Invite difficult person for coffee or leave it?

LegacyUser · 16-09-2020 10:30am #1

I posted here months ago about my cousin's girlfriend, who, due to having no family or friends of her own, has basically sunken her claws into all my family members.

She decided that she didn't want me (of similar age and pretty outgoing, like herself) around, so she started to slowly turn everyone against me and I ended up left out in the cold. It was horrible.

Fast forward a few months later. My family have realised what was going on all along as Jane has shown her true colours in several ways, and have apologised. My cousin whom I was closest to said she made a huge mistake trusting her over me and that would never happen again.

But... Jane is still here. She physically beats my cousin (her boyfriend) in front of people when she loses her temper. And she's STILL here. She still refuses to speak to me. Which is fine because I'm happy enough not engaging with her anyway. She also made a nasty comment to me recently out of the blue at my cousin's 30th which everyone heard and she was called out on.

But still, her and my female cousin (made more complicated as their boyfriends are best friends now, so it's essentially a foursome)do things without me.

I am considering asking Jane to go for coffee to settle our differences. I don't really think I should as I genuinely never wronged her, and she displays narcissistic tendencies, but at least I could say I tried. I don't know if this is being done as an act of desperation however just to be invited to social gatherings, which she may sense, and I guess would be sad.

I'm confused. It's just been awful.

Should I extend that olive branch or leave it?

Xterminator · 16-09-2020 11:12am

Do you think having a coffee with a nasty person will mean they are not nasty afterwards?

Or do you think she is a decent person, and you can clear up some misunderstandings?

If it is the first scenario then the only way to get this person to be nice(er) to you is to appease her, suck up to her and hope she chooses a different target IE someone else, not you.

You clearly don't think it is the second scenario from your post .. that is my reading of the situation.

Seems very straightforward to me. I would approach the situation as saying if she apologises for things she has said that you know about, and agrees not to badmouth you again, you will let bygones be bygones. And there probably is not a chance in hell o that happening!

Shelli2 · 16-09-2020 11:36am

I would not meet this clearly unhinged manipulative person alone, from what I've read here and your previous posts, she's likely to twist the whole thing and would report lies back to anyone who will listen.

Your family have seen her true colours, leave her to it.

Oink · 16-09-2020 11:52am

Sorry but:
“She physically beats my cousin (her boyfriend) in front of people when she loses her temper.”

Your cousin is in an abusive relationship.
The girlfriend is an abuser. I assume you can’t tell your cousin “well sure just leave her problem solved”. However it sounds like no one is thinking about that.

I was raised with a strict zero-tolerance policy on abuse and bullying, and I am amazed that she is even allowed in the house.

You can’t force help on your cousin if he doesn’t want it, but surely you don’t have to tolerate the sight of that scumbag.

16-09-2020 12:03pm

Leave it. People like this aren't worth the effort. It would only end up biting you in the end; in general, the best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Tork · 16-09-2020 12:32pm

Oink wrote: »

I was raised with a strict zero-tolerance policy on abuse and bullying, and I am amazed that she is even allowed in the house.

I doubt your cousin's family want her in the house either but they've been put in a no-win situation here. If she's told she's not welcome, it could lead to your cousin not visiting either. I'm sure they'd all love nothing better than for your cousin to break up with her but in the meantime, all they can do is silently support him. If the time comes when he starts to have doubts about her, it's important that he has a good relationship with his family and that they can support and advise him.

Going back to your question, I believe going for a coffee with this woman is an appalling idea. I can't see anything good coming from this attempt to play amateur psychologist. The potential for this to backfire on you is enormous. Why can't you be happy with how things are now. Most of your family now see Jane for what she is and you've been welcomed back into the fold. This isn't a Hollywood family drama where everyone makes friends in the end. Don't poke the bear - you will regret it.

HildaOgdenx · 16-09-2020 12:56pm

Tork wrote: »

Going back to your question, I believe going for a coffee with this woman is an appalling idea. I can't see anything good coming from this attempt to play amateur psychologist. The potential for this to backfire on you is enormous. Why can't you be happy with how things are now. Most of your family now see Jane for what she is and you've been welcomed back into the fold. This isn't a Hollywood family drama where everyone makes friends in the end. Don't poke the bear - you will regret it.

