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Strava changes

  • 18-05-2020 7:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭


    https://www.strava.com/subscription/from-our-founders
    starting today, a few of our free features that are especially complex and expensive to maintain, like segment leaderboards, will become subscription features.

    :eek: Looks like I'll be renewing my lapsed subscription.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,596 ✭✭✭✭dahat


    Only reason I've got premium is that I can use phone credit via 3pay. As I've a few other bike related subs I'd bin Strava first admittedly.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i'm surprised they left the free version with so many functions for so long. i ponied up for it, because i reckoned it was fair to pay for something i find useful, but my actual use of strava has barely changed as a result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭bikedude


    Or it will reduce the use of Strava, we will go back to be out for spins and not worry about it.

    Would say Today’s leaderboard and overall was a nice hook to keep people engaged in the app.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,937 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    i'm surprised they left the free version with so many functions for so long.]...
    I could never understand that either. There was so much with the free version that there was little incentive to subscribe to the paid version.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    So what stays with the free version? Can you see your time on a segment? I was tempted to subscribe but when lockdown occured I choose Zwift over it. As for if I'd subscribe after all this is over, maybe but I kind of lost interest when they don't appoint local operators to delete or correct questionable data. If that came in I might but considering the numbers of cheaters, I am happy out with the free version if I can just track my own time on segments.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    bikedude wrote: »
    Or it will reduce the use of Strava, we will go back to be out for spins and not worry about it.

    Would say Today’s leaderboard and overall was a nice hook to keep people engaged in the app.
    not much good for strava if people were engaged in the app but not paying for it?

    i'm not a dba, but it must be some task when someone creates a new segment on strava, for them to then had to go back and calculate everyone who had cycled that segment before (going back maybe 10 years) to calculate a new leaderboard. granted, it certainly doesn't happen instantly, but the fact it's possible is impressive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,142 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    It's impressive, but I'd say automated with little, if any, human interaction when new segments are created.

    I'd reckon most man hours are spent on development and investigation of flagged segments etc


  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭Takca


    Its more then just leader boards not working if you don't pay,
    It looks like pretty much every 3rd party app out there that does
    anything with leader boards will also stop working, even if you are a paid subscriber.

    dcrainmaker has more info here
    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/05/strava-cuts-off-leaderboard-for-free-users-reduces-3rd-party-apps-for-all-and-more.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's impressive, but I'd say automated with little, if any, human interaction when new segments are created.

    I'd reckon most man hours are spent on development and investigation of flagged segments etc


    Leaderboards can be pretty resource intensive, either have to have some level of caching (costs $$$) or have the hardware such that queires are returned in a reasonable time ($$$). Efficiently programming leaderboards is a hard task.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    not much good for strava if people were engaged in the app but not paying for it?

    i'm not a dba, but it must be some task when someone creates a new segment on strava, for them to then had to go back and calculate everyone who had cycled that segment before (going back maybe 10 years) to calculate a new leaderboard. granted, it certainly doesn't happen instantly, but the fact it's possible is impressive.

    It’s done automatically and fairly quickly. It’s not like there is someone physically checking through previous segment times to place your time. A computer program does it and it’ll appear within an hour or less usually.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i know, but searching back through ten years worth of data and matching that segment to everyone who's ever ridden it and each time they've ridden it, is impressive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    That's a bit ****. It's not like they're not making a fortune selling the data to companies and councils as it is


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,952 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    i know, but searching back through ten years worth of data and matching that segment to everyone who's ever ridden it and each time they've ridden it, is impressive.

    It's not really...its only ever incremental as each day passes - the leaderboards for existing segments would have been built, indexed and partitioned accordingly when they were created, and are only ever being appended to (if using traditional RDBMS tech) - if they are using a graph db or other mmp architecture it would be faster again.

    When you create a new segment, you can see that it starts building the leaderboard backwards in time after a few minutes, refresh the leaderboard every 5 mins and you see older times being added to it and your own time gradually falling down... That's where the donkey work is done. The positions are then created on the fly whenever someone queries the db/checks a segment, which should be fast enough.

    /work in data architecture


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ah yeah, i know it's *technically* perfectly reasonable, i kinda mean 'isn't it great that we've reached a point where this is routine and expected'. that i could create a segment and realise that i managed to cycle it at 42km/h on my birthday eight years ago.


  • Posts: 3,621 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    I was a subscriber in the past I guess I will have to pony up again.

    It's only the price of a pint every month. Well worth it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 872 ✭✭✭mamax


    Been using it for years and was summit but while out for a year after surgery 2 years ago I realised when I got back on the bike I didn't use those so called extra features so they can add all the features they want I won't be paying for something I don't need :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Realistically if Wahoo/ Garmin/ Zwift all reciprocated, and limited the data they allowed Strava to take, where would that leave them?

    Strava are social media - no one pays for social media, whether that's fair or not.

