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Vatican issues document rejecting idea that people can choose or change gender

  • 10-06-2019 10:12pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    What can you say anymore about the RCC. They are just determined to destroy themselves from the inside. Remember they control our schools.

    The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

    Pope Francis has repeatedly argued the position that people cannot choose their genders.
    The document called for a new alliance among families, schools and society to offer a “positive and prudent sexual education” in Catholic schools so children learn the “full original truth of masculinity and femininity”.

    It called gender fluidity a symptom of the “confused concept of freedom” and “momentary desires” that characterise post-modern culture.

    It rejected terms such as “intersex” and “transgender” and said the purpose of the biological “complementarity” of the male and female sex organs was to ensure procreation.






    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/vatican-rejects-idea-people-can-choose-or-change-genders-1.3921015


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    But they can't, its science


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 772 ✭✭✭FFred


    Man has Willy.
    Woman has front bum.
    End.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,687 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    It shouldn't be a grey area.

    It isn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,940 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Anyone else snigger when they opened the link and saw Offred... I mean Pope Francis.

    To thine own self be true



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Does anyone really care what the RCC thinks anymore?

    I just sympathise with any transgender person who is treated badly or ostracized because their family follow church teaching. These statements cause suffering to real people but the RCC don't give a fcuk about that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,348 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Church has issue with people who don't conform to their worldview

    Meh.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    How has transgender sh1te become so mainstream the pope is commenting on it


    Afaik its less than 1% of population it affects??


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    I'm confused. If they're saying that it's impossible to change ones biological sex then that's obviously true.

    But isn't gender different?


    It's foolish to deny the existence of transgenderism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Does anyone really care what the RCC thinks anymore?

    I just sympathise with any transgender person who is treated badly or ostracized because their family follow church teaching. These statements cause suffering to real people but the RCC don't give a fcuk about that.


    They do, and in the article there are examples of many members of the Catholic Church who disagree with the official document. I would have sympathy for anyone who is treated badly too regardless of their circumstances, so saying that the RCC don’t give a fcuk about that is clearly untrue. It’s a great deal more nuanced than that.

    You’re also overlooking the fact that many more people who aren’t religious in the slightest, will argue against the idea that people can change their gender, and their disagreement with the idea has it’s foundations in science and politics as opposed to religion. My point is that people don’t have to be followers of any religion to be just as likely to ostracise people who don’t share their beliefs.

    That also causes suffering to real people, but I would never say you don’t give a fcuk about that, because I know you always have done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Muslims at it again.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Church Liberals has issue with people who don't conform to their worldview

    Not Meh.

    FYP


  • Posts: 0 Journee Short Yak


    So we're relying on the RCC to state the bleeding obvious now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    For celibate folk who cant marry they really spend a lot of time thinking about sex, kids marriage and other **** they have no experience of.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    For celibate folk who cant marry they really spend a lot of time thinking about sex, kids marriage and other **** they have no experience of.

    Your very naive if you think likes of priests/cardinals etc dont have sex :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    _blaaz wrote: »
    Your very naive if you think likes of priests/cardinals etc dont have sex :D

    Well they clearly are, because that would be a sin. Lying about it would be another sin.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    It's simply not possible to change gender anyway, It's cosmetic only. Maybe science will eventually come up with a way, but thats many years away at least. But I srtopped listening to what the church had to say in primary school


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭policarp


    I think from day 1 babies have their wires wired.
    If they are heterosexual, LGBT, kleptomaniac, bipolar or normal that will be their path in life.
    I don't think the Catholic Church can change that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,543 ✭✭✭Dante7


    I agree with a lot of what was written in this, but they made a huge mistake by trying to deny the existence of Intersex people. Science was actually with them up until that point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    Anyone that pays any attention to this bunch are fools.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,658 ✭✭✭policarp


    Anyone that pays any attention to this bunch are fools.

    Good man Lucifer.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    My friends call me Lou. Well, if I had any. They might. Probably not though .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    What can you say anymore about the RCC. They are just determined to destroy themselves from the inside. Remember they control our schools.

