New Worldwide Handicap System

prawnsambo wrote: »

Regarding the fears of banditry. I've tried to work out how you could do this, but if the purpose is to save up a handicap for a big prize event or whatever, it would have to be very, very well planned out. With a 20 round look back, that's almost half the year for regular golfers, which would mean dragging your arse around the back of the field pretty much throughout the main season.

Trust me, I know people who have been quite open to me about doing this (on a similar system to what we are heading for) knowing they can get away with throwing a few doubles on their card because they are in a fourball comp and their partner has the points secured so they can "mind" their own handicap.

Russman wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.
You'd want to have a pretty good head to be carrying around your best 6 of last 20 scores, and what rounds will be dropping out when you complete your current round etc. etc. That's before considering how a 16 handicapper delivers a good round to order. I'd have thought the new system makes it more complicated than currently simply accumulating 0.1s.

I think once we are using it, we will know and understand it a lot better and just like we know if we are .1 away from an increase now, in the future we will know what a net 70, 75 or 80 will do to our handicap.

I say we, but I understand not all golfers are dialled in that deep, but lets face it, we are all golf nerds here aren't we!!!

Seve OB wrote: »

I think once we are using it, we will know and understand it a lot better and just like we know if we are .1 away from an increase now, in the future we will know what a net 70, 75 or 80 will do to our handicap.

I say we, but I understand not all golfers are dialled in that deep, but lets face it, we are all golf nerds here aren't we!!!

The thing is, it's not just your eight best that you have to keep track of, but all twenty as well. A bad round might only have the effect of bringing your ninth best round into play and will have no effect in itself.

yea but no. you don't need to know all your scores.

i'll try summarise and hopefully you get the gist.

all you actually need to know going out for a game is, is card 20 one of your best? what is your worst card of your best 8? and what is your best score of your other cards?

is 20 one of the best? yes, then you can already work out what your handicap will jump to if you shoot outside your best 8 range

is 20 already a dud, then you know your handicap wont change if you shoot outside your best 8 range

now if you shoot inside the range, you know what is dropping and what you average is, better than average will mean a cut, worse will mean an increase

easy peasy

Had a quick try using the formula posted earlier in here just for my last twenty scores in my home club.

GUI is 9.6

For my last 20 rounds, using a Multiplier of 0.93 I get 9.576, using 0.96 I get 9.885, so pretty marginal difference on that basis for me.

Throw in my round from New Forest in the middle of the year & I'd imagine it would take a big hit downwards, but I don't have the rating/slope for the course so can't really generate a meaningful number for it

mike12 wrote: »

How will the system work for inter clubs and scratch cups.
Say the junior cup is on a hard course and your index on that course will drop under the handicap for the comp same for say a scratch cup

Not 100% sure I’m correct here, but I think you’ll have your handicap index of, let’s say, 4.0 at the cutoff point, but your course handicap for a given venue may be different. I’d assume the rules for eligibility would be based on your base index rather than your course handicap....? It’d be the same for all 4.0 indexes so the venue wouldn’t really matter.

Folks

Just came across this as I've been away from the game for a few years

Am, this sounds nuts? Can you basically set your own handicap? It's based on best 8 scores from last 20 rounds? And practice rounds are counting?

So coming up to whatever competition you want to target you can play 20 rounds (including rounds of just 9 holes), play deliberate muck for those rounds, and set your handicap?

Is this correct or am I wide of the mark? (Not going reading 100+ pages of the new system rules)

prawnsambo wrote: »

Casual rounds have been part of the handicap system for some time now. Nobody bothers putting the cards in though. And fair play to anyone who's able to play twenty rounds in a couple of weeks.

Well say 3 weeks so? Let's say you don't have children or any huge obstacles that prevent you from golfing. You're a teacher and have the summer off. You could easily play your 20 rounds in 3 weeks, especially if 9 hole rounds count. It's not that inconceivable really......

G1032 wrote: »

Well say 3 weeks so? Let's say you don't have children or any huge obstacles that prevent you from golfing. You're a teacher and have the summer off. You could easily play your 20 rounds in 3 weeks, especially if 9 hole rounds count. It's not that inconceivable really......