    I was a subscriber, think it was Summit, until they decided my data was theirs and stopped allowing Relive to access my data. Anyway, I wouldn't be paying annual upfront, as it seems they're always messing with the subscription model, which to me doesn't seem to indicate a sound financial plan - they seem to be grapsing at different plans to make money.

    I'm not that interested in the segments, and for routing there's better options out there - definitely better if you were going to pay for just the routing. I've tried using routing in strava, but it's píss poor compared to ridewithgps.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I got two KOMs on the ride in this morning, nothing else seems to have changed so I obviously used very little or it will be tomorrow when they make all the changes?

    Thinly veiled, I got two KOMs post

    On a serious note, when you subscribe, can you re report rides that are marked as solved. For the price of it, I'd do that. I left my GPS on in the car before and was happy someone reported it but some people seem to ignore it, others even apparently driving around to get KOMs. It has put me off Strava some what as they don't police it, which I understand would cost more unless they hired local volunteers or reps. I'd pay if I could report rides that are doing 80kmph one way, stopping in Dunnes and then doing 80kmph in the opposite direction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,142 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Strava are social media - no one pays for social media, whether that's fair or not.

    Users are hammered with ads and spam for all sorts of crap, you aren't in Strava, which would be the alternative.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    CramCycle wrote: »
    On a serious note, when you subscribe, can you re report rides that are marked as solved.
    no, i tried to report one but got a message saying you can't report a ride that had been flagged and allowed stand.
    i was toying of putting in a feature request to be able to block riders as a way around this.
    FWIW, it's this one, someone doing the steep part of newtownpark avenue at a claimed 64km/h, at the end of a ride with some decent climbing.

    https://www.strava.com/segments/17828072


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    they've also clarified that their new auto-detection capability is *not* retroactive.
    i assume what they're looking for is something like a time on a segment that has a decent amount of traffic, that's well outside the cluster of times you'd usually see at the top of a leaderboard; also would be curious if they'd be more likely to flag it if the rider has no or few KOMs prior to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Users are hammered with ads and spam for all sorts of crap, you aren't in Strava, which would be the alternative.
    eh, "challenges" in strava...


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,382 ✭✭✭✭greendom


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Realistically if Wahoo/ Garmin/ Zwift all reciprocated, and limited the data they allowed Strava to take, where would that leave them?

    Strava are social media - no one pays for social media, whether that's fair or not.

    I was a subscriber, think it was Summit, until they decided my data was theirs and stopped allowing Relive to access my data. Anyway, I wouldn't be paying annual upfront, as it seems they're always messing with the subscription model, which to me doesn't seem to indicate a sound financial plan - they seem to be grapsing at different plans to make money.

    I'm not that interested in the segments, and for routing there's better options out there - definitely better if you were going to pay for just the routing. I've tried using routing in strava, but it's píss poor compared to ridewithgps.

    Always worth reminding that if you're not paying for social media, you are the product


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    greendom wrote: »
    Always worth reminding that if you're not paying for social media, you are the product
    I'm comfortable with that. Like I said, I did pay and they still took me as a product, so I unsubscribed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    greendom wrote: »
    Always worth reminding that if you're not paying for social media, you are the product

    Even if you pay you're still part of the data product Strava offer to third parties.



    TBH Strava is doing VERY little for your €60pa. Thats the same price as backblaze which will backup 20TB from one machine if you want, something that has a real hosting cost. Storage per user is negligible, bandwidth is TINY (a few points back and forth, everything's rendered in the client) bar a couple images, the graphing involved in segment matching was computationally hard in 1992 - its easy now.

    If you're looking for a training product then I don't think Strava is what anyone serious opts for. If you're looking for a social network then the benefit is your mates are on it. Right now(covid aside) if I go on a ride with 11 others 5-8 will be on Strava. Very rare more than 1 has summit. If it loses critical mass it'll go the way of Bebo and Google+. Honestly priming themselves for Garmin to spin something up and subvent it with device sales. Wahoo, while great, are still miniscule compared to Wahoo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,317 ✭✭✭Daroxtar


    no, i tried to report one but got a message saying you can't report a ride that had been flagged and allowed stand.
    i was toying of putting in a feature request to be able to block riders as a way around this.
    FWIW, it's this one, someone doing the steep part of newtownpark avenue at a claimed 64km/h, at the end of a ride with some decent climbing.

    https://www.strava.com/segments/17828072
    Haha, that's gas, the top 5 and majority of the top 10 are dodgy or the area is full of world class athletes!!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,337 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    ED E wrote: »
    Wahoo, while great, are still miniscule compared to Wahoo.

    Mind Blown


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,975 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Daroxtar wrote: »
    Haha, that's gas, the top 5 and majority of the top 10 are dodgy or the area is full of world class athletes!!
    check out the activity on number 2. he went from doing 8km/h on some segments to 70km/h on a minor downhill. looks like a classic bike on the car job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    In comparison the women's leaderboard looks quite sensible, is it just the men that are taking the pi$$?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,161 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Mind Blown

    Derp. Working nights will do that to you :o


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