Were You Ever in A situation Where a Class Was Unteachable and How Did You Handle it?

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 1:34am #1

I remember teaching, post qualifying with my H.Dip in Ed, in a school which I reckoned was the worst school you could teach in where you would not be under a threat of physical violence.

I didn't last long and never really taught again.

After escaping, of course as I lived in the same city as the kids, I had to put up with name calling on the street, being followed around a shop and 2 of them pushing another one of them at me as I was walking down the street passed them.

A neighbour, who did her H. Dip there and who is an exceptionally nice person was kicked and punched down there!

Another lad, I got to know who has taught in several schools distinctly remembered it being an absolute nightmare!

My question to teachers out there is. were you ever in a similar school/experience anything like that and how did you handle it?
What's the secret to surviving a nightmare?

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 12:23pm

So, judging by the lack of reponses, no teacher or past teacher on here, ever faced a classroom like that?

doc_17 · 23-08-2018 5:28pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

So, judging by the lack of s, no teacher or past teacher on here, ever faced a classroom like that?

Without identifying the school, are we talking big city here?

spurious · 23-08-2018 6:51pm

Of course people have had similar experiences.

They may not want to link themselves to report of them on the internet, for a number of reasons. Being involved with the union, I have heard of many instances of unbelievable abuse suffered by teachers. I personally did not have any major events, but the general low level threats and inability/unwillingness of management to get rid of the tiny number of students who caused all the serious trouble and took up hours and hours of teacher and class time, were enough to make me leave the job early.

I personally know a teacher who was punched and knocked out by someone's darling teen and nothing was done, no suspension, no calling the guards, nothing. The same violent yob was swaggering around the school (out of class of course) the next day, sneering at us all.

I know a woman (different school) who while pregnant was told 'I'll kick the baby out of you' by someone else's darling.

I visited schools where the blackboard would be full of lumps of phlegm spat at teachers.

I could go on all night.

It's not all 'Dead Poet's Society'.

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:23pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Without identifying the school, are we talking big city here?

It was in Galway City and at the time, it was widely known as the worst school in the country to teach in outside of Dublin!

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:28pm

spurious wrote: »

Of course people have had similar experiences.

They may not want to link themselves to report of them on the internet, for a number of reasons. Being involved with the union, I have heard of many instances of unbelievable abuse suffered by teachers. I personally did not have any major events, but the general low level threats and inability/unwillingness of management to get rid of the tiny number of students who caused all the serious trouble and took up hours and hours of teacher and class time, were enough to make me leave the job early.

I personally know a teacher who was punched and knocked out by someone's darling teen and nothing was done, no suspension, no calling the guards, nothing. The same violent yob was swaggering around the school (out of class of course) the next day, sneering at us all.

I know a woman (different school) who while pregnant was told 'I'll kick the baby out of you' by someone else's darling.

I visited schools where the blackboard would be full of lumps of phlegm spat at teachers.

I could go on all night.

It's not all 'Dead Poet's Society'.

I heard of a case and this is dating back to the 90s where a lad on the H. Dip. was punched by a thug outside a nightclub, who he had been teaching! Because it happened outside the school, he was able to take a case and got to Italia 90 with the out of court settlement!

Another friend of mine, told me that when she was teaching in Dublin, a sprog in that school, who she fortunately wasn't teaching, killed his brother in a row and as there was no place to put him for his age the lovely authorities just sent him back to school!

There seems to be no support from unions or management for teachers putting up with this sort of madness!

spurious · 23-08-2018 9:35pm

Truly, you would be talking about maybe 3-4% of students making life hell for the others.

It used to break my heart to watch solid kids come in every day and try their best, despite having to listen to hours of the teachers' time being taken up dealing with this small group.

Crazier still, were the 'incentives' that gave the troublemakers a certificate or a treat for staying out of trouble for a week. - all the time being watched by the decent kids, who stay out of trouble all year and get no certs/treats/trips out. Madness.

Some people may not recognise this sort of carry on at all, but those who teach in a minority of schools will.

Notorious · 23-08-2018 9:36pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

There seems to be no support from unions or management for teachers putting up with this sort of madness!

Personally I haven't been made aware of a lack of support from the union, but it is evident in management. I think part of the issue is that some principals are of the opinion that a high rate of exclusion makes them look bad.

