Issue with tenant

HelpWithTenant · 25-11-2015 1:35pm #1

Hi there. I'm hoping for some advice with the issue we are having... we have a tenant living with us for a short-term basis (less than 6 months). We have been having issues with her forgetting to turn off appliances and have had to ask her repeatedly to be more careful. On Monday, my husband returned home to be alerted by the builders next door that the house smelled of gas. She had left the gas stove on for almost 7 hours and the house was filled with gas. My husband called the gas company who told him to make sure that no lights or appliances were left on anywhere, so he went into her room to discover that she had left both her oil heater and electric blanket on all day when she left for work (again, about 7 hours at this stage). She works very close by so my husband called her at work and she came home. Her reply to this was: "oopsy." She has no regard for the consequences of what she did and she endangered our safety. She told my husband he was a liar and that the gas had never been on, because she couldn't smell it (this was over an hour since my husband had first come home so all windows and doors had been open and the smell had dissipated. She was very defensive and barely apologized, saying my husband shouldn't be so concerned because nothing had actually happened.
Now - there were words exchanged where my husband told her that she would need to pay for any damages/cost of gas and that our trust in her was gone. She said she would be moving out, and he agreed that that was the best idea.
The issue lies with her security deposit... legally, both parties (landlord and tenant) are required to give minimum 28 days notice to before leaving, but a shorter amount of time can be agreed upon if both parties are on board. She has said that she will be out by the end of the month... giving us about a week's notice.
Are we entitled to keep the deposit? This notice requirement is in her contract (which trickily isn't actually signed because it was originally emailed and neither her nor us pressed for it to be signed once she arrived). She has a copy of the contract and has referred to it many times, so she is aware of its contents.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

intheclouds · 25-11-2015 1:37pm

If she lives with you she isnt a tenant, she is a licensee and has no rights at all.

Not clear why you want to keep her deposit though, you are getting what you want, she is leaving and no actual damage has been done? Why wouldnt you give her back her deposit?

godtabh · 25-11-2015 1:38pm

Might no be much use now (with a contract in place) but he she isnt a tenant. She is a licensee. Kick her out asap

Mrs OBumble · 25-11-2015 1:41pm

With that sort of record, I'd be telling her to get out tonight, and handing her the deposit when she hands you back the keys.

Sooner she's gone, the better for all concerned.

Diamond Doll · 25-11-2015 1:44pm

When you refer to her paying for damages and for the cost of the gas - I can't see what damages were done, and it would be very difficult to quantify the cost of the gas. Obviously what she did was very stupid and dangerous and irresponsible, and you should get her out of the house as soon as possible, but I can't see that you have grounds to retain her security deposit. I would return it on the day she leaves, following an inspection of her room to ensure there is no damage done there.

Penn · 25-11-2015 1:44pm

Yeah, if she's living with you, she's not a tenant, she's a licensee. And since no contract was signed, she doesn't have to give 28 days notice (the contract probably wouldn't apply anyway even if it was signed).

Best just give her the deposit back (unless you subtract some costs from it for any damage she has done). But even then, sounds like you're better off just giving her back the deposit and be done with her altogether.

OldBean · 25-11-2015 1:45pm

Can you hold onto the deposit until you see the gas bill - 7 hours of gas is a LOT of gas. Compare it to your regular bill/the bill you received for the same time period last year.

mitresize5 · 25-11-2015 1:58pm

As a landlord this is the **** that gives other landlords a bad name

She has done nothing to warrant you holding onto her deposit - in fact she's obliging you by moving out asap

groovyg · 25-11-2015 2:00pm

She's a licensee not a tenant so you or her don't need to give 28 days notice. For your own safety the best thing to do would be to cut your losses give her back the deposit and ask her to leave immediately otherwise you might not have a home at the ways she's carrying on.

