Property Market 2020

08-01-2020 12:36pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

There is no official documentation for it but from my experience, the houses are usually left empty.

I managed to live rent free for 2 years in my girlfriends granny's house, family were happy to have us in there maintaining the place.

Absolute madness that these places are empty if so, government should allow them to be rented out for a set amount which could be a way of providing low cost rental accommodation. Win win for all

Browney7 · 08-01-2020 12:47pm

19233974 wrote: »

I managed to live rent free for 2 years in my girlfriends granny's house, family were happy to have us in there maintaining the place.

Absolute madness that these places are empty if so, government should allow them to be rented out for a set amount which could be a way of providing low cost rental accommodation. Win win for all

Except the property owner (potential landlord) is in residential care and probably not best placed to manage a tenancy or be au fait with the vagaries and technicalities of the tenancy act.

Graham · 08-01-2020 12:51pm

I think the biggest disincentive is likely the 'assessable income' part of the Fair Deal scheme.

Where is the incentive to rent out a property if the bulk of the rent is going to be swallowed?

Assetbacked · 08-01-2020 2:59pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/another-year-of-dysfunction-ahead-for-ireland-s-property-market-1.4133293

Some information in this article which stuck out for me;

"Realis is reported to be planning a 25-year agreement with Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, which will pay up to €3,000 a month to rent these properties to accommodate people on its social housing list.

This would set a high benchmark for people trying to rent under their own steam in the area, who then struggle to save the deposit required by the Central Bank to buy a house, which would be cheaper for them financially than paying sky-high rents."

This is astonishing - there is an extremely powerful lobby which has clearly come to some arrangement with the department in order to secure phenomenal returns on their investment at the expense of the taxpayer. €36k rent per annum is sickening for taxpayers to be paying. This is more than the median salary in Ireland! Talk about a disincentive to work.

The upcoming general election here is another possible fly in the ointment, with the potential for some politician or other to utter a throwaway comment on the housing crisis that could spook the market. It’s hard to imagine builders pressing the button on new builds until they know the shape of the next government and their likely policies on property.

"Throwaway comment" i.e. making a comment to speak out on behalf of the citizens rather than the institutional investors? Or talking about the market failure by not delivering to meet the needs of society? This is from the IT Business Editor so it is quite clear that his bread is buttered by certain vested interests.

opus · 08-01-2020 3:23pm

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Cheers yeah, madness what they did with the grass alright!

Weird pics for sure! Don't know anything about the house but certainly a good area, short walk to St Luke's cross. Bit unsure I'd call CUH a local amenity like it does in the blurb as it's ~5k away on the other side of the city

Sleepy · 08-01-2020 3:39pm

awec wrote: »

NZE is a good thing tbh. Doesn't really make sense why anyone wouldn't want it.

I'd have been of the same opinion but had an interesting conversation with a co-worker today that made me wonder about it. His 15 year old heat exchanger packed in on him on Christmas Eve. He didn't have the 12-15k he was quoted to replace it with a like-for-like heat exchanger and ended up having to get an oil-fired boiler based heating system and oil tank installed for about 8k.

When our own gas boiler went last year, we had a new one installed and all controls etc. upgraded for around 3k. Had we been looking at a similar level of bill as my colleague, we'd have been screwed.

It makes me wonder how maintainable some of the new standards will be for homeowners if the costs of replacing these highly efficient heating systems are so high...

Bigmac1euro · 08-01-2020 4:08pm

Sleepy wrote: »

12-15k

*Shudders

Facking hell

Sleepy · 08-01-2020 4:11pm

Yeah, not a bill you want to be facing unexpectedly and with little time to shop around to get sorted!

Unless the tech gets much, much cheaper, I can see a lot of these new A2/A3 homes ending up being retrograded to use oil / gas / solid fuel burners when the original units begin to reach end-of-life.

SozBbz · 08-01-2020 4:15pm

Hugh Wallace (architect and he's one of the House of the Year judges too) was on the radio recently saying that A rated houses are totally over the top and that Ireland is almost out on its own in enforcing such standards on all new builds.

He said a B rating would be much more achievable, make homes significantly more affordable and still end up with similar results. He also remarked that most A rated home owners just have their windows open non stop and the whole thing is a nonsense basically.

