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Central Heating Upgrade 1980's Bungalow

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  • 26-04-2020 2:47pm
    #1
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭


    Apologies if this is in the wrong forum but if so could the moderators please move it to one more appropriate?

    My parent's are looking to upgrade the central heating in the family home and have asked me to research the options. Father is retired with 2 years and my mother is retiring at the end of the summer. They still live in the family home, 4 bed bungalow built in the mid-80's, kitchen, sitting room and bathroom. Located in rural county Cork. Current central heating setup is a solid fuel stove in the kitchen with back boiler and circulation pump. My mother is adamant at not spending another winter drawing coal and timber in from the shed everyday to heat the house. That and the daily cleaning out of ashes is too much for my parents facing into retirement. So they're looking to change the central heating setup to something thermostat controlled that will heat the house up quickly, efficiently and without the labour.

    All options are on the table, oil, gas, etc. There's plenty of room on the site, small lawn out the back and a 1/4 acre lawn out the front. My aunt had a flogas LPG tank installed a few years back is happy with it and the parents are leaning in that direction.

    What is the best option? Whatever is installed will have to see them out. 20 years or so all going well. Not too concerned with resale value or any of that, it's the family home and whatever will allow them enjoy their retirement in a warm house without breaking the bank in terms of installation cost and fuel costs is best. The house had double glazing installed 15 years ago or so, the wall cavities are insulated (with what I don't know) and the roof is insulated with fiberglass wool. It's a typical 80's bungalow with large windows which aren't great for energy efficiency.

    1. Oil: I'm fearful of price fluctuations and potential environmental penalties.

    2. LPG: Seems the preferred option. What is the approx. cost of installation? Does the boiler have to be indoors? There's not much room in the house for a boiler.

    3. Air-to-water: Would be the most economically friendly and most cost efficient to run. But I don't know would the parents ever recoup the installations costs. And the initial outlay might be too much for them.

    I'd appreciate any advice on this please from those with experience!


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    #2
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    OP, I'm going to move this to the plumbing & heating forum where you may get a better response.

    /Mod Note


    On a personal note, I've had LPG in a previous house. It was far and away the most expensive type of heating we'd ever had. It would be my very last choice.


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    #3
    Bawnmore
    Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Bawnmore


    Watching this one, as we're in a very similar situation here.


  • Options
    #4
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭almostover


    Bump....


  • Options
    #5
    Wearb
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,212 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wearb


    Most people consider lpg way too expensive. In your parents case oil is the way to go.

    Please follow site and charter rules. "Resistance is futile"



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    #6
    G-Man
    Registered Users Posts: 537 ✭✭✭G-Man


    What's the insulation and overall fabric like.. is cavity insulated, attic done well.

    Oil is going to be around a long while, equipment is cheap and repairs are easy for local plumber or DIY.


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    #7
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭almostover


    G-Man wrote: »
    What's the insulation and overall fabric like.. is cavity insulated, attic done well.

    Oil is going to be around a long while, equipment is cheap and repairs are easy for local plumber or DIY.

    Cavity is pumped with insulation, was done at the time of building and father remembers it being a fiberglass wool. Attic has rock wool type insulation between the ceiling joists. Double glazing installed about 15 years ago. Not a clue as to the BER for the house but guessing around a D rating.

    Father is a bit reluctant to get oil due to price fluctuations and potential Carbon taxes coming from a Green party coalition government.

    What are the options from a renewables perspective? Would we be wasting time and money with an air to water heat pump or a wood pellet boiler?


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    #8
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    almostover wrote: »
    Father is a bit reluctant to get oil due to price fluctuations and potential Carbon taxes coming from a Green party coalition government.

    At least with LPG he would have the certainty of knowing it's always expensive. :)


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    #9
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭almostover


    Graham wrote: »
    At least with LPG he would have the certainty of knowing it's always expensive. :)

    That's fair - it seems LPG is the most expensive option so let's rule that out.

    Leaves us with:

    Fossil Fuel:

    - Oil condensing boiler.

    Renewables:

    - Wood pellet boiler.
    - Air-to-water heat pump.

    Is a air-to-water system out of the question for an older build like my parents place?


  • Options
    #10
    Private Joker
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Private Joker


    What's the budget? I wouldn't discount air to water especially as your parents get older. It may require a substantial initial outlay but ongoing savings and comfort levels, to me would outweigh the cost.


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    #11
    almostover
    Registered Users Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭almostover


    Private Joker wrote: »
    What's the budget? I wouldn't discount air to water especially as your parents get older. It may require a substantial initial outlay but ongoing savings and comfort levels, to me would outweigh the cost.

    Budget is flexible. Father would rather pay more now for something that would be cheaper in the long run.

    What kind of costs are associated with air to water?

    Would it make sense for an older bungalow?


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    #12
    Private Joker
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Private Joker


    Hard to tell, the mantra is fabric first, so your walls and windows would need to have a relatively good u value. You would need to get a ber cert to determine what's feasible. A ball park figure for a typical 120m2 bungalow would be 15 grand including seai grants. This should include the units, changing rads and zoning.
    You would also need to service the windows and it would be recommended to decommission open fires.
    I would also consider heat recovery ventilation, which is an easy install in a bungalow that would cost about 3 to 4 grand.
    Check out the seai website theres loads of info on Grant's depending on your parents age and income.


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    #13
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    almostover wrote: »
    That's fair - it seems LPG is the most expensive option so let's rule that out.

    Leaves us with:

    Fossil Fuel:

    - Oil condensing boiler.

    Renewables:

    - Wood pellet boiler.
    - Air-to-water heat pump.

    Is a air-to-water system out of the question for an older build like my parents place?


    An alternative view perhaps. The best renewable is the kWhr you or your father doesn't use; i.e. concentrate your efforts (and euros) in first understanding the major heat loss mechanisms and then invest accordingly.
    Top tip; understand the proper answer to the following question ... why is a heating system needed in a house?


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    #14
    youtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭youtheman


    My parents house was built in the early 1970s. Single glazed wooden windows, no insulation in the wall cavity, no insulation in the ceiling. Piping was gun barrel metal, no insulation, buried in sand that was drawn from the beach!. Piping was the first thing to go.

    Now it's reasonably up to date (within reason). Double glazed pvc windows throughout. Ceiling well insulated. Cavity pumped with insulation. Bedrooms dry lined. All the piping is run through the ceiling (not ideal, risk of airlocking), but bedroom radiators are vertical with well insulated pipework hidden. Condensing boiler, 2 zones. Google nest controller.

    Point I am making is that you need to think about you piping regardless of whatever system you decide to go for. Is the existing piping up to standard?.

    Another thing, do you know you can get a substantial grant for the council for an upgrade to a house for elderly people (be it roof repairs, windows replacement, bathroom upgrade or new heating system).


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