This pretty much sums up what I was about to post. OP, I'm not sure why you would even want to go there, tbh. I don't remember your previous posts, but you mention that her true colours have now been seen by others. That's good. That doesn't always happen.

So be glad of that. Take several giant steps back from ever being in the same place as her, except when it's unavoidable such as family get togethers. Protect yourself from her.

Leave your cousins to it, the one who is in a relationship with her, and the one who socialises with her. They are adults who can make their own choices. You are far better off away from all of that.

December2012 · 16-09-2020 1:18pm

She is not your problem to solve. Leave well alone.

Tork · 16-09-2020 2:07pm

Is part of you harking back to the days when you and your cousins were growing up and had no boyfriends/girlfriends on the scene? It is unusual for somebody to continue be so tight with their cousins into adulthood and it makes me wonder are you struggling to accept that the family is evolving and drifting?

Apart from the worrying parts about Jane's behaviour towards your cousin, this caught my eye

But... Jane is still here .... her and my female cousin (made more complicated as their boyfriends are best friends now, so it's essentially a foursome) do things without me.

Even if Jane wasn't on the scene but someone nicer, this might still happen. Are you expecting too much from your coupled up cousins by any chance? You'll often have two couples doing things together and not inviting anyone else. Maybe it's time you flew the nest and concentrated more on your own friends.

valoren · 16-09-2020 4:12pm

The actual person you should be arranging to have a coffee with is your cousin. Some alone time together with the specific topic being how his girlfriend beats him when she loses her temper sounds like what he might need. What you need to convey to him is that this is not acceptable, that it is unhinged and is most certainly not normal. You don't hit someone you love. He might become frustratingly defensive, back up his girlfriend, claim that he loves her, say she's not perfect, has had a tough time etc etc but simply say that there are plenty of people who have problems and issues but they don't lash out and hit their partners. Sounds like she isn't with him that long and is already hitting him. Is that what he wants in his life? Ask him what he would think if YOU started hitting him in frustration there and then. Would he buy into whatever reason you might conjure up to justify it?

After saying your piece it's up to him if he's happy to continue being in an abusive relationship or if he needs to grow a pair and dump this toxic person but you'll have at a minimum steered him towards some badly needed self reflection and if he chooses to continue seeing this person then he'll at least grasp that he was forewarned.

ILoveYourVibes · 17-09-2020 12:49am

I would avoid all contact with let's say 'Jane' at all costs.

If you want to meet cousins ...or family do so just you and them. One on one etc.

Tell them you don't want anything to do with her and you would appreciate if they didn't say they met you. They probably don't want to tell her anyway.

Listen in my experience if adults haven't learned to be good judges of character ....they keep making the same misjudgments over and over ..and surround themselves with awful people...

I tend to now avoid people who have bad judgement as much as i avoid bad people.

bobbyy gee · 17-09-2020 12:53am

I would leave her no. Need to make friends with her wait until her boyfriend man's up and leaves her

ILoveYourVibes · 17-09-2020 12:55am

bobbyy gee wrote: »

I would leave her no. Need to make friends with her wait until her boyfriend man's up and leaves her

I agree. It might take a while though. Or it might never happen.

Still i would NOT take this girl to coffee.

bobbyy gee · 17-09-2020 12:56am

Mens aid
https://www.mensaid.ie/

woodenwonder · 17-09-2020 3:46am

No way would I meet her. Don't negotiate with terrorists!

But perhaps send your cousin a few articles from me said.ie let him know he's not alone and what she is doing is wrong.

ManOfMystery · 17-09-2020 9:02am

I think you are clinging on to an ideal that underneath Jane's toxic exterior, there is some good part of her that will engage with you over coffee and you'll both brush all this under the carpet.

It's a pipe dream.

Jane has proven herself to be toxic : narcissistic, manipulative, cruel, physically abusive, and so on. The most likely outcome of this is that even if it happens, you'll meet for coffee and then she'll go back and tell everyone you poured coffee over her head.

