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Arcadia group collapse.

245678

Comments

  • #32
    46 Long
    Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭46 Long


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

    Does your climate change zealotry allow you to even consider the 13,000 jobs at risk because of this? Each one of them with a family to support, mortgage/rent to pay and food to put on the table.


  • #33
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,661 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    seamus wrote: »
    This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

    Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

    Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world. Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary. And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing.

    It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.

    And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.

    Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out.

    -- Douglas Adams


  • #34
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    46 Long wrote: »
    Does your climate change zealotry allow you to even consider the 13,000 jobs at risk because of this? Each one of them with a family to support, mortgage/rent to pay and food to put on the table.

    Feel bad for the Irish people working in these outlets myself but at the same time Irish people would do well to wise up to the fact you can no longer rely on foreign companies to provide you with any sort of security of employment. These corporate entities are only here to get what they can get in the short term for their shareholders. This has been the case and an example for the last 30 years. You tie your star to these hoor's wagons, expect the end result. Its been going on for the last 30 years.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #35
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    This is a big disaster for retail. Dorothy Perkins, Top Man, Burton, Evans, Wallis, TopShop.
    How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

    The go to street to get your phone or shoes fixed. :)
    Are any of them on grafton street.

    The group has been on life support for years.


  • #36
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,076 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    L1011 wrote: »
    Philip Green is still the owner.

    I recall when he made this comment...
    "He can't read English. Mind you, he is a ****ing Irishman."

    https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/mar/05/2


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  • #37
    kravmaga
    Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭kravmaga


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    This is a big disaster for retail. Dorothy Perkins, Top Man, Burton, Evans, Wallis, TopShop.
    How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

    The go to street to get your phone or shoes fixed. :)

    All sh1t shops, poor choice, never bought in any of them, wont be missed.

    Get some Irish owned and run shops in there place.

    Arcadia group have been in trouble for a long time.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    Feel bad for the Irish people working in these outlets myself but at the same time Irish people would do well to wise up to the fact you can no longer rely on foreign companies to provide you with any sort of security of employment. These corporate entities are only here to get what they can get in the short term for their shareholders. This has been the case and an example for the last 30 years. You tie your star to these hoor's wagons, expect the end result. Its been going on for the last 30 years.

    As compared to Dunnes who are known for treating their staff like sh1t?


  • #39
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    As compared to Dunnes who are known for treating their staff like sh1t?

    Well you had Dell computers who pulled out of here in the early 00's, there are countless other examples of this happening or have happened. It's not a case of companies 'treating their staff like $hit', Irish ones can do that too, but if you are employed by a corporate entity that is interested with nothing but maximum profits for their worldwide 'shareholders' you better do your homework and realise that is the end game of these companies, and that is all they care about. You get in bed with these f**kers that will inevitably be the end result.
    Plenty more of this $hit is coming in the pipeline for people that think they are secure in the likes of the big pharma/tech companies too.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #40
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

    :)
    IMO that happened a long time ago.


  • #41
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,773 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Atlantic Dawn wrote: »
    I recall when he made this comment...


    https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/mar/05/2

    A horrible individual. A bully and a nasty piece of work.


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  • #42
    B.A._Baracus
    Registered Users Posts: 11,170 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.
    seamus wrote: »
    This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

    Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

    I do agree that how many clothing shops do we need. But a lot of things in this world aren't so black and white sadly.

    Like let's be honest... These clothings shops charge some mark up for what they really cost to produce in the likes of India. Cents.
    But I remember doing a fas course with an Indian lad once and he told us all about how while the sweat shops were terrible they gave people a great wage in the area. Sure they're unsafe but they let people provide for their family.

    Then these shops give business to shipping companies by bringing this overly marked up garbage to our stores.
    Then we pay some poor sod 10 euro an hour to put it on a shelf. But these jobs add to our economy. So our way of life is better than the likes of India. As more are paying tax (I hate tax as it feels like the taxman is shaking us upside down for pennies but that's life)

    It's mad.


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    Well you had Dell computers who pulled out of here in the early 00's, there are countless other examples of this happening or have happened. It's not a case of companies 'treating their staff like $hit', Irish ones can do that too, but if you are employed by a corporate entity that is interested with nothing but maximum profits for their worldwide 'shareholders' you better do your homework and realise that is the end game of these companies, and that is all they care about. You get in bed with these f**kers that will inevitably be the end result.
    Plenty more of this $hit is coming in the pipeline for people that think they are secure in the likes of the big pharma/tech companies too.

    I've worked for plenty of multinationals and they are as secure to work for as any Irish software/tech company that I've worked for. Working with a multinational has added benefit of better wages and conditions. Other benefits include no one acting like they did you a favor by giving you a job, and no family members and friends being hired for positions that they haven't a fu*king clue about doing and having everyone else do their job for them.


  • #44
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    I've worked for plenty of multinationals and they are as secure to work for as any Irish software/tech company that I've worked for. Working with a multinational has added benefit of better wages and conditions. Other benefits include no one acting like they did you a favor by giving you a job, and no family members and friends