I've a friend who teaches in a school where there is no suspension. If a teacher wants to issue a detention then that teacher has to host the detention. On the surface the figures make it look like the school has the countries best behavior management system, but in reality classes are unbearable as the students know they can get away with murder.

spurious wrote:

It used to break my heart to watch solid kids come in every day and try their best, despite having to listen to hours of the teachers' time being taken up dealing with this small group.

I feel the exact same. I've had groups where one or two students cause the teacher heartache from first to sixth year. I'm convinced that there is students who leave the school without reaching their potential, but who would have had a much better chance were they in a different group without said misbehaving students.

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:40pm

My question is not does it happen, but how do teachers cope with it, when it does?

I went to a school where the opposite occurred!

One dog wearing sublimated paedorast shoved paper down my throat obviously enacting out a felatial fantasy!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:
He was eventually got rid of when he kicked 2 x 13 year old children in their faces on our 3rd year corridor, we heard the commotion going on at the time!:mad::mad:
I have spoken to others who had the experience of this sadistic psychopath and they recounted having things like their head being hopped off a radiator, their ass groped when they were 13, a teacher trying to intervene when he was smashing a child's head off a wall and being told to eff off as he continued to do it and a work colleague of mine with epilepsy having to get a note from his parents so this animal wouldn't beat him up again!:mad::mad::mad::mad:
People who endured him said he was by far and away the most frothing @ the mouth insane lunatic they ever met in their lives and he's in his 90s on a big state pension for services rendered today!:mad:

Notorious · 23-08-2018 9:46pm

Connacht15 wrote: »

My question is not does it happen, but how do teachers cope with it, when it does?

I've had bad classes, but thankfully never one that couldn't be brought back from the brink. I'm lucky that management are very supportive. Generally I'd remove a student from the room - I take their desk and place it just outside the door. If they persist from outside the class or refuse to leave, I'd shoot a quick text to management and they'd be removed.

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:47pm

How come some teachers would never experience hassle when others in the same school do?
That is not in any way to blame those putting up with a nightmare, I'm trying to find out the secret!
In boys' schools involvement in sport is a big thing helping!

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:49pm

I (a male) had more trouble with girls in the situation that I was in than I had with boys!

Connacht15 · 23-08-2018 9:51pm

It's almost impossible to conceive of any other situation in a working environment where a worker would have to put up with it.
Medical staff would encounter it, but even when our lovely police do, I would be sure there are a few reminders exchanged!

doc_17 · 23-08-2018 10:18pm

It’s not possible to deal with people who act like animals. Scum “teaching” their offspring nothing but how to avoid responsibility. If it was being dealt with then they wouldn’t be there.

bobbyss · 24-08-2018 11:53am

Connacht15 wrote: »

I remember teaching, post qualifying with my H.Dip in Ed, in a school which I reckoned was the worst school you could teach in where you would not be under a threat of physical violence.

I didn't last long and never really taught again.

After escaping, of course as I lived in the same city as the kids, I had to put up with name calling on the street, being followed around a shop and 2 of them pushing another one of them at me as I was walking down the street passed them.

A neighbour, who did her H. Dip there and who is an exceptionally nice person was kicked and punched down there!

Another lad, I got to know who has taught in several schools distinctly remembered it being an absolute nightmare!

My question to teachers out there is. were you ever in a similar school/experience anything like that and how did you handle it?
What's the secret to surviving a nightmare?

My very first job in 19__, I can remember as if it was yesterday. Like smells from your youth that you will always recall. I got a sub for a few days. A VEC school down the country. Wild. Wild it was. Feral. What I remember was the name calling. Not just in school but outside in the town. Gangs of them. Terrible stuff. WTF I was thinking. How can anyone work here?

I never went back to that school even though there were more subbing opportunities.

As it was my first experience of teaching what I found even more depressing was that there was this one teacher whose class I accidentally entered one day. Absolute and utter quietness. You could hear a pin drop. I could not understand that and still can't.

Why some teachers 'have it' and others don't is a million dollar question. Think back to your own school days and I am sure that amongst the staff you had there were teachers whose discipline was intrinsic. You wouldn't mess in those classes. Why? What was it about them that made them so unique? And why can't I be like that. It was not necessarily fear of punishment either. They had a way with kids.

I know I don't have that quality. And I can only envy those that that do.