She's taking up too much space in your head - as with any other toxicity in your life, you need to remove her from it. You don't need her.

Hannibal_Smith · 17-09-2020 9:23am

Jane has latched on to the only person in the family that hasn't seen her for what she is. Or maybe they do see it, but is trying to watch out for the cousin in the nasty relationship.

They do things without you. Does that mean you're missing out? Of course not. You're avoiding spending time with a person who has called you names and tried to destroy your relationship with your family. Not being invited to hang out is nothing to lament.

What has the cousin (Jane's boyfriend) said about the rumours she's spread about you?

StinkyMunkey · 18-09-2020 11:30am

Leave well enough alone.

You can't stop someone from being a narcissist, all you would be doing is making yourself a target.

Spend time and energy on people who matter.

Her ilk always get found out for who they are, best not to let yourself get dragged into the drama that is her life.

Personally I wouldn't even acknowledge it exists, let alone try make friends with it.

Rubberchikken · 18-09-2020 8:47pm

Avoid her. She's not worth bothering with.

It sounds awful that she treats your cousin that way. Maybe if she's called out on it each time she does it in company he may eventually are her for what she is - an abusive horrible person.

ongarboy · 20-09-2020 2:04pm

whattodo11 wrote: »

I posted here months ago about my cousin's girlfriend, who, due to having no family or friends of her own, has basically sunken her claws into all my family members.

But still, her and my female cousin (made more complicated as their boyfriends are best friends now, so it's essentially a foursome)do things without me.

OP, I remember you posting about this before and you seemingly have ignored all the good advice given then.

2 paragraphs jumped out at me from your OP. You say Jane has no friends or family but all I see is you having no friends or family beyond this unhealthy cousin dependency. Many people barely know their cousins once they reach adulthood, not to mind their cousins partners. Why are you so involved in their lives? You are not responsible for your cousin's unfortunate choice of women. It's not your place to highlight it to grown adults or to extend olive branches. Just remove yourself from this social circle that causes you nothing but anguish and find a new social circle.

Secondly, in the second paragraph, you state they are doing things "without you". Why wouldn't they? They're entitled to socialize as a foursome if they so choose to. They've no obligation to include you in anything they do. Not being harsh but maybe they have reason to exclude you if you carry on the way you do. No one likes clingy friends with unrealistic expectations. You having an issue with not being part of their various plans reinforces your unhealthy dependency on these people and you're using Jane as a red herring. Yes, she sounds vile but the crux of the issue is you continuing to intertwine and immerse yourself in this group instead of finding new friends to socialize/hang out with.

Blush_01 · 20-09-2020 2:30pm

ongarboy wrote: »

OP, I remember you posting about this before and you seemingly have ignored all the good advice given then.

2 paragraphs jumped out at me from your OP. You say Jane has no friends or family but all I see is you having no friends or family beyond this unhealthy cousin dependency. Many people barely know their cousins once they reach adulthood, not to mind their cousins partners. Why are you so involved in their lives? You are not responsible for your cousin's unfortunate choice of women. It's not your place to highlight it to grown adults or to extend olive branches. Just remove yourself from this social circle that causes you nothing but anguish and find a new social circle.

Secondly, in the second paragraph, you state they are doing things "without you". Why wouldn't they? They're entitled to socialize as a foursome if they so choose to. They've no obligation to include you in anything they do. Not being harsh but maybe they have reason to exclude you if you carry on the way you do. No one likes clingy friends with unrealistic expectations. You having an issue with not being part of their various plans reinforces your unhealthy dependency on these people and you're using Jane as a red herring. Yes, she sounds vile but the crux of the issue is you continuing to intertwine and immerse yourself in this group instead of finding new friends to socialize/hang out with.

What's wrong with your cousins also being your friends? I have lots of cousins on my Dad's side I'm close to, I shared a house with one for years when we were working in the same city, we were in and out of each other's houses before COVID-19, and in general the group of c. 20 cousins keep in regular contact, especially the ones closest to us geographically.

