DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

Lambay island · 15-07-2019 3:47pm

Singer wrote: »

You are running way too fast - that's much faster than marathon pace, sub-3:30 pace. If you keep running like that, you will probably have a good first half of the marathon, and then a complete sufferfest and the longest 2+ hours of your life

What are your race times like? How long have you been running?

I have done very little running in last few years until about a month ago. 5/6 years back i did one sub 20 5km and have recorded 42 for 10km race. Untested in a race beyond that. I cycle regularly so have decent enough level of fitness. If I'm targeting say sub 4 approx 3.50 what pace should i be running 3 miles, 5 miles 10 miles etc at. Sorry, it probably been answered already somewhere in thread. Last thing I want is to burn out half way through.

ReeReeG · 15-07-2019 4:03pm

Lambay island wrote: »

I have done very little running in last few years until about a month ago. 5/6 years back i did one sub 20 5km and have recorded 42 for 10km race. Untested in a race beyond that. I cycle regularly so have decent enough level of fitness. If I'm targeting say sub 4 approx 3.50 what pace should i be running 3 miles, 5 miles 10 miles etc at. Sorry, it probably been answered already somewhere in thread. Last thing I want is to burn out half way through.

I don't think you answered the questions in the first post on the thread? Apologies if I missed them if you did. Will be helpful for us to know more about your running and what plan you are following.
Have you any races planned in the lead up to DCM? Would be good to know appropriate paces for your current fitness as opposed to the target.

Lambay island · 15-07-2019 4:14pm

ReeReeG wrote: »

I don't think you answered the questions in the first post on the thread? Apologies if I missed them if you did. Will be helpful for us to know more about your running and what plan you are following.
Have you any races planned in the lead up to DCM? Would be good to know appropriate paces for your current fitness as opposed to the target.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!) 5km 19.40... 10k 42 mins
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do) No
How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level. I am currently doing something every day. I am following Novice plan here at present albeit not fixed to days due to weekend work etc..if I'm not running on particular day i commute cycle by bike 22km round trip - often both but not on long run day if you get me
What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time? finish sub 4 in an ideal world
How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow? 5 days and am currently following hal hingdon plan
What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up? I suppose injury
Why are you running this marathon? something I wanted to do for a while but always had an excuse not to.

I'm currently signed up to do the DLR 10k in a couple of weeks and also the half in Dublin.

kyomi · 15-07-2019 4:17pm

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes. This week was a step back week for me and I did around 28 miles in total over four days. Long run was 11 miles and I did it on Saturday instead of my usual Sunday, finishing with a parkrun - really enjoyed it. I might try and do this more often. It was great to have the long run out of the way early.

I did the Day of Irish PBs yesterday (don't worry about me doing too many races, mentors, I'm not doing the 10K this week or in fact any race for a while!). I signed up for it ages ago and had planned to race it properly and go for sub-22 (it's a 5K), but when I saw the weather was going to be hot (and remembering the wheels coming off when I did the same race last year) I decided to just run it as a tempo. I thought that would also fit in better with the marathon training generally. It helped that the sub-23 group and the sub-24 group were going out together, so if I couldn't keep up with the 23s I could always fall back to the 24s.

I ended up with a time of 22:45 and was quite pleased that I managed to run all the laps at a really even pace (all within two seconds of 1:49, except for the last lap where I managed to speed up). I didn't struggle at all during it and felt quite strong. But the best bit was having a Day of Irish PBs beer in the sun afterwards while cheering on the other races!

Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?
Probably didn't get in enough easy runs this week. I did a session on Tuesday (as planned), then a 6-mile easy run on Wednesday (average 10:10 per mile). I didn't get a chance to run on Thursday or Friday as I had to stay at home with the 2-year-old both days. The average pace for Saturday's long run was 10:10, and that was done by heart rate. I actually did the same route on my long run a few weeks ago and I had to run much slower back then to keep my heart rate down. So hopefully all the slow running is starting to show some results.

Next week it's back to easy running - 5 runs in total, all easy except for one 7-mile with 3 PMP miles in the middle. Long run will be 15 miles and if all goes to plan I'll do about 37 miles over the week.

After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?
I'm pretty happy with it. I've become very comfortable running slowly and I'm enjoying my runs so much more than I used to back when every run involved pushing myself and constantly trying to go faster. At the same time, doing a session is also fun because it makes a nice change when every other run is slow. I've been lucky so far as well in that I've had no problems fitting in all my runs.