Ush1 · 08-01-2020 4:32pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Hugh Wallace (architect and he's one of the House of the Year judges too) was on the radio recently saying that A rated houses are totally over the top and that Ireland is almost out on its own in enforcing such standards on all new builds.

He said a B rating would be much more achievable, make homes significantly more affordable and still end up with similar results. He also remarked that most A rated home owners just have their windows open non stop and the whole thing is a nonsense basically.

Huh? Why would they do that?

L1011 · 08-01-2020 4:48pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Yeah, not a bill you want to be facing unexpectedly and with little time to shop around to get sorted!

Unless the tech gets much, much cheaper, I can see a lot of these new A2/A3 homes ending up being retrograded to use oil / gas / solid fuel burners when the original units begin to reach end-of-life.

The likelyhood is that within a decade gas/oil boilers will only be legally available for replacement of existing systems and you'd need to find a grey market way to get your hands on them.

The_Conductor · 08-01-2020 4:51pm

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

*Shudders

Facking hell

Not sure why its so high.
They've started putting heat exchangers in some car marques as an efficient way to manage climate control. Its standard in 2020 A5s and upwards and an option on lower models- for example. Once its rolled out as the defacto standard on cars- it can only really become a cheaper option for homes etc.

Most people got SEI grants for heat exchangers to begin with- perhaps there will be a grant to pay for their upgrade when the time comes?

sweetie · 08-01-2020 4:55pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Huh? Why would they do that?

Because it's too warm and it takes too long to cool down so opening a window is quicker. My sister has this type of system.

Sleepy · 08-01-2020 5:07pm

L1011 wrote: »

The likelyhood is that within a decade gas/oil boilers will only be legally available for replacement of existing systems and you'd need to find a grey market way to get your hands on them.

I don't disagree. I'm just wondering if such policies are going to have serious unintended consequences down the road. Repair bills of that level are likely to put a financial strain on most normal households...

Ush1 wrote: »

Huh? Why would they do that?

Even in our C rated home, myself and Mrs Sleepy have the window of our bedroom open 90% of the time despite the radiator in that room being switched off most of the time.

I presume we're not the only ones who find it more comfortable sleep in a room with a cooler temperature and higher levels of fresh air than other areas of the house?

SozBbz · 08-01-2020 5:38pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Huh? Why would they do that?

Have you spent time in an A rated house? They can be immensely warm, warmer than is comfortable for most.

I recently went to visit my friend in her new build home and she was cooking dinner for myself and one other friend in her kitchen (large, open plan room with den area attached). We were just sat on stools at the island and wearing leggings and t shirts, and still needed to open the windows because we were too warm.

There was no heating on and it was December.

Padre_Pio · 08-01-2020 6:19pm

SozBbz wrote: »

Have you spent time in an A rated house? They can be immensely warm, warmer than is comfortable for most.

I recently went to visit my friend in her new build home and she was cooking dinner for myself and one other friend in her kitchen (large, open plan room with den area attached). We were just sat on stools at the island and wearing leggings and t shirts, and still needed to open the windows because we were too warm.

There was no heating on and it was December.

Friends built a large passive house and put a small wood burner stove in the kitchen/dining room.

6 years later and it's never been lit. They have a second, larger stove in the living room that they light on cold nights and it heats the entire house. Windows and doors are generally left open in summer to keep the place cool. It's a lovely house to walk into, but you'd never need a jumper. He usually wears shorts and a tshirt inside.

Cuddlesworth · 08-01-2020 7:54pm

Sleepy wrote: »

I'd have been of the same opinion but had an interesting conversation with a co-worker today that made me wonder about it. His 15 year old heat exchanger packed in on him on Christmas Eve. He didn't have the 12-15k he was quoted to replace it with a like-for-like heat exchanger and ended up having to get an oil-fired boiler based heating system and oil tank installed for about 8k.

When our own gas boiler went last year, we had a new one installed and all controls etc. upgraded for around 3k. Had we been looking at a similar level of bill as my colleague, we'd have been screwed.

It makes me wonder how maintainable some of the new standards will be for homeowners if the costs of replacing these highly efficient heating systems are so high...

I pulled the solar water system out of my house. The pump went, I spent 3 months trying to get somebody who would repair it and got back quotes that were more expensive then quotes to fit a brand new system. Then the lifetime hot water tank sprung a leak on one of its welded fittings and that was it, ripped the whole lot out and put in a combi boiler.