    The Vatican has issued an official document rejecting the idea that people can choose or change their genders and insisting on the sexual “complementarity” of men and women to make babies.

    Firstly the Catholic Church, of which I am not a member, is hardly going to change its views to conform to every crazy fad. Secondly the trans stuff is often insane.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    You’re also overlooking the fact that many more people who aren’t religious in the slightest, will argue against the idea that people can change their gender, and their disagreement with the idea has it’s foundations in science and politics as opposed to religion. My point is that people don’t have to be followers of any religion to be just as likely to ostracise people who don’t share their beliefs.

    A science denier speaks.
    So we're relying on the RCC to state the bleeding obvious now?
    Dante7 wrote: »
    I agree with a lot of what was written in this, but they made a huge mistake by trying to deny the existence of Intersex people. Science was actually with them up until that point.
    Snotty wrote: »
    Wow I agree with the church, that's a first.

    Transgender is a mental illness and those people need help/support, we should not be denying biology just to not offend anyone.

    Ooh look the armchair experts to deny trans people their existence! Hallelujah!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    klaaaz wrote: »
    A science denier speaks.


    Oh do me a favour, you’re just boring now :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    Oh do me a favour, you’re just boring now :rolleyes:

    Poor you, we had this conversation before where you denied the opinion of thousands of scientists. Must be awfully embarrassing for you!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    klaaaz wrote: »
    A science denier speaks.







    Ooh look the armchair experts to deny trans people their existence! Hallelujah!

    We are all armchair experts here I would assume. There’s no science to transgenderism. It’s a ideology formed in the fever swamps of American identity politics, driven by American cultural imperialism and corporate interests.

    It’s also self contradictory. If gender is a social construct then that means that it is something imposed on people by society, rather than being inate or biological.

    A person with a vagina is treated as a gendered woman and thus acts like a woman. A person with a penis is treated as a man and thus acts like a man.

    This is basically gender theory. However trans people manage to both overcome biological reality and the social construction of gender and get to decide their gender, which should be impossible for something that is either biological or socially decided.

    Where this “real gender” comes from is something not explained, since it’s not biological. Must be a soul.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Snotty wrote: »
    Wow I agree with the church, that's a first.

    Transgender is a mental illness and those people need help/support, we should not be denying biology just to not offend anyone.
    If it were a mental illness though, why isn't it just treated as a mental illness? It is initially (which I think it should be, to eliminate the possibility) but when that avenue is explored, things are taken to the next stage for good reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭klaaaz


    We are all armchair experts here I would assume. There’s no science to transgenderism. It’s a ideology formed in the fever swamps of American identity politics, driven by American cultural imperialism and corporate interests.

    No, people have changed sex since the 1950's, it's nothing new. And it's nothing about imported American identity crap.
    It’s also self contradictory. If gender is a social construct then that means that it is something imposed on people by society, rather than being inate or biological.

    A person with a vagina is treated as a gendered woman and thus acts like a woman. A person with a penis is treated as a man and thus acts like a man.

    This is basically gender theory. However trans people manage to both overcome biological reality and the social construction of gender and get to decide their gender, which should be impossible for something that is either biological or socially decided.

    Where this “real gender” comes from is something not explained, since it’s not biological. Must be a soul.

    What? Their brains mismatch the body to put it simply, hence they change sex. There is nothing new about this as people have changed sex since the 1950's, nearly 70 years now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,442 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    klaaaz wrote: »
    Poor you, we had this conversation before where you denied the opinion of thousands of scientists. Must be awfully embarrassing for you!


    I didn’t deny the opinion of thousands of scientists at all. I disagreed with your interpretation of their opinions. They’re two very different things. Scientists disagree on fundamental concepts within their fields of expertise all the time and it’s not embarrassing for anyone, it’s how people gain knowledge and understanding of our world - through dialogue and discussion and the development of ideas. Quite the opposite of what you try to do by attempting to shut down anyone’s opinions you disagree with. Fortunately you just don’t have the kind of power it takes to dictate what other people should think for themselves.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 474 ✭✭Former Observer


    klaaaz wrote: »
    A science denier

    Lol. What age are you? Twelve?


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