It's still difficult. You also have to have somebody with you to mark your card. You also have to note your intention to put the card in before you start your round. Nine hole scores have been qualifying for years too, so that's not new either. And you're completely ignoring the fact that handicap committees would spot this behaviour a mile out.

Also individual hole scores are limited to nett double bogey, so a quad bogey (for example) could be stepped back to a double. There is also a 'memory of demonstrated ability' caveat in the system that has yet to be defined, but which would seem to be designed to filter out the kind of sandbagging you're suggesting.

The best bit of the new system imo, is that it now means that you can go abroad and play in opens with your new WHS handicap.

gypsy79 wrote: »

I am not sure opens are as prevalent abroad.

In fact now that you can declare a round before a game for handicapping purposes some have speculated it may be the end of opens?

That's been the case for a while now. At least two years iirc. Not sure why that would make any difference to open competitions though. Clubs hold opens usually to get people in playing on quiet days and they're good for funds. Players enter them to get a cheaper green fee and play other courses. And no, there wouldn't be as many open competitions as here. They're more in the line of tournaments than the kind of weekly opens we have here or in the UK.

GreeBo wrote: »

But isn't the issue that all the 4.0 indexes are only 4.0 on their own course?
Maybe some will be 5.0 on the venue and maybe others will be 3.0, which is kinda confusing. (to me!)

I think the index is calculated to take the slope and course rating out of the 'handicap'. A kind of base level off a hypothetical base level course.

Edit: Yep, here's one I prepared earlier:

prawnsambo wrote: »

Let's take an 8 handicapper from Castlemartyr (White tees SR 120, CR 70, Par 72). On 01/11/2020 the best 8 of his last 20 rounds average 81.2. His handicap index is thus ((81.2 * 96%) - 70) * 113 / 120 = 7.48.

So now he goes out and plays the white tees again. His course handicap is (7.48 * 120 / 113) + (70-72) = 5.95 (6). If he plays off the blue tees (SR 133, CR 73, Par 72), his handicap is (7.48 * 133 /113) + (73-72) = 9.8 (10).

GreeBo wrote: »

But isn't the issue that all the 4.0 indexes are only 4.0 on their own course?
Maybe some will be 5.0 on the venue and maybe others will be 3.0, which is kinda confusing. (to me!)

My understanding (which could be completely wrong !) is that your index could be, say, 4.0 but your course handicap on your home layout could be different depending on the slope and course ratings of it. So your index is 4.0 but off the white tees in your home course you're off 4.6 maybe.

I thought it was different from the above, so if a group of golfers from different clubs who all have say a 10 handicap index go play a open they will all be playing off the same handicap?

My understanding was that if u go play a harder course than your own u would get more shots and a easier course u would get less.

Say from roganstown I have a 10 index, if I go play Swords open I thought it would mean I play off 8, if I go play the European I would play off 12.

prawnsambo wrote: »

You're both right. Can't see anything in Russman's post that contradicts that.
Your handicap index is independent of any course/set of tees. Your handicap will change from course to course and set of tees to set of tees.

I think my original question was say for a junior scratch cup where the cut off was 5,
U could go to one course and be in theory playing off 3, if they want a level playing field should the cutoff be your playing handicap for that course.

Russman wrote: »

My understanding (which could be completely wrong !) is that your index could be, say, 4.0 but your course handicap on your home layout could be different depending on the slope and course ratings of it. So your index is 4.0 but off the white tees in your home course you're off 4.6 maybe.

So how do they (fairly) calculate everyones index if its based on your home course rating (which can vary wildly depending on the time of year it gets rated)?

GreeBo wrote: »

So how do they (fairly) calculate everyones index if its based on your home course rating (which can vary wildly depending on the time of year it gets rated)?

Your handicap index is your base handicap, example, I'm an 11 handicap at the moment on a very hard course. So my index could be, say 9, meaning 9 is my handicap that will be adjusted based on the course slope. I'd be a 8 on an easy course or could be a 13 if I was playing Augusta.