HelpWithTenant · 25-11-2015 2:03pm

I didn't realize she was not an actual tenant, but a licensee. I want her out immediately - with regards to the deposit, we had agreed that we needed certain notice before she leaves. Keeping the deposit is not so much about the cost of gas (which she has agreed to repay), but about the lack of notice. Just wondering if we have a leg to stand on? We have a contract that says failure to give notice = no deposit, but it seems the contract might not hold up? Just wondering. All the feedback is really appreciated.

Captain Flaps · 25-11-2015 2:04pm

Agreed, it was a stupid mistake and she's offered to move out, probably sooner than she'd like so as to facilitate your wishes. Do you want to force her to serve out her notice?

Either way, what she did was silly but no damage done and the cost of gas/electricity was probably not massive. You might ask her for a small contribution to the costs (like 20 quid or something) but I can't see any grounds at all for holding on to her deposit.

Butters1979 · 25-11-2015 2:04pm

you have mutually agreed to terminate the contract, how the hell can you think you can withhold her deposit. The legal right has nothing to do with this. Give her the deposit back and move on.
As mitresize5 just said, this is the amateur bull*** greed that gives landlords a bad name.

Butters1979 · 25-11-2015 2:05pm

HelpWithTenant wrote: »

I didn't realize she was not an actual tenant, but a licensee. I want her out immediately - with regards to the deposit, we had agreed that we needed certain notice before she leaves. Keeping the deposit is not so much about the cost of gas (which she has agreed to repay), but about the lack of notice. Just wondering if we have a leg to stand on? We have a contract that says failure to give notice = no deposit, but it seems the contract might not hold up? Just wondering. All the feedback is really appreciated.

You try to pull that and she will just stay for 28 days. Lack of notice is not when you mutually agree. You also sounds like you are renting out when you have no idea of the laws regarding what you are doing.

foggy_lad · 25-11-2015 2:13pm

OP as you gave the licensee a contract(even not signed) then she is legally entitled to the notice that is mentioned in the contract so she can stay for a month if she wants and there is very little you can do apart from try to pay her to leave by guaranteeing her deposit when you get the keys back.

As soon as she is gone you need to change the locks!

25-11-2015 2:13pm

Have a read of this:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

Fortunately for you, you hold all the cards. You can keep her deposit and she would have to pursue you through the small claims court. You don't have to give her notice and she doesn't have to give you notice, although most licensees do as they know they need to play nice to get the deposit back from the Landlord.

As to whether or not you should keep the deposit, that's another matter.

Captain Flaps · 25-11-2015 2:15pm

You've told her you want her out immediately, and you now also want her to forfeit her deposit for complying with you? You sound like a nightmare to be honest.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 25-11-2015 2:16pm

OP you want your cake and to eat it as well. You want her out, she wants out. What's the problem. Would you prefer she decided to wait out the 28 days then? It's probably going to be more of a hassle for her to find new accommodation than for you to replace her.

I sympathised with you having to share with someone so flaky, but now you are coming across as greedy and money grubbing.

FortySeven · 25-11-2015 2:16pm

So the girls a bit scatter brained, fair enough , get her out but why do you feel you have the right to steal her money. That's below the belt. You should be ashamed of yourself.

bucketybuck · 25-11-2015 2:21pm

Thread is basically "I want to keep the money but can't think of a valid reason why, any suggestions..."

No wonder there is no trust in renting.

25-11-2015 2:56pm

HelpWithTenant wrote: »

She had left the gas stove on for almost 7 hours and the house was filled with gas.

Shouldn't there be a safety feature that shuts the gas off if there is no flame?

jlm29 · 25-11-2015 3:12pm

ronoc wrote: »

Shouldn't there be a safety feature that shuts the gas off if there is no flame?

This was my thought too...- maybe look into that OP. It's a total contradiction. "I want her to go immediately, but I want to charge her for it".
Sounds like the OP hasn't the deposit to give if back!

Rackstar · 25-11-2015 3:12pm

Give the girl her deposit back. Go your separate ways.

Chalk it down to experience and don't steal her money.

