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Are we really back to this sh*t again?

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Comments

  • #92
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,083 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Smoked Tuna wrote: »
    Food shelter and water, the bare necessities of life.

    People will fight for these neccesities

    400 - 600k for a house in Portmarnock is nowhere near a bare necessity of life.


  • #93
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
    I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?


  • #94
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    When did access to a decent home become such a privilege? The options in this country are beginning to look alot like Victorian times. By some strange miracle of economics, we have fewer houses to buy after an economic crash that has hammered so many families around the country. If anything you'd think the price of a house would go down, not up. We have Vulture funds buying up debt and 'cashing in' on peoples misery. If they can do this and still make a profit just how badly overpriced were these mortgages in the first place? Where are the houses built by the State to offset the shortcomings in the housing market?

    SD


  • #95
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,951 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    One thing for sure, if I was one of these idiots sleeping in my car for 2 nights, I wouldn't be courting publicity.

    Then again, the current generation love their 15mins of fame, no matter how daft they look.


  • #96
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    TBH they may have just confused them with doggers at Dollymount.


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  • #97
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    StudentDad wrote: »
    When did access to a decent home become such a privilege?

    The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
    The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.


  • #98
    Cameo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭Cameo


    I genuinely don't remember McWilliams being laughed at when he predicted the crash - not saying it didn't happen, I just can't remember it.

    There were plenty who didn't want to admit it couldn't last (likely knowing deep down that it couldn't) but plenty who knew it couldn't last and didn't behave stupidly.

    I don't get this smug, self flagellating stuff like "we'll never learn" and "the Irish are a joke" and "the Irish have short memories" - from Irish people. Speak for yourselves there buddies.


  • #99
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
    I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?

    yes they are, sit back and watch!

    sadly i think its gonna take a few more serious crashes before we truly start changing things. very frustrating


  • #100
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Cameo wrote: »
    I genuinely don't remember McWilliams being laughed at when he predicted the crash - not saying it didn't happen, I just can't remember it.

    There were plenty who didn't want to admit it couldn't last (likely knowing deep down that it couldn't) but plenty who knew it couldn't last and didn't behave stupidly.

    I don't get this smug, self flagellating stuff like "we'll never learn" and "the Irish are a joke" and "the Irish have short memories" - from Irish people. Speak for yourselves there buddies.

    hmmmm maybe the 'suicide' speech was directed at people like him?;)


  • #101
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    StudentDad wrote: »
    When did access to a decent home become such a privilege? The options in this country are beginning to look alot like Victorian times. By some strange miracle of economics, we have fewer houses to buy after an economic crash that has hammered so many families around the country. If anything you'd think the price of a house would go down, not up. We have Vulture funds buying up debt and 'cashing in' on peoples misery. If they can do this and still make a profit just how badly overpriced were these mortgages in the first place? Where are the houses built by the State to offset the shortcomings in the housing market?

    SD

    The government made a decision to push house prices up. Everything that have done - including first time buyer grants are designed to do exactly that.


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  • #102
    Ayuntamiento
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Ayuntamiento


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
    I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?

    Most ordinary people are busy getting on with the various stages of their lives and aren't analyzing financial markets or trying to predict an economic crash.

    What real options do people have aside from buying their own home? Renting is horrendous- expensive and with zero stability. And when you end your working days, where will you live? Pensions won't be worth much.

    People want to have kids, pets, real lives, etc. That's why they buy. If you can afford the mortgage and the property will meet your needs long-term, it's probably the best financial decision you can make.


  • #103
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ayuntamiento wrote: »
    Most ordinary people are busy getting on with the various stages of their lives and aren't analyzing financial markets or trying to predict an economic crash.

    i ll be messing around with the minsky software soon, i ll let everybody know if i spot anything:D


  • #104
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again.
    I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?
    Bah.

    He's just another one on the sidelines cribbin' and moanin', in fact I don't know how people like him don't just commit suicide.


  • #105
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
    The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.