DeepBlue · 15-07-2019 4:41pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

- Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?

Yes, all done. Could perhaps have found steeper hills for the hill repeats.
The LSR was probably the most horrible run I've had in quite a while as a swarm of bees were pestering me throughout and I found out at about 9 mile that the vest I was wearing had poor wicking properties and got a bad dose of runner's nipple for the last few miles home.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?

Mostly. The easy runs ran as part of races were a pinch on the faster side. Seems I run a little faster when I'm not looking at my watch. Just something to remember going forward.

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

- After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?

Seems to be going ok. I had a slight knee niggle coming in to it which seems to have disappeared in the last week or so.
Doing easy runs during races makes me wonder if the normal run for times is really worth it as the relative amble around is quite enjoyable. When loping in to the finish of a parkrun on Saturday I overheard one of the volunteers saying "he makes it look so easy". Normally I'd have sweat running down my face, gasping for air and have to wait a minute or too bent over before I could collect my token.
It makes a change to looking quite relaxed.

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 5:29pm

DBB wrote: »

Welcome back Mr. Guappa, hope you had a nice break

Did you get in all your planned runs? If not, why not?
Yes, all done on the HHN1 plan, plus a mile extra on the lsr as... Well... I'd got so used to longer runs on a Saturday on the HM plan that 5 miles just felt... Wrong I felt strong so just kept going a teeny bit further.

Did you run at appropriate paces?
Yes, all good and steady as I'm training to heart rate.
Tues 3.1 miles @11:13min/mile, avg HR 135
Wed 4.4 miles @11:43min/MILE, avg HR 137
Thurs 3.1 miles @11:13min/mile avg HR 138
Sat 6.2 miles @ 11:36min/mile, avg HR 137

How do you feel your training is progressing?
I'm almost afraid to speak too soon, but having started HR training at the start of March, and being told at the time that it's going to take time for things to happen and to be patient, I feel things are starting to happen
As reported last week, I ran the Clontarf HM last Saturday, and although I wasn't fast (11:33min/mile... Stick with the plan, stick with the plan ), I was quite consistent in pacing for the whole thing, and felt strong to the end, which I was really pleased with.
This 3rd week of marathon training brought more hints that things are getting better. My lsr yesterday was the first time I've run every mile in under 12mins since starting HR training, including a later mile that's a long, uphill slog that I've never done in less than about 12:20.
But it's the way I'm feeling whilst I run that has me happiest... Stronger, good form, comfortable... and... enjoying it! It almost seems that I crossed a mental barrier by getting the half marathon under my belt, it seems to have brought me on a bit, if that makes sense.

I'm not doing the 10k next Sunday, but I am doing a 10mile race locally, which ties in pretty well with the alternative 9mile lsr scheduled on HHN1. I will run that race as an lsr. Stick with the plan, stick with the plan

It's great to see that you're noticing the benefits of some great training over the past few months. Maybe I missed something along the way, but I think I'm correct in saying that you haven't properly raced in a while? The WMM was something a bit less than max effort and Clontarf was at LSR pace? And your only other planned all out race is a HM in August? If that's the case, then I think you can race the 10 miler this weekend, if you feel able for it!

kulekat · 15-07-2019 5:30pm

Can I ask why the longest LSR is 'only' 20miles (32k) on the plans. Other than not burning ourselves/muscles etc out, is there another reason for this number?

For some reason it seems like a big jump from 20 miles to 26.2, or 32k to 42k, psychologically even.

I know we will all be able to do it, but it does seem a big jump in miles. Every other increase is less than 3 miles (looking at lsr's specifically). Just wondering!

Thanks!!

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 5:39pm

kulekat wrote: »

Can I ask why the longest LSR is 'only' 20miles (32k) on the plans. Other than not burning ourselves/muscles etc out, is there another reason for this number?

For some reason it seems like a big jump from 20 miles to 26.2, or 32k to 42k, psychologically even.

I know we will all be able to do it, but it does seem a big jump in miles. Every other increase is less than 3 miles (looking at lsr's specifically). Just wondering!

Thanks!!