On my mother's side I also shared a house with cousins, we're not as close because we're geographically further apart, but this whole idea of not being close to your cousins as adults is nonsense, every family is different and your cousins are people, they're not mandated to be strangers once you hit a certain age.

ongarboy · 20-09-2020 5:47pm

Blush_01 wrote: »

What's wrong with your cousins also being your friends? I have lots of cousins on my Dad's side I'm close to, I shared a house with one for years when we were working in the same city, we were in and out of each other's houses before COVID-19, and in general the group of c. 20 cousins keep in regular contact, especially the ones closest to us geographically.

On my mother's side I also shared a house with cousins, we're not as close because we're geographically further apart, but this whole idea of not being close to your cousins as adults is nonsense, every family is different and your cousins are people, they're not mandated to be strangers once you hit a certain age.

You're missing my point. A couple of my closest friends are also my first cousins too and I did a year in Australia with one of them. However, if I was involved in a toxic dynamic with cousins whose partners were causing me grief or where they socialize independently of me, I wouldn't consistently be trying to hang off them or expect them to involve me in their lives so closely as the OP seems to want...just because they're cousins. Sometimes you just need to expand or move on to other social circles if you're not getting what you want or need in existing circles. The grief that OP is enduring is simply not worth staying with such cousins in a for better or worse scenario.

Zebrag · 20-09-2020 8:34pm

Leave it. For your own sanity.

God only knows what she would be like in person. She could well and truly turn on the innocent act and make you think it's all in your head or she could turn nasty and make you feel worst than you already do. It's not wroth the stress and it's certainly not worth the time.

You've said other family members have copped onto her behaviour, that's good and that's all you need. For the one person Jane is latching onto, they are their own person and they can make their own choices and opinions so unfortunately you can't make someone see who someone else really is. They will soon find out.

For now, leave it and continue your life. As far as your concerned, Jane and her business has nothing to do with you

Pistachio19 · 21-09-2020 3:55pm

You'd be foolish to engage with her at all, let alone ask her for a coffee. I agree with a previous poster regarding your involvement in your cousins lives? Maybe it's time to concentrate on your other friends and leave the cousins to hang out with Jane if they wish. Surely with the restrictions surrounding gatherings and house visits that we are all under, you have the perfect excuse to avoid Jane altogether.

Katgurl · 22-09-2020 2:58pm

I think posters honing in on the people being cousins are really missing the point. What would your advice be if she just said close friends or siblings?

Anyway OP it is truly horrible to feel left out but try to change your perspective on it. Meet up with your female cousin without the rest of them. Let your male cousin (Jane's boyfriend) you're always there for chats or whatever. Jane will hang herself, it's already begun. Don't enquire after her or her actions, it is understandably stressing you out. Be patient.

Definitely do not meet up with her. Avoid avoid avoid.

Blush_01 · 23-09-2020 6:06pm

ongarboy wrote: »

You're missing my point. A couple of my closest friends are also my first cousins too and I did a year in Australia with one of them. However, if I was involved in a toxic dynamic with cousins whose partners were causing me grief or where they socialize independently of me, I wouldn't consistently be trying to hang off them or expect them to involve me in their lives so closely as the OP seems to want...just because they're cousins. Sometimes you just need to expand or move on to other social circles if you're not getting what you want or need in existing circles. The grief that OP is enduring is simply not worth staying with such cousins in a for better or worse scenario.

Or maybe OP made the point that they're cousins because the relationship links back to other family members so it's more complex than having a friend who isn't connected to half of your family, where you can break ties if needs be without causing a family feud, or where everyone you've been surrounded by all your life isn't being fed a pack of lies about you. With non-family friendships there's a higher likelihood your extended family will rarely, if ever, meet those friends.

The OP stating the nature of the relationship(s) was necessary for context. Whether her cousins are her friends or not isn't actually what she asked for advice with.

OP, I wouldn't be foing out of my way to befriend someone who is actively working to blacken my name.

80j2lc5y7u6qs9 · 05-10-2020 12:07am

What did thefamily do when they realise what she is like , you say she is still accepted by hem

Invite difficult person for coffee or leave it?

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