    + ∞

    And when did living in working class areas fall out of vogue with working class people? I'm closer to town, around the same floor space as the three bed and around half the bloody price as that new development.

    Absolute madness.


  • #106
    Dirty Dingus McGee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Dirty Dingus McGee


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
    The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.

    Owning a home should be a standard part of life and not some sort of luxury .It isn't affordable for a large amount of people or else they face a massive commute for your whole life.I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting some sort of affordable house and not being crippled with a long commute for your whole life.I don't think most people are looking for the sort of house you described above.


  • #107
    TheRiverman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,041 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Cameo wrote: »
    I genuinely don't remember McWilliams being laughed at when he predicted the crash - not saying it didn't happen, I just can't remember it.

    There were plenty who didn't want to admit it couldn't last (likely knowing deep down that it couldn't) but plenty who knew it couldn't last and didn't behave stupidly.

    I don't get this smug, self flagellating stuff like "we'll never learn" and "the Irish are a joke" and "the Irish have short memories" - from Irish people. Speak for yourselves there buddies.


    Ireland and the recession[edit]
    In 2003, on RTÉ 1 he argued that the housing boom was nothing but a “confidence trick” foisted on the Irish people by “an unholy alliance of bankers, landowners and a pliant political class” which would collapse resulting “in a generation in negative equity”[6]
    Having predicted the crash, McWilliams sees debt forgiveness and large debt for equity initiatives as a way of reducing personal debts. These ideas are explored extensively in “The Good Room”.


  • #108
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭pablo128


    A 3 car garage with a little house on the side would be enough for me.:pac:


  • #109
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    bluewolf wrote: »
    They must have big deposits

    Yip, I would guess must of these couples are in their mid-30's with around 15 years of work experience behind them. Even with some modest saving it would be very easy for each of them to have 6 figure savings. So not unrealistic for these couples to have at least 200-300k in savings.


  • #110
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Ireland and the recession[edit]
    In 2003, on RTÉ 1 he argued that the housing boom was nothing but a “confidence trick” foisted on the Irish people by “an unholy alliance of bankers, landowners and a pliant political class” which would collapse resulting “in a generation in negative equity”[6]
    Having predicted the crash, McWilliams sees debt forgiveness and large debt for equity initiatives as a way of reducing personal debts. These ideas are explored extensively in “The Good Room”.

    many post-Keynesian economist such as steve keen and michael hudson etc would also advocate for a 'debt jubilee', i suspect we may have no choice but to do this eventually. time will tell i guess


  • #111
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
    The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.

    Again with "the Irish". Buffoonish nonsense.

    Irish people don't want especially big houses, this isn't America. Or Germany. Standard build is 2/3 up and down. Semi detached.

    What this thread is about is the increase in prices of normal houses. Nothing else.


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  • #112
    Ayuntamiento
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Ayuntamiento


    TheRiverman wrote: »
    Ireland and the recession[edit]
    In 2003, on RTÉ 1 he argued that the housing boom was nothing but a “confidence trick” foisted on the Irish people by “an unholy alliance of bankers, landowners and a pliant political class” which would collapse resulting “in a generation in negative equity”[6]
    Having predicted the crash, McWilliams sees debt forgiveness and large debt for equity initiatives as a way of reducing personal debts. These ideas are explored extensively in “The Good Room”.


    I always thought the boom was largely due to a rapidly expanding middle class in this country, fueled by free access to 3rd level education. Most of my friends are doctors/solicitors/accountants and yet few came from backgrounds where their parents even had 3rd level degrees.

    More money chasing the same finite resources causing an overheated market.


  • #113
    StudentDad
    Registered Users Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭StudentDad


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    The problem is when did it not become a privilege. Or at least, the Irish think that it is not a privilege, and that 2500sq ft of dormer with twin garage on an acre should be for everyone.
    The lack of realism, and expectations of far too many, who cannot afford one, that the should be able to afford a house, is just bananas in this country.

