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Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

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Comments

  • #32
    PsychoPete
    Registered Users Posts: 8,566 ✭✭✭PsychoPete


    It's not like Ireland has a history of covering things up or anything


  • #33
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    440Hertz wrote: »
    This is the second time the Greens have supported extremely socially regressive stuff. Last time that made me feel absolutely let down was when they supported the blasphemy legislation. I contacted them at the time and got wishy-washy, deflecting nonsense.

    They seem to basically be a Conservative party, albeit one with green credentials.

    What was the blasphemy legislation ?


  • #34
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,483 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Government voted it in tonight - they truly don’t represent us.

    Is this the only thread on boards on this - way too quite...


  • #35
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,483 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Vote breakdown.


  • #36
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Vote breakdown.

    Any breakdown on who voted for what?


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  • #37
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,483 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Any breakdown on who voted for what?

    Not yet - all ff all fg and all gp per the screenshot. It was a whipped vote.


  • #38
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,727 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Not yet - all ff all fg and all gp per the screenshot. It was a whipped vote.

    Cûnts.
    The lot of them.


  • #39
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,601 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    PsychoPete wrote: »
    It's not like Ireland has a history of covering things up or anything

    Cover ups?

    Nah. Wrong island... ..

    .... ......

    ..


  • #40
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭Acosta


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    Government voted it in tonight - they truly don’t represent us.

    Is this the only thread on boards on this - way too quite...

    The general indifference I come across about this subject whenever it's in the news from many I know(especially the ones that vote for the establishment) tells me that unfortunately they pretty much do. Or at least largely do. I don't know what it is with this subject that makes so many care so little, I really don't. And all these people have kids indoctrinated into the church. How can people do that. To attach your kids to an institution that is responsible for so much horrendous acts to children and have basically got away with it makes no sense to me.

    Official Ireland's general response to the mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries and industrial schools has been to say has little as possible and hope that it will go away. Fine Fail and Fine Gael most certainly don't want to talk about it and the media help them out as much as possible by making as little about it as humanly possible. Their first inclination when Tuam was uncovered a few years back was to immediately downplay and in some cases suggest it was not true.
    Once they couldn't deny it any longer, it was a huge story for about a month and then.....nothing. It was gone out of the media as quickly as it arrived with no resolution to the matter whatsoever.
    The reaction to sealing of the documents or lack of one is just par of course.


  • #41
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I think it will take external pressure from the EU or outside media to bring attention to this.


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  • #42
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    listermint wrote: »
    Cover ups?

    Nah. Wrong island... ..

    .... ......

    ..

    So these women who had these kids dont have a right to privacy?


  • #43
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    nthclare wrote: »
    What was the blasphemy legislation ?

    They supported the introduction of legislation that defined blasphemy back in 2009 while in government, activating the blasphemy provision in the Irish constitution, which to that point, had been a dead letter law because, while it was in the constitution, there was no legislation defining it and the courts had been unable to define it as it would have required an established state religion.

    The legislation provided a definition based on offending a large number of people.

    It remained in force until the constitution was amended to remove it in 2018.

    [url] http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/01/02/ireland.blasphemy.law/index.html[/url]

    Led to ludicrous stuff like this : https://www.thejournal.ie/file-may-be-sent-to-the-dpp-over-blasphemous-ucc-exhibition-163550-Jun2011/


  • #44
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Scumbags and every person who ever votes for any of them again should be ashamed of themselves

    Trying to hide the Church's past again


  • #45
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭Acosta


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I think it will take external pressure from the EU or outside media to bring attention to this.

    To be honest at this point I think it will take a future generation of Irish people to deal with this. And that generation will look at the one that came before us and say how the hell did you people let this happen? And they will look at our generation, an Ireland that STILL has religious iconography plastered over every spec of the town in the country and say, why the hell didn't you give these people justice and pease? Why didn't you fcuking talk about it!?


  • #46
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    All Catholics must share the blame but they want to blame everyone else.

    They put the women in these places not the government.


  • #47
    Nexytus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 154 ✭✭Nexytus


    listermint wrote: »
    Cover ups?

    Nah. Wrong island... ..

    .... ......

    ..


    Not our little island?



    Church rapes and beatings, planning bribes, tapping journalists phones, Stardust, Niall Molloy murder, McBrearty stitch up for murder, beef export insurance skullduggery, Hepatitis C blood contamination debacle, finance ministers with no bank accounts, Anglo Bank "irregularities", €10 million templemore missing money, morris mccabe ........


  • #48
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Acosta wrote: »
    The general indifference I come across about this subject whenever it's in the news from many I know(especially the ones that vote for the establishment) tells me that unfortunately they pretty much do. Or at least largely do. I don't know what it is with this subject that makes so many care so little, I really don't. And all these people have kids indoctrinated into the church. How can people do that. To attach your kids to an institution that is responsible for so much horrendous acts to children and have basically got away with it makes no sense to me.

    Official Ireland's general response to the mother and baby homes, magdalene laundries and industrial schools has been to say has little as possible and hope that it will go away. Fine Fail and Fine Gael most certainly don't want to talk about it and the media help them out as much as possible by making as little about it as humanly possible. Their first inclination when Tuam was uncovered a few years back was to immediately downplay and in some cases suggest it was not true.
    Once they couldn't deny it any longer, it was a huge story for about a month and then.....nothing. It was gone out of the media as quickly as it arrived with no resolution to the matter whatsoever.
    The reaction to sealing of the documents or lack of one is just par of course.