Try look at the 20 miler as the last 20 miles of the marathon, as opposed to the first 20. You'll be coming into the 20 miler with tired legs, on the back of multiple tough weeks. In contrast, you'll be lining up at the marathon start line with fresh legs on the back of a 3-week taper.

pd79 · 15-07-2019 9:05pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Try look at the 20 miler as the last 20 miles of the marathon, as opposed to the first 20. You'll be coming into the 20 miler with tired legs, on the back of multiple tough weeks. In contrast, you'll be lining up at the marathon start line with fresh legs on the back of a 3-week taper.

That's a great way to look at it ! Never heard it being described like that , makes sense

fatboyfin · 15-07-2019 9:08pm

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes, all runs for this week done and dusted. Have been upping the miles based on previous six months training, but sticking with the structure of the boards plan. Enjoyed the hill sprints in the rain.

Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace
Slowing down this week compared to last week. LSR felt really comfortable.

After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?
Feeling good, still motivated, and enjoying paying a bit more attention to planned paces, different types of runs (hill sprints, pmp etc). Hoping combination of slower pace and longer weekly miles, interspersed with speed work as per the plan will result in an improved marathon time.

Enjoying the strava group, good to see everyone getting their runs in.

Bananaleaf · 15-07-2019 9:14pm

Having previously been moaning about my sore legs yesterday, after a recovery run and a full days rest they feel so much better. The rest days really are so important. I'm so grateful to have them and to have a plan to follow which has cleverly positioned them just to where they are needed. Delighted to be following this plan! As someone else already mentioned, it's great to have the thinking taken out of it for us!

eabha19 · 15-07-2019 9:54pm

Went out to do my easy run tonight with sole purpose of keeping to 6:45 m/km and got spot on. Did it at the track with everyone running tempo around me so it felt really counter intuitive but am determined to keep to plan from now on with holidays behind me. For Wednesday's run - is PMP your dream pace (4hrs 20 finish) or your "arry that'll do nicely pace" (4 hrs 30 mins)?

TillyDcm · 15-07-2019 10:17pm

**Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes, all runs for week 3 on the HHN1 plan complete.

**Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?
I am still finding it difficult to slow my pace, but improved slightly this week.
Monday 3 miles @ avg 11:29/mi
Tuesday 4 miles @ avg 11:05/mi
Thursday 3 miles @ avg 11:05/mi
Saturday 5 miles (incl. parkrun) @ avg 10:53/mi
Sunday 30 minute leisurely cycle

**After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?
Very happy to have stuck with the plan and confident that I will have the DCM40 medal around my neck in less than 15 weeks!! Finding the evening runs a little tough with this hot weather, but I am determined to keep going.

Has anyone got any advice to help with tight/sore calves? Some days they are fine and other days I have to stop umpteen times to stretch them out. I'm thinking that my runners might need changing!

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 10:35pm

eabha19 wrote: »

Went out to do my easy run tonight with sole purpose of keeping to 6:45 m/km and got spot on. Did it at the track with everyone running tempo around me so it felt really counter intuitive but am determined to keep to plan from now on with holidays behind me. For Wednesday's run - is PMP your dream pace (4hrs 20 finish) or your "arry that'll do nicely pace" (4 hrs 30 mins)?

Well done tonight! You can go a touch easier, but you're certainly moving in the right direction - great stuf!

Your PMP should be based on your current fitness - your race times indicate something in the middle of those two times as a reasonable basis to use for now, so something like 6:15-6:20/km would seem about right.

kulekat · 15-07-2019 10:42pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Try look at the 20 miler as the last 20 miles of the marathon, as opposed to the first 20. You'll be coming into the 20 miler with tired legs, on the back of multiple tough weeks. In contrast, you'll be lining up at the marathon start line with fresh legs on the back of a 3-week taper.

Ah... interesting, and i see the logic now. That makes sense. Especially for the head to compute as opposed to the legs.

Nice one , thank you Mr G ðŸ‘ðŸ‘

ReeReeG · 15-07-2019 10:43pm

TillyDcm wrote:

Has anyone got any advice to help with tight/sore calves? Some days they are fine and other days I have to stop umpteen times to stretch them out. I'm thinking that my runners might need changing!

Do you have a foam roller? Worth spending some time with it on the calves a few evenings a week now at least. If they're very bad still, might be worth a trip to a physio to loosen them out.

