fail"


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    #30
    patsman07
    Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭patsman07


    PatsytheNazi wrote: »
    " In modern history, Paisley has been by far the greatest orator IMO. " :eek: In fairness you stated - I say that very begrudgingly. But you've fallen for the whole purpose of the black propaganda that has been spewed out by so called 'opinion makers' of Conor Cruise O'Brien, Eoghan Harris, Garret Fitzgerald etc - to dress up servility to the corrupt and perverted as "been able to accept all traditions on the island of Ireland......our maturity as a nation blah, blah, blah ".

    He was about as great an orator as Idi Amin or Jackie Healy Rae - though in fairness to Jackie he never spouted the secterian hatred of Paisley. About all Paisley could ever say was, " NO...NEVER....NO...NO SURRENDER...NEVER " :rolleyes: Some orator indeed.

    You've got me all wrong. I have no time for the likes of Eoghan Harris and CC O'Brien. As other posters have stated, this is about public speaking. To me that means disregarding the politics of what is being said and focusing on the delivery of the message.

    David Norris I think is also a good speaker. (Hard to believe Paisley and David Norris can be mentioned in the same post!)


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    #31
    sheesh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭sheesh


    not so sure about dev anybody hear a recording of the speech he made in the US after 1916 and the executions. I thought it was quiet impressive, not in a loud bellowing way but more of a lament.

    in modern times:

    I think no one does incredulity like Pat Rabbite.

    Micheal Noonan Used to do very entertaining Budget day speeches.

    Suprisingly enough (if you listened to him speaking on TV) John O donohue can knock out a good speech.

    mind you none of the above would inspire me to follow them.


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