    Fascinating, we have a low population density over much of the country. Why everyone has to be crammed into Dublin and the other cities like sardines beggars belief. If I can pay a premium for living in Dublin and live in a shoebox or build something considerably larger away from Dublin for less, I know what I'd do. However, govt policy seems to be to try and cram as many people into urban areas as possible. Where is the public transport network that can facilitate this? Services all seem to be focused on Dublin etc. The children's hosp as an example, why does it have to be in the middle of Dublin? It would function just as well outside of the city and probably cost a whole lot less to build and run.

    SD


  • #114
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    jester77 wrote: »
    Yip, I would guess must of these couples are in their mid-30's with around 15 years of work experience behind them. Even with some modest saving it would be very easy for each of them to have 6 figure savings. So not unrealistic for these couples to have at least 200-300k in savings.

    Unless they were living at home I doubt it.

    Some of the high deposits is people selling houses in dublin though.


  • #115
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,871 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    TheRiverman wrote:
    David McWilliams was being slated here on Boards.ie last night when he was on the Ray D'arcy show.He did make a great point when he said that in Ireland we appear to be forgetting that the horrendous economic crash ever happened and people have an attitude that "it never happened to me and never will"and that is why we are heading back to the same craziness again. I posted last night that back in 2003 McWilliams was laughed at when he predicted the crash.Are people going to laugh at and ignore him again?


    Likewise though there are too many people asking when is the next crash going to happen. We've only ever had one crash here . There was a world crash. Not taking blame from ff but it was worldwide. Too many people in this country are afraid that the sky is falling


  • #116
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Unless they were living at home I doubt it.

    Some of the high deposits is people selling houses in dublin though.

    Another option would be stuck in apartments which they either managed to shift or didn't and rented out. The tracker rates would have meant it was very easy to save. However I think you're right that there would be a lot of trading up going on.


  • #117
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Ayuntamiento wrote: »
    I always thought the boom was largely due to a rapidly expanding middle class in this country, fueled by free access to 3rd level education. Most of my friends are doctors/solicitors/accountants and yet few came from backgrounds where their parents even had 3rd level degrees.

    More money chasing the same finite resources causing an overheated market.

    not at all, debt fueled asset bubble, largely caused by flawed economic theories and principles such as neoliberalism and free market economics etc and no, not much has changed since the crash. round and round we go!


  • #118
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Some might say, it's good for the economy!

    Be sure to correct them about that.


  • #119
    jester77
    Registered Users Posts: 11,262 ✭✭✭✭jester77


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    Unless they were living at home I doubt it.

    Some of the high deposits is people selling houses in dublin though.

    Just do the maths, if you only saved 500 a month, then after 15 years you have 90k, and that is before you take whatever way you have invested it. Anyone on a semi-decent salary can easily put away at least 500 a month


  • #120
    Adelynn Vast Sunset
    Posts: 0 ✭ Adelynn Vast Sunset


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    many post-Keynesian economist such as steve keen and michael hudson etc would also advocate for a 'debt jubilee', i suspect we may have no choice but to do this eventually. time will tell i guess
    Unfortunately, with things "doing so well" at the moment, there is no need for a debt jubilee for those who live in the right places. If you're in arrears in a house in that the market could easily sell on, you're at a high risk of being repossessed and be left with the outstanding debt while the bank sells your home AND sell a mortgage in the deal.

    OTOH, If you live in the back of beyond in negative equity and arrears, chances are that for the time being you'll be left alone as the house is worthless to the bank as no one else wants to live there.


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  • #121
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    StudentDad wrote: »
    Fascinating, we have a low population density over much of the country. Why everyone has to be crammed into Dublin and the other cities like sardines beggars belief. ..... However, govt policy seems to be to try and cram as many people into urban areas as possible.

    They tried to move people away from Dublin in some of the public sector organisations and it was a complete disaster. Do you not remember that? People want to live and work in the major cities, Dublin in particular.


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