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 10:50pm

TillyDcm wrote: »

**Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes, all runs for week 3 on the HHN1 plan complete.

**Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?
I am still finding it difficult to slow my pace, but improved slightly this week.
Monday 3 miles @ avg 11:29/mi
Tuesday 4 miles @ avg 11:05/mi
Thursday 3 miles @ avg 11:05/mi
Saturday 5 miles (incl. parkrun) @ avg 10:53/mi
Sunday 30 minute leisurely cycle

**After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?
Very happy to have stuck with the plan and confident that I will have the DCM40 medal around my neck in less than 15 weeks!! Finding the evening runs a little tough with this hot weather, but I am determined to keep going.

Has anyone got any advice to help with tight/sore calves? Some days they are fine and other days I have to stop umpteen times to stretch them out. I'm thinking that my runners might need changing!

Nice week. Yeah, definitely keep working on getting the paces easier. You'll appreciate the fresher legs as the milegae begins to increase.

Do you do any foam rolling? A few minutes spent foam rolling and stretching every night can go a long way towards keeping niggles at bay.

eabha19 · 15-07-2019 10:54pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Well done tonight! You can go a touch easier, but you're certainly moving in the right direction - great stuf!

Your PMP should be based on your current fitness - your race times indicate something in the middle of those two times as a reasonable basis to use for now, so something like 6:15-6:20/km would seem about right.

Thanks for that. Also is 7m/k my aim for LSR? Sorry for pestering tonight - just that this week is more like week 1 for me coz now that all that sun, sea and sangria is out of my system I'm wanting to get in the zone!

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 11:04pm

morceli wrote: »

Well got into Dublin in the late batch and need to get the finger out so decided to post my training and get advice here. Haven't done much running since in Ran london in 2012 and a couple of injuries made me give up running, well at least give up racing i've been doing a couple of jog/walks per week

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? (No problem if you do)

Haven't races anything other then 2 beer mile races since 2011/2012 so level of fitness not so good right now.

How much training do you currently do ? Distances, how many days a week, cross training - whatever you think is relevant to your current fitness level.
4 running days a week of 40 mins to 60 mins but closer to a fast walk right now.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time? Or just complete it in no specified time?

Finish Dublin and push on to a spring marathon.

How many days a week can you train? And what plan do you intend to follow?

4 to 5 day depending on the body , Hybrid/custom selfmade plan based on a previous life.

What is your biggest worry/fear/doubt (if you have any!) in signing up?

Injury /weight.

Why are you running this marathon?
God knows.

It's not entirely clear from that post where you're currently at mileage wise, or over the past couple of months?

I'm very curious as to why you're doing Dublin, or indeed why you've now re-focussed on the running? If a spring marathon is the main goal, then the smarter plan at this stage may be to forget Dublin and build more gradually through the autumn and winter to a position where you can really give a training plan for a spring marathon your best effort.

That said, if you're determined to do Dublin I'd recommend taking a look at the Hal Higdon plan in the first post of this thread. I'd much rather see you follow a plan with a proven track record than a homemade plan!

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 11:09pm

eabha19 wrote: »

Thanks for that. Also is 7m/k my aim for LSR? Sorry for pestering tonight - just that this week is more like week 1 for me coz now that all that sun, sea and sangria is out of my system I'm wanting to get in the zone!

No problem at all :P

Yep - 7:00-7:15 looks about right to me for long runs.

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 11:26pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Hope you had a great holiday Mr Guppa

Did you get in all the runs on your plan - if not, then why not?
Yes got all my runs in as planned...lashed out of the heavens Wednesday evening for my hill sprints but totally loved it!!

- Did you run the runs at an appropriate pace?
Yes i think i am averaging the paces out well, still find my 1st mile maybe a little too quick but keeping an eye on it... trying to stay between 9.30 - 10.20 min per mile for easy & lsr's

- After three weeks, how do you feel your training is progressing?

I feel really good, never ever in a million years thought of myself as a long distance runner but with the training & consistency i'm loving the long runs. Not gonna lie i am so excited to run the 10k race on Sunday to feel that buzz of pushing myself but 100% my focus & determination is for the Marathon itself!

Thanks! Yeah I had a great time :cool:

Well done so far - you've made a really noticeable effort to take it easy, and it will pay off. I'd try and keep easy and LSR above the 10:00 mark.

Best of luck on Sunday!

Laineyfrecks · 15-07-2019 11:27pm

So far when i have ran my pmp i have been running just over 8min miles...in your opinion right now is this too ambitious or is this ok?