Wabbit Ears · 25-11-2015 3:17pm

Best thing for everybody is a clean amicable split. Give her back the deposit upon return of keys. Walk away with a clear concience.

Greenmachine · 25-11-2015 3:21pm

Girl is a licensee even with a contract, you can ask her to leave at a moments notice. Not particularly pleasant, but those are the shakes, when you live,with a landlord. You want her out as quick as possible so, she is going to be in a tight enough spot. I would not hold onto her deposit unnecessarily.

Brutal2015 · 25-11-2015 3:22pm

Wow... I am really sorry I asked for advice with this. I deleted the account I had used, but thought some context might downgrade some of the nasty comments - this was a friend of a friend situation, where we took in someone from overseas who was moving to Dublin and was having trouble finding affordable accommodation. It has turned into a nightmare. So, you are correct - I don't know the intricacies of the law surrounding this... we just took someone in who was vouched for by a friend and have actually paying loads of money because she leaves everything on... we are not horrible people and we are not money-grubbers. We are just in a difficult spot and I thought I might get some advice. But clearly not.

Wabbit Ears · 25-11-2015 3:27pm

The advice is to give her back the deposit...thats advice, just not advice you want to hear.

godtabh · 25-11-2015 3:27pm

HelpWithTenant wrote: »

I didn't realize she was not an actual tenant, but a licensee. I want her out immediately - with regards to the deposit, we had agreed that we needed certain notice before she leaves. Keeping the deposit is not so much about the cost of gas (which she has agreed to repay), but about the lack of notice. Just wondering if we have a leg to stand on? We have a contract that says failure to give notice = no deposit, but it seems the contract might not hold up? Just wondering. All the feedback is really appreciated.

It goes both ways. You dont have to give her notice she doesnt have to give you notice.

bucketybuck · 25-11-2015 3:29pm

Brutal2015 wrote: »

Wow... I am really sorry I asked for advice with this. I deleted the account I had used, but thought some context might downgrade some of the nasty comments

Just because you didn't want to hear it doesn't make it a nasty comment. :rolleyes:

Rackstar · 25-11-2015 3:35pm

Brutal2015 wrote: »

Wow... I am really sorry I asked for advice with this. I deleted the account I had used, but thought some context might downgrade some of the nasty comments - this was a friend of a friend situation, where we took in someone from overseas who was moving to Dublin and was having trouble finding affordable accommodation. It has turned into a nightmare. So, you are correct - I don't know the intricacies of the law surrounding this... we just took someone in who was vouched for by a friend and have actually paying loads of money because she leaves everything on... we are not horrible people and we are not money-grubbers. We are just in a difficult spot and I thought I might get some advice. But clearly not.

Clearly the arrangement means the girls rent includes bills as you've no way of breaking them down.

You came on looking for advice on how to steal money from a friend of a friend who is visiting our country. Nobody is going to help you with that. Give the girl her money, go your separate ways and leave it at that.

Magicmatilda · 25-11-2015 3:36pm

Brutal2015 wrote: »

Wow... I am really sorry I asked for advice with this. I deleted the account I had used, but thought some context might downgrade some of the nasty comments - this was a friend of a friend situation, where we took in someone from overseas who was moving to Dublin and was having trouble finding affordable accommodation. It has turned into a nightmare. So, you are correct - I don't know the intricacies of the law surrounding this... we just took someone in who was vouched for by a friend and have actually paying loads of money because she leaves everything on... we are not horrible people and we are not money-grubbers. We are just in a difficult spot and I thought I might get some advice. But clearly not.

You have received quite a lot of advice. Give her the deposit back - that is the overwhelming majority of the advice. You just don't like it.

Legally you can probably keep her money although she most likely could pursue you through the courts. Morally I think it would be an immoral thing to do. You would be better to let her leave ASAP and return her deposit to facilitate that.

intheclouds · 25-11-2015 3:46pm

What nasty comments?

You still havent explained why you want to keep her deposit?

Issue with tenant

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