The Sub 4 Support Thread

Hi, First time posting here and looking for some advice.

The story is that I'm 42 and twelve years after stopping playing hurling and football and doing no exercise I did a boot camp after Christmas and started running. For motivation in February i signed up for the Antrim Coast marathon as it goes right past my door and i said if i ever did one, I'd be selective about which one it would be. Now this takes place on the 30th june and i'm wondering if i'll be able to do a sub four race as that was my ultimate secret aim.

I did a Born to Run trail half marathon a month ago in 1:45, having got my LSR up to sixteen miles just prior to that. I hurt my hamstring (farming related not running) and had to take 10 days off since, but having been to the physio twice and regularly doing my stretches/exercises i feel much better. So last week i decided to go for a tempo run on part of the course and manged to do a ten mile tempo in 1:19. Yesterday i did a 20 mile LSR from the start position and whilst deliberately trying to go slower i did the 20 miles in 3:03. Legs were heavy after mile 12 so dropped the pace by about 30 secs per mile.

With six weeks to go has anyone any advice to offer, should i go for a LSR of 22 and wind back from that or run a few LSR's of 20 & 18 or what would you recommend? What should i be focusing on for the next month or so?
If i don't do sub four i'm probably gonna have to sign up for Dublin to achieve it. The course itself is very flat if that makes any difference.

I was using the DCM novices/Hal Higdon 18 week Plans, but between work, farming and the usual i was missing bits here and there, so fire away. And i'll accept all criticism about not having enough of a base and too much too soon, but this marathon hasn't been on for thirty years since i watched it as a kid and I just had to go for it.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Aw I'm touched you remembered....and of course you identified my best trait too! :pac::pac::pac:

I always remember good advice :P



(disclaimer - if it suits me)

Sub 4 is definitely on my to-do list - I've done the DCM twice, the first one was 4:17, and then last year I came in at 4:01. I am doing the Berlin in Sept with my wife and am feeling confident already that I'll break the 4 and then some.

Started my training plan yesterday with a jonty 3 mile run. I think where I failed in previous years is lack on variety in my mid-week training - no hill runs\tempos\etc. - that and more core training should really help me.

ewc78 wrote: »

I tried one of the Wednesday Workouts on the meno plan today just to try it out. It's the one in Week 2 "Progression run"
Wednesday session: 2 miles easy warm up followed by 8 minutes steady (MP + 3-4%); 8 milnutes @ MP; 8 Minutes @ HMP; 8 Minutes Hard (approx 10kpace); 2 miles c/d at the end. The run should be all continuous. Try not to overestimate the 'steady', and MP sections or it will get very difficult at the end. For the last 8 minute sesction pretty much go as fast as you can while retaining a constant pace. It will likely come in and around your 10k pace.

First off I really enjoyed the run.
Reason I'm posting about it though is to get advice re the paces I did for each step to see if I'm doing it right in relation to what I should be doing for a sub 4hr.
These are the average paces I did.

3km Warm up : 6:15/km
8 min steady: 5:50/km
8 min MP: 5:30/km
8 min HMP : 5:10/km
8 min Hard: 4:35/km
3km Warm down: 6:00km

I did find it hard to keep a constant pace on each and sometimes had to slow down or speed up so the above are averages.

The paces look about right in relation to each other. Assuming they actually have a realistic relationship with your fitness right now and not just picked because they correspond with Sub 4. Based on your 5k time they would appear to be bang on.

That's one of the things I liked about the meno plan - lots of interesting sessions like this. For runners relatively new to this kind of work (like I was the first time I did this plan), the fact that it's broken down into individual 8-minute 'sections' means it kind of flies past and before you know it you've completed a very solid progression run.

ewc78 wrote: »

I tried one of the Wednesday Workouts on the meno plan today just to try it out. It's the one in Week 2 "Progression run"
Wednesday session: 2 miles easy warm up followed by 8 minutes steady (MP + 3-4%); 8 milnutes @ MP; 8 Minutes @ HMP; 8 Minutes Hard (approx 10kpace); 2 miles c/d at the end. The run should be all continuous. Try not to overestimate the 'steady', and MP sections or it will get very difficult at the end. For the last 8 minute sesction pretty much go as fast as you can while retaining a constant pace. It will likely come in and around your 10k pace.