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 11:39pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

So far when i have ran my pmp i have been running just over 8min miles...in your opinion right now is this too ambitious or is this ok?

Yeah, to be honest that's far too ambitious. 8 min miles would be PMP for a 3:30 marathon. You mentioned in your very first post on this thread a goal time of just over 4 hours - that seems more realistic at the moment. So PMP at 9:20/mi or thereabouts would seem to be appopriate at the moment.

Laineyfrecks · 15-07-2019 11:42pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Yeah, to be honest that's far too ambitious. 8 min miles would be PMP for a 3:30 marathon. You mentioned in your very first post on this thread a goal time of just over 4 hours - that seems more realistic at the moment. So PMP at 9:20/mi or thereabouts would seem to be appopriate at the moment.

Cheers thats what i shall do for now

At what stage would you adjust this time? Is it based on your race times over the plan?

Mr. Guappa · 15-07-2019 11:50pm

Laineyfrecks wrote: »

Cheers thats what i shall do for now At what stage would you adjust this time? Is it based on your race times over the plan?

Pretty much yeah. At this stage it's very much a guideline, espcially when based off 5k and 10k times. The 10 milers and Half Marathons will give somewhat of a better indicator.

Laineyfrecks · 15-07-2019 11:53pm

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Pretty much yeah. At this stage it's very much a guideline, espcially when based off 5k and 10k times. The 10 milers and Half Marathons will give somewhat of a better indicator.

Thanks a mill

Mr. Guappa · 16-07-2019 12:00am

Doc76 wrote: »

Welcome back, Mr G!

I got all my runs in this week, plus some extra days/miles according to the HH1 plan. I know I’m not on plan strictly speaking but keeping all the runs easy (I know some of them could’ve been slower though). Hope this is ok? As the plan’s mileage increases and life gets more hectic in the autumn my running will coincide better with the official plan.

I think some of my runs could’ve been a touch slower, especially the LSR which started out too fast and then got disrupted in the middle by a phone call I had to take. I never found an appropriate pace on that run and was feeling down afterwards. But I know bad days are a part of the mental training! Also two of my runs this week were on the dreaded treadmill due to the heat where I was and I have a tough time running slow on those... find it much much easier outside.

I feel good about my progress at this stage and am really looking forward to racing the 10k on Sunday!

Thanks again Mr G and to the other mentors. The advice has been invaluable.

I've just taken a look at your Strava and I think you are running all your runs too fast. I'd recommend pushing the easy paces closer to 13:00/mile for now. Best of luck on Sunday, and we can review paces again after that.

Unknownability · 16-07-2019 12:03am

Anyone here doing the Mullingar 10 mile on the 27th of July?

Mr. Guappa · 16-07-2019 8:47am

passinginterest wrote: »

Not a great week. Only 4 of 6 planned runs. Got the two main runs done at least. Very busy work week and with evening plans too it meant when I missed my lunch window there was no alternative. Probably ran some of the mid week run with the sprints at the end a bit too quick, especially coming off the relatively hard week last week. Went to play footgolf on Thursday evening and having not kicked a ball in quite some time my legs felt really off afterwards. Wedding anniversary Friday, had considered sneaking in a run to make up one of the missed ones, but thought better of it and wasn’t feeling great anyway. Headed out to attempt long run on Saturday, immediately felt awful and when my stomach started playing up within a mile I thought better of it and headed for home. Got out on Sunday for the 13 miles, felt awful for most of it but got it done. Legs still a bit off from the footgolf, I guess working muscles I hadn’t used in a long time just seems to have thrown things out of balance a bit. Looking forward to a more consistent week this week and hopefully attacking the 10k at the weekend.

We'll all have those weeks where events conspire against us and the running suffers. As you mention, best to forget it and look forward. As long as it's a rare occurrence you'll be fine - well done for getting out on Sunday. I think I saw a comment from yourself on Strava about being the world's worst stretcher? Maybe a bit of regular stretching and foam rolling is needed to keep the body in good nick? Best of luck in the 10k.

Lambay island · 16-07-2019 8:50am

Managed to slow my run right down last night. was planning on doing 3 miles(as per Tuesday on Hal Higdon) but ended up doing 6 as it took me at least 3 miles to adjust to new pace as at first I felt like I was running on the spot.

DCM 2019 - Mentored Novices Thread

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