Regarding your specific question how do you handle it and so on. Well in my own case you get bounced around from school to school subbing. You get used to certain behaviours. You see how other teachers and management deal with problems. You accept that most places are not perfect. You develop a hard neck. You develop skills that see you through. You foresee problems and try and eliminate them before they happen. You try and not take stuff personally. You share concerns with colleagues.

And eventually you find your niche and settle.

The School Completion Programme's rationale of doing everything to keep kids in school is very difficult to accept given the damage this does to other students. Could be seen to reward bad behaviour in a sense and other students see this. The rewarding of difficult students with trips and so is an area where you simply have to take a deep breath. Bite you lip. Voice your concerns but ultimately remember too you have bills to pay and you just get on with things.

Connacht15 · 24-08-2018 10:14pm

I saw one of the AHs that caused me a problem <snip> in Eyre Square, Galway, today!
<snip>

SligoBrewer · 25-08-2018 9:50pm

Lads, this is a public forum. Cop on.

Dickie10 · 02-09-2018 5:10pm

i find to build a relationship with the ones that may cause trouble. it helps to get to know them what there intrests are and they then see you as someone other than an authority figure more like someone that actually has their intrets at heart as well as trying to help them acheive.

Connacht15 · 20-06-2019 2:33am

I cant see it getting any easier for teachers nowadays!

Wanderer78 · 20-06-2019 5:19am

Connacht15 wrote:

I cant see it getting any easier for teachers nowadays!

It's a very difficult profession anyway, but I do suspect difficult behaviours are on the rise amongst kids

Dickie10 · 20-06-2019 6:58pm

Im only on my first proper year out of PME but was in a very difficult school the last two years, i have learned so much its unreal. I would perhaps cautiously advise not too be soft or snowflakey when dishing out discipline , sometimes kids respond better in plain language, i dont mean cursing or anything but like just to the point simple authoritarian language. no need to lose the head just go through the discipline procedure by the book. i used to be kind of afraid of sounding a bit ignorant or gruff when talking to ill mannered students its when you try to sound soft spoken and afraid of saying anything that might be used against you that they see weakness, this was a tough school mind and you had to fight fire with fire. you have to sound like you know exactly what your doing at all times and have absolutly no fear of any parent etc. I wouldnt anyway because im only following discipline procedure. I write everything down also and get the student to agree that this is what happened etc so theres no blurring of lines. I had a kid say they were going to complain to their father about me because i was always too harsh on them for talking in class, i told him that would be great if he could come in we can go through all the other thiings like homework not done etc !

Bobtheman · 23-06-2019 10:59am

In my early years certainly but not now. I have classes where very little gets done because kids don't have books etc. Please don't say procedures should be in place. They are but not strong enough.

Mardy Bum · 29-06-2019 2:09pm

Teachers beating themselves up over rowdy classes are being unfair on themselves. Discipline problems begin long before a sub enters a classroom and the poor sub has to then deal with the issues.

Reasons for poor discipline starting with the most common to the least common reason.
Ineffective displinary policy
Management not following their own disciplinary policy
All teachers not consistently following the disciplinary policy
Classroom teacher themselves not following the disciplinary policy.

The only way you can avoid any of this is by being in a school for a few years and even this may not be enough.

emilymemily · 05-07-2019 5:25pm

It comes with experience, when I started teaching I had a few classes that were unteachable, specifically a youthreach group, one of the boys in my class was an absolute nightmare, he hated teachers and authority figures and did everything he could to disrupt the class. What really made me feel like a failure was when an older member of staff came into the class and the entire group stopped messing, sat up straight and turned into little angels.
I recently had a group while subbing who were very difficult in the beginning and in fairness to them, I handled it all wrong at first which didnt help. After a couple of failed attempts I brought in some chocolate bars and set up a scenario where I challenged them to behave, told them who ever worked the hardest and tried their best on a particular class project would win a prize.. throughout the class they were so well behaved so at the end of the class, I pretended I couldnt pick one winner as they had all been so good, specifically chose the ring leaders of the group to award for good behavior. Never had an issue with that class again after that. Ive learned that its better to reward good behavior over punishing the bad, you get them on your side that way and I saw a huge improvement in the level of respect they had towards me.

Dickie10 · 06-07-2019 11:19pm

has anyone ever come across unteachable classes in all girls schools?

Were You Ever in A situation Where a Class Was Unteachable and How Did You Handle it?

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