I have found that household plumbers don't want to know anything about these systems right now and if they do, they only deal with a specific brand or type of system. I would assume assume they are going to have to learn, they they have had it pretty easy the last 3 decades with boilers that were just a power source, gas source and some basic plumbing.

lawred2 · 08-01-2020 8:39pm

sweetie wrote: »

Because it's too warm and it takes too long to cool down so opening a window is quicker. My sister has this type of system.

They've not configured the heating or the heat recovery correctly then.. we would rarely see fit to open windows

Idbatterim · 08-01-2020 9:08pm

the price decreases are being caused by the lending rules, which I totally support. But in this total banana republic and with the rental market the way it is. People would buy at nearly any price if the banks allowed it, like the boom. Hence I totally support the current restrictions imposed by the CB...

Idbatterim · 08-01-2020 9:12pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/another-year-of-dysfunction-ahead-for-ireland-s-property-market-1.4133293

Some information in this article which stuck out for me;

"Realis is reported to be planning a 25-year agreement with Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown County Council, which will pay up to €3,000 a month to rent these properties to accommodate people on its social housing list.

This would set a high benchmark for people trying to rent under their own steam in the area, who then struggle to save the deposit required by the Central Bank to buy a house, which would be cheaper for them financially than paying sky-high rents."

This is astonishing - there is an extremely powerful lobby which has clearly come to some arrangement with the department in order to secure phenomenal returns on their investment at the expense of the taxpayer. €36k rent per annum is sickening for taxpayers to be paying. This is more than the median salary in Ireland! Talk about a disincentive to work.

The upcoming general election here is another possible fly in the ointment, with the potential for some politician or other to utter a throwaway comment on the housing crisis that could spook the market. It’s hard to imagine builders pressing the button on new builds until they know the shape of the next government and their likely policies on property.

"Throwaway comment" i.e. making a comment to speak out on behalf of the citizens rather than the institutional investors? Or talking about the market failure by not delivering to meet the needs of society? This is from the IT Business Editor so it is quite clear that his bread is buttered by certain vested interests.

Depraved, I have to say, I was still somewhat shocked here! and I thought nothing could shock me in this banana republic anymore! Why not give them E500 weekly M and S vouchers too! hell, throw in cleaners too!

bdmc5 · 09-01-2020 1:41am

SozBbz wrote: »

Have you spent time in an A rated house? They can be immensely warm, warmer than is comfortable for most.

I recently went to visit my friend in her new build home and she was cooking dinner for myself and one other friend in her kitchen (large, open plan room with den area attached). We were just sat on stools at the island and wearing leggings and t shirts, and still needed to open the windows because we were too warm.

There was no heating on and it was December.

Are you seriously saying because you once visited a friend who new house was warm that suddenly the majority of people would find A rated homes uncomfortably warm?

One of best features of our new build is how cosy the house always is without being too warm or ever cold in fact. Consider drop in energy cost as well -- It certainly takes some getting used to to find the right level of heat and timings on the air to water but once you find the sweet spot would never go back to winter ICE boxes of the older lower BER rated homes again.

Padre_Pio · 09-01-2020 1:54am

bdmc5 wrote: »

Are you seriously saying because you once visited a friend who new house was warm that suddenly the majority of people would find A rated homes uncomfortably warm?
.

A rated houses aren't all the same.
The BER system can be gamed too. If all you're looking for is that A rating, you can do some unnecessary things just to tick the box and get your rating.

Ush1 · 09-01-2020 9:18am

sweetie wrote: »

Because it's too warm and it takes too long to cool down so opening a window is quicker. My sister has this type of system.

That shouldn't happen in a house that has proper levels of heating control, ventilation and air tightness.

Ush1 · 09-01-2020 9:21am

Sleepy wrote: »

Even in our C rated home, myself and Mrs Sleepy have the window of our bedroom open 90% of the time despite the radiator in that room being switched off most of the time.

I presume we're not the only ones who find it more comfortable sleep in a room with a cooler temperature and higher levels of fresh air than other areas of the house?

This isn't really much to do with BER which is a poor measurement anyway. If you have to have your window open all the time it's a ventilation or heating controls issue.

Your house shouldn't get too hot, especially in the winter, if it's designed correctly.

Ush1 · 09-01-2020 9:26am

SozBbz wrote: »

Have you spent time in an A rated house? They can be immensely warm, warmer than is comfortable for most.

I recently went to visit my friend in her new build home and she was cooking dinner for myself and one other friend in her kitchen (large, open plan room with den area attached). We were just sat on stools at the island and wearing leggings and t shirts, and still needed to open the windows because we were too warm.

There was no heating on and it was December.

Yes, and again, A rating doesn't mean all that much.

The house won't get a whole lot warmer than the ambient temp outside if there has been no heating on. How could it? A cooker on in a room will obviously warm that room up to some extent.

It sounds like a heating control issue to be honest.

SozBbz · 09-01-2020 10:28am

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes, and again, A rating doesn't mean all that much.

The house won't get a whole lot warmer than the ambient temp outside if there has been no heating on. How could it? A cooker on in a room will obviously warm that room up to some extent.

It sounds like a heating control issue to be honest.

If you read my post, I already said the heating was not on. The house has underfloor heating and we were in our socks (new house, shoes left at the door) so we would have felt it.

It was just having 3 people in the room and using cooking facilities and it became too warm.

Its not the first new house I've noticed this in and other posters have cited it before here.

Cuddlesworth · 09-01-2020 10:39am

Ush1 wrote: »

The house won't get a whole lot warmer than the ambient temp outside if there has been no heating on. How could it?

Lots of large windows and a big giant round heater in the sky, combined with no real way for heat to escape(except via heat/cooling system), plus a couple of small scale human heaters in there too.

bdmc5 · 09-01-2020 10:53am

SozBbz wrote: »

If you read my post, I already said the heating was not on. The house has underfloor heating and we were in our socks (new house, shoes left at the door) so we would have felt it.

It was just having 3 people in the room and using cooking facilities and it became too warm.

Its not the first new house I've noticed this in and other posters have cited it before here.

Unfortunately i did read your comment and this 2nd comment only confirms that some personal observations on your part doesnt in any way shape or form constitute the "majority of people"

In fact, it seems you may have abit of A Rated home envy

cruizer101 · 09-01-2020 11:04am

Ush1 wrote: »

Yes, and again, A rating doesn't mean all that much.

The house won't get a whole lot warmer than the ambient temp outside if there has been no heating on. How could it? A cooker on in a room will obviously warm that room up to some extent.

It sounds like a heating control issue to be honest.

An A1 rated house is supposed to use less than 25 kWh/m2/year, so for a 100m2 house that is 2500 kWh/year.

The solar energy that falls on a south facing window ranges between 0.97 and 2.68 kWh/m2/day, though its over 2 for 8 months of year, and average is about 2 (source).
Lets take the average 2, and lets say 10m2 of windows south facing.
Solar Heat Gain Coefficient, SHGC, is factor for amount of solar energy that gets through window typically ranges between 0.3 and 0.5.
2 kWh/m2/day * 10m2 * 0.3 = 6kWh/day solar heat gain, which is over 2000kWh/year in just solar gain.

Add that to other heat sources and its easy to see how it could get too warm in a house and easily warmer than outside.

lawred2 · 09-01-2020 11:13am

cruizer101 wrote: »

An A1 rated house is supposed to use less than 25 kWh/m2/year, so for a 100m2 house that is 2500 kWh/year.

The solar energy that falls on a south facing window ranges between 0.97 and 2.68 kWh/m2/day, though its over 2 for 8 months of year, and average is about 2 (source).
Lets take the average 2, and lets say 10m2 of windows south facing.
Solar Heat Gain Coefficient, SHGC, is factor for amount of solar energy that gets through window typically ranges between 0.3 and 0.5.
2 kWh/m2/day * 10m2 * 0.3 = 6kWh/day solar heat gain, which is over 2000kWh/year in just solar gain.

Add that to other heat sources and its easy to see how it could get too warm in a house and easily warmer than outside.

yes an A rated house keeps it heat

and yes an A rated house requires very little heating and adequately ventilated reaches a stable ambient temperature very quickly..

If you were in an A rated house that didn't allow for a stable ambient temperature then the ventilation system is either not configured properly or not functioning correctly..

Property Market 2020

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