Pyrite & Ireland

Don't expect any swift actions from the redress board-its going to be a slow, long process.

jd wrote: »

Have you any indication on how long it could be before actual remediation starts anywhere?

Years would be my guess from what I was told. And you have to be one of the worst effected to get into the line even.

hi guys, i just posted this on another thread but this looks more relevant.

i'm looking at a particular house in dunboyne, i have heard rumours that there is pyrite in the estate, how can i establish the extent of the problem? also is there a safe level of pyrite or more to the point what percentage would be a huge flashing light to step away?

thanks Michael, very serious about the house but its already at the top end of our budget and i'm completely ignorant about the potential pitfalls down the road even if nothing is showing up now, basically i guess my question is, if testing is done will it definitely show up?

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, an engineer, builder etc.

The only way to be certain if there are no visual signs of structural damage is to get a core drill test done. This involves an engineering company drilling down through the floor and concrete slab in at least two locations for an average 3/4 bed semi (the number of sample locations required depends on the size of the house) and removing a few kg of infill to take away for analysis. It takes a few weeks for the lab results to come back but it will give you a clear indication if pyrite is present. If the material fails the first chemical analysis a more detailed (x-ray defraction?) test can be performed to determine the exact concentrations (I do not know the test process in detail just what I have been told so please take this information with a pinch of salt).

There is a scale for pyrite - if the house is clear or has acceptable amounts of pyrite (green) or pyrite present above the threshold but no structural damage visible (amber) or pyrite present with clear signs of structural damage (red). Houses are also graded category 1 is amber and category 2 is red.

If you are looking to secure a mortgage on the property your bank will require a green cert if there are indications of pyrite contamination in the estate or surrounding area. In fact anyone buying a house built during the boom years and even possibly before should be requesting a green cert from the vendor. The test itself costs upwards of €1700 and the flooring material needs to be replaced where the bore holes are. Many people are unfortunate to not have kept spare tiles.

In terms of pyrite damage there is no clear time frame - some say at least 10 years but experience varies and others say anything up to 40 years before a judgement could be made that the presence of high levels of pyrite is not likely to damage the property. There is simply no clear rule and every case is different. It is worth looking at the experience of Canada on this front.

It also depends on the construction of the house whether the ground slab was poured on top of the affected infill or if the house is a suspended slab and is not in contact with the infill. This is possibly why in a pyrite affected estate one house can be severely damaged while a neighboring property is not showing any signs yet is likely to have pyrite present in the infill as well.

If you are in any way concerned about pyrite the only way to be 100% certain is to retain a proper engineering company to do the test. A visual survey is not sufficient to be certain that a property is unaffected.

This is just my two cents on this topic, maybe those with professional experience can offer better information than I have. I won't comment on the half arsed approach of the government to addressing victims of cowboy builders or the complete lack of regulation and oversight of the building sector that allowed this to happen in the first place.

No problem - just one more point since you're looking in Dunboyne. Developments in Meath are one of the regions particularly at risk of pyrite issues. It's worth looking at the report of the Pyrite Panel which looks at where infill with pyritic content came from:

http://www.pyriteboard.ie/Pyrite/media/Pyrite/Updated/Report-of-Pyrite-Panel-June-2012.pdf

If I were you I would ask the following questions upfront before bidding:

1) Has the vendor obtained a green cert for the property? If not will they provide one?
2) Is your estate agent or the vendor aware of pyrite in nearby estates or the estate you are looking to buy in? Get this in writing if possible.
3) Is the property detached, semi-detached or mid-terrace? This will have implications for any remediation effort if pyrite is found.
4) Is the house built on a ground or suspended slab?
5) Is the developer/builder still solvent and operating as a going concern or have they gone into receivership/liquidation? If still operating do they have liability insurance in place that would cover remediation works due to pyrite?
6) Related to q above - was the house covered by Homebond or another insurer for structural defects?
7) It could even be worth your while just googling and seeing what comes up - pyrite+the estate name or area or getting in contact with the Pyrite Action Group and seeing if there is anyone from the estate or area working with them or they may know if houses from the estate or general area have been accepted into the PRB scheme for remedial works.

While this might seem a bit ott and may not be a problem with this house - I would advise you to be very cautious as many vendors with possible pyrite problems will try to conceal this fact from prospective buyers particularly if there is no visible structural damage.

It is possible to pick up a pyrite affected property at a reduced price and this can work out in your favour even after paying to fix it (again this is case by case and would depend on the level of damage - there are houses which are pyrite affected but with no damage and others with inch wide cracks in the walls).

Entering into a purchase fully sighted of a pyrite issue and its possible implications is very different to a scenario of paying full price for a property and then uncovering a pyrite problem afterwards.

I'm buying an apartment in the Waterville estate in Blanchardstown Dublin 15. Would anyone have heard of a Pyrite issue for this estate in the past?
Thanks.

christin wrote: »

I'm buying an apartment in the Waterville estate in Blanchardstown Dublin 15. Would anyone have heard of a Pyrite issue for this estate in the past?
Thanks.

Find out where the infill for the ground floor came from and was it from a quarry associated with pyrite. Waterville is a good sized estate so if there is/was a pyrite issue it should be easily discovered even though there was a court order keeping the issue quiet.
In addition if there was a pyrite issue and the home was repaired there would be a certificate available to show that the property would be free of pyrite.

christin wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.
Forgive my ignorance, I'm a first time buyer. What or how is the best way to find out which quarry did the infill come from? Is word of mouth or Internet search the best way? I'd say the builders (Granbrind) won't tell me this kind of information.

Your solicitor can find that out. It’s quite likely that a number of quarries would have been used though. You could check locally if the estate has had pyrite issues. If there is pyrite present, it would have become apparent within a few years of the buildings completion

Thanks for highlighting this. Much appreciated

christin wrote: »

Thanks for highlighting this. Much appreciated

No problem hope all went well with your purchase

Hello @christin , did you manage to find this out ? I've gone sale agreed on one of the apartments in Waterville Terrace and my bank is asking me for proof that there are no pyrite issues before I can receive my offer letter. What would be the best way to find this out ?

Awaiting response.