First off I really enjoyed the run.
Reason I'm posting about it though is to get advice re the paces I did for each step to see if I'm doing it right in relation to what I should be doing for a sub 4hr.
These are the average paces I did.

3km Warm up : 6:15/km
8 min steady: 5:50/km
8 min MP: 5:30/km
8 min HMP : 5:10/km
8 min Hard: 4:35/km
3km Warm down: 6:00km

I did find it hard to keep a constant pace on each and sometimes had to slow down or speed up so the above are averages.

Good idea to try out a couple of sessions before deciding on a plan. I like the look of the progression run. I won't be doing meno but i like the idea of the variety as well. Well done

seanin4711 wrote: »

thats my friday after work session sorted!

I am trying to focus on neg split sessions .
first half of a typical friday afternoon sesh would be 16km steady but i will try to incorporate neg splits as in 8km easy and 2nd 8km mp.

Is it not very early to be running half your run at MP :eek: I'm not planning to start specific dcm training for another 9 weeks so excuse me if i'm freaking out a tiny bit

seanin4711 wrote: »

let me digress

the workout posted is a great session,but i would not be coupling it another distance session.
sorry for the confusion!

Hows the training going in this ideal running weather?
5 days a week for me

Tuesday moderate 10-12km
Wednesday speed session 8km approx 1km up 1km down x 3
Thursday moderate 10-12km
Friday 16km steady
Sunday LSR 1hr 45min/half Mara

ballpark 70km per week
with 4/5 sessions done on cross country 1km loop.



i will keep it going with this plan as long as i can
touch wood no niggles as yet.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but have you no easy paced runs at all? Also is your LSR done at half marathon pace?

Ah I see. I thought the / half mara related to the pace of the run. Also on the pace chart I use moderate and steady paces are quite a bit faster than easy. Is it not recommended that 80/85% of weekly running should be easy/ low intensity?

ewc78 wrote: »

I see DCM is selling our fast. How many here are doing it and have you decided on a plan?
I'm 99% sure I'll be using the meno plan, would be great if a few others are also.

I’m doing it and more than likely the grads plan.

ewc78 wrote: »

I see DCM is selling our fast. How many here are doing it and have you decided on a plan?
I'm 99% sure I'll be using the meno plan, would be great if a few others are also.

Signed up and have decided I'll definitely follow the meno plan.
Going to start my training 2 weeks early as I'll be away for 2 weeks in July and don't fancy the session runs in the heat. Will just do easy runs for those 2 weeks.

Hey Guys Great idea for a thread. I recently ran a 1:47 half, as dublin will be my first marathon i just want to enjoy it. So i plan to go out with the 4hr pacers and take it all in while hoping to stay with them. I'm going to follow the boards plan starting in june. So looking forward to seeing everyone's progress

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Best tip I can give you, any anyone else, is to buy this book, read it from cover to cover and start training:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Advanced-Marathoning-Peter-Pfitzinger/dp/0736074600

It worked for me, and a lot of other runners. When someone talks about P&D, this is what they're talking about.

Can I ask whether which of the schedules you followed and how rigidly you did so? I loosely followed the 55m plan last year - found it very tough.

Mileage is really only difficult when you don’t have the base. If you’ve been running 2,000 miles per year for a couple of years, the ramp up to 55 isn’t going to faze you. If you’ve been running much less, it could well break you. Choose the mileage version that you can comfortably sustain - whatever plan you follow.

Another thing about Advanced Marathoning - read the book and understand the principles and the paces. Much better than just borrowing the schedule and hope for the best. It’s not an easy plan, and I’d say only suitable with at least 2 or three decent marathon efforts under your belt. (the clue is in the title). It’s certainly advanced for a sub-4 attempt. Maybe too advanced?

thats the target for me across all 5 sessions combined per week.
low intensity high vol will make up 70% of that.(2 sessions)
20% moderate (2 sessions )and 10% speedplay (1 session).

nice and humid this eve around Loughrea.

Hope your training is going well and injury free.

DCM sold out btw!:o

Berlin the target for me (Dublin option would have been nice!)

22nd july.
Half 25€ and full marathon 35€ in Boston Scientific Ballybrit Galway for chosen charity ability west.
1 mile loops block marathon(not everyones cup of tea ,i know) using it as a training run -20miler and walk the last 6 miles.

So start it now!