    Maybe the public are fed up of the exaggerated claims by the media?
    Thousands were raped in Irish reform schools’, said the UK Independent in 2009 when the Irish government published its extensive report on the abuse of boys in Catholic-run schools. Clearly the Indie hadn’t read the report, for if it had it would surely have noticed that in fact there were 68 claims of rape, not all of them proven, between the period of 1914 and 1999.

    Step fathers have abused thousands of children but nobody mentions that. :rolleyes:


  • #49
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,664 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    landofthetree wrote: »
    So these women who had these kids dont have a right to privacy?

    Not if it infringes or interferes with another womans right to justice.


  • #50
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    https://twitter.com/SocDems/status/1319296907416514565?s=20

    This is hard to watch.

    Richard Boyd Barrett was born in a mother and baby home.

    https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1319360295085744129?s=20

    I am not in favour of protesting right now but I really don't see what alternative we have. The government voted 78 to 67 in favour of sealing these records. They are going to allow abusers and murderers to die without facing justice. With this action they have enabled institutional rape, murder, paedophilia. This cannot be allowed and we need to organise to take action on behalf of the voiceless dead, maimed, mentally unwell and the fearful victims.


  • #51
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    Did anyone ever see the posts here deflecting blame on society saying things like "everyone knew" and "society is to blame" when the finger is pointed at church and government? This sealing of the documents puts that stupid argument to bed.


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  • #52
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    smurgen wrote: »
    Did anyone ever see the posts here deflecting blame on society saying things like "everyone knew" and "society is to blame" when the finger is pointed at church and government? This sealing of the documents puts that stupid argument to bed.

    Nobody cares much.

    These mothers dont want to know and are protected by a previous act.

    The government had no real choice.


  • #53
    Acosta
    Registered Users Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭Acosta


    landofthetree wrote: »
    So these women who had these kids dont have a right to privacy?

    A lot of the details of individual cases including private information can be withheld or redacted.


  • #54
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,664 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Nexytus wrote: »
    Not our little island?



    Church rapes and beatings, planning bribes, tapping journalists phones, Stardust, Niall Molloy murder, McBrearty stitch up for murder, beef export insurance skullduggery, Hepatitis C blood contamination debacle, finance ministers with no bank accounts, Anglo Bank "irregularities", €10 million templemore missing money, morris mccabe ........

    You missed brown envelopes and poor memories and building maternity hospitals with public money which become the property of religous orders and indemnifying the catholic church against prosecution for past crimes in return for non binding empty promises.


  • #55
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    My question here is who is pushing for this ??

    The government are taking allot of flack making this decision, but I can’t see why they are so adamant to go ahead and seal them.

    And I presume a subsequent government can change this decision.


  • #56
    smurgen
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭smurgen


    landofthetree wrote: »
    Nobody cares much.

    These mothers dont want to know and are protected by a previous act.

    The government had no real choice.

    Seems like lots of people care.

    https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1319360295085744129?s=19


  • #57
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    _Brian wrote: »
    My question here is who is pushing for this ??

    The government are taking allot of flack making this decision, but I can’t see why they are so adamant to go ahead and seal them.

    And I presume a subsequent government can change this decision.

    Hopefully it'll be reversed.
    It's very sad to see this happening.


  • #58
    The Hound Gone Wild
    Registered Users Posts: 255 ✭✭The Hound Gone Wild


    They took the least worse option imo.

    The 2004 legislation which the Commission was based on states that after the findings of the commission have been finalized and the commission dissolved that testimonials gathered are to be destroyed or sealed for 30 years and handed over to the public archives.

    The report in full will be delivered to the public before the 31st of October so the bill was railroaded through the Oireachtas to prevent the destruction of files legally required after this date.

    There are data solicitors and barristers on Twitter that argue that anyone named in the sealed testimonials are entitled to view them under GDPR.

    I am unsure if the sealings will prevent prosecutions in the event that the report details criminal activity (which it will).

    This is a legal quagmire, I'm not a lawyer and really strugge to keep up. Huge proportions of the Dàil are nowhere near educated enough to understand what they really voted for.


  • #59
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,300 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    smurgen wrote: »
    Did anyone ever see the posts here deflecting blame on society saying things like "everyone knew" and "society is to blame" when the finger is pointed at church and government? This sealing of the documents puts that stupid argument to bed.
    smurgen wrote: »
    Seems like lots of people care.

    https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1319360295085744129?s=19

    Not the mothers. They dont want to know.

    Thousands of families dont want to know their own relatives kids who were born in these homes.


  • #60
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    How can we ever expect people to come forward and co-operate with Commissions of Investigation and Inquiries in the future if the Government reneges on a commitment it made to privacy, written into law?

    This decision is so difficult for so many people and seems cruel. However the Government have little other option all the same. The Commission would never have gotten off the ground if that commitment to privacy was not made and this whole discussion wouldn't have even arisen. Worth keeping that in mind.


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  • #61
    mdwexford
    Registered Users Posts: 11,274 ✭✭✭✭mdwexford


    This seems baffling.
    How the hell can they have voted for this.


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