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M3 tolls - Who will be bypassing?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    In Catalonia in Spain they have toll bridges every 20km or so on the motorways/dueal cariageways.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 1,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    corktina wrote: »
    you want a road but dont want to pay for it...has to be paid for either through tolls or through your taxes...at least with a toll road you can choose NOT to pay which you cant do with a non-toll road.

    I drive from Navan to Dublin and back every day. Won't be paying any tolls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭burger1979


    chewed wrote: »
    That just sums up the Irish attitude towards every rip off in this country. TBH, I would love to see everyone avoiding the tolls on this unnecessary road to show the NRA/NTR that we won't accept excessive tolling across the county.

    your right, an attitude of laziness i feel brought on by the last years of booming economy more expandable income etc. etc. (and i am as guilty of it too from time to time) but thats another days arguement. It is excessive tolling no doubt about it, do you think though that if the tolls are not used then the toll operator will drop the cost? thats something that i cannot see happening tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭chewed


    burger1979 wrote: »
    your right, an attitude of laziness i feel brought on by the last years of booming economy more expandable income etc. etc. (and i am as guilty of it too from time to time) but thats another days arguement. It is excessive tolling no doubt about it, do you think though that if the tolls are not used then the toll operator will drop the cost? thats something that i cannot see happening tbh.

    No, I doubt it. If they're going to get reimbursed for the loss on tolling from the government, then why would they reduce the prices? It's a win win situation for them from what I can gather.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    well of course it is...they wouldnt have put up the cash for it otherswise


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  • Registered Users Posts: 988 ✭✭✭manutd


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    There's not even that, though a set of pedestrian lights did go up at the junction to the health centre recently.

    As it is today a set of lights at that junction is badly needed - try getting through it around 9:15 in the morning when the mummys are all dropping little Johnny/Mary to the school up that road. :(
    Plus you have the cars pulling in and out of the Statoil/O'Dwyers garage that's positioned right on that corner too :rolleyes:

    Was there not talk of a Virginia bypass too at some point though?
    Were the NRA and CCC out during the summer, looking at having a by-pass from the M3 to Cavan Town. It was in the Celt during the summer, ever heard since about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    burger1979 wrote: »
    I travel from navan to sandyford every day. i dont pay the M50 toll in the morning but do in the afternoon. I dont think that i'll be using the M3 when it starts, i mean if i was to use motorway all the way it will be about €8-€10 per day, which is just madness. i would be hoping that there will be enough of a take up in traffic on the M3 that the R147(N3) will be relatively quiet in the evenings going to navan and the times will drop by a bit to what they are now.

    It's a pity that the tolling structure doesn't give Burger1979 an incentive to use public transport. If the southern toll on the M3 was moved further south then Burger could use the P&R take the train into the city and walk across to the Green Line and be out in Sandyford. Might take him or her a little longer then car but with reduced stress and tolls!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,576 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Where exactly are these tolls going?

    I know one is going in just beyond the Trim/Ratoath junction, but the one around Navan - is it going to be the Dublin side of Navan or the Kells side?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    BrianD wrote: »
    It's a pity that the tolling structure doesn't give Burger1979 an incentive to use public transport. If the southern toll on the M3 was moved further south then Burger could use the P&R take the train into the city and walk across to the Green Line and be out in Sandyford. Might take him or her a little longer then car but with reduced stress and tolls!

    train fare might be more than the toll I guess...


  • Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭burger1979


    BrianD wrote: »
    It's a pity that the tolling structure doesn't give Burger1979 an incentive to use public transport. If the southern toll on the M3 was moved further south then Burger could use the P&R take the train into the city and walk across to the Green Line and be out in Sandyford. Might take him or her a little longer then car but with reduced stress and tolls!

    i would use public transport if it was a viable option. i can take the bus into town then the luas and this would be ok in the morning i think as the bus goes to stephens green from navan, but in the evening take te luas to town walk across the city to busaras, the bus from there to navan. i would say about 2 hours to get home in the evenings. probably 1.5 hours in the morning. car in the morning is 45 mins. in the evening usually 1 hours. My wife gets the bus into town everyday but she works in trinity so its handier for her. if there was a train option all the way to pearse then that would be better, but then thats not going to happen for a few years now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 997 ✭✭✭Colm R


    Any idea what the price of the tolls are going to be for trucks.

    I was in Kells last friday, around 2pm, and the place was riddled with trucks. And Kells is a tough town to walk around, I hope the bypass takes some traffic off, but I think the price is too steep.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭chewed


    Colm R wrote: »
    Any idea what the price of the tolls are going to be for trucks.

    I was in Kells last friday, around 2pm, and the place was riddled with trucks. And Kells is a tough town to walk around, I hope the bypass takes some traffic off, but I think the price is too steep.

    The price for trucks will most likely be excessive! I think the only way to get rid of the trucks from the town is to put a ban on them and force them to use the motorway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,797 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    from the M3 fan club website ;-)
    http://www.tarawatch.org

    Note,
    a) this is year 2000 prices, so add a paddy premium of 60 to 100% for 2010 prices
    b) theres 2 toll booths, coming from Virginia, Cavan, Kells using the Kells + Navan by pass you pass through both, for Navan only 1 toll.
    Estimated Amounts of the Tolls that it is Proposed to Charge at each of the two

    CLASS OF TRAFFIC ESTIMATED TOLL CHARGES*
    Euro (€) (excluding VAT)

    Motor Cycles (exceeding 50cc) €0.45
    Motor Cars €0.875
    Buses or Coaches €1.325
    Goods Vehicles with a design gross vehicle weight not exceeding 3,500 kilograms €1.325
    Goods Vehicles with a design gross vehicle weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms and having two or three axles €1.75
    Goods Vehicles with a design gross vehicle weight exceeding 3,500 kilograms and having four or more axles €2.15

    So for a truck doing 2 return runs from Virginia to Dublin and back you'd be looking at 17.20 a day (at 2000 prices) to use a motorway that is as quick (almost) for a HGV as a National road.
    So now with 2010 prices it'd be tipping 25 euro a day, or 125 a week
    or 6 THOUSAND EURO over a 48 working week year.

    so if you ask me, you will still see the Hauliers on the streets of Kells/ Navan and Dunsaughlin for many years to come!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    a business expense, deductable from profits...add in the extra diesel and wear and tear (not to mention time ) spent avoiding the toll,and it evens it up a bit doesnt it....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    BrianD wrote: »
    It's a pity that the tolling structure doesn't give Burger1979 an incentive to use public transport. If the southern toll on the M3 was moved further south then Burger could use the P&R take the train into the city and walk across to the Green Line and be out in Sandyford. Might take him or her a little longer then car but with reduced stress and tolls!

    Public transport is more stressful than driving IMO. Standing for an hour with barely space to stand or air to breathe is stressful.

    Public transport is fine if you can get a seat, least your guaranteed that in a car with the radio for comfort and you get to where you want to go and remain dry.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Note: The vast majority of people using the M3 will only be paying one toll, not two. The second toll I believe is only paid by people coming from Kells or further out.

    Anyone who refuses to pay a toll loses their right to complain about long commutes on poor quality roads. This road was promised for decades so I urge everyone to use it and stop shooting yourselves in the foot.

    However! Additional things I'd add:
    - Expedite Navan Phase 2 railway - that way Navan people don't have to drive to Pace to get the railway (and therefore pay a toll)
    - Free parking at Navan railway station to encourage use of it
    - Big push to get people cycling to Navan station - lots of sheltered bike parking and bike lanes in the town
    - Continue with Metro north and DART interconnector - these are necessary to allow Navan line passengers to make quick connections when arriving in the centre of Dublin - eliminates walking south to catch Luas Green Line etc.

    This way, people using public transport aren't penalised for doing so. Only people who actually need to drive would be doing so.
    thebman wrote: »
    Public transport is more stressful than driving IMO. Standing for an hour with barely space to stand or air to breathe is stressful.
    When it's poor quality it's like that. It's not meant to be poor quality. If we invested in it appropriately, it would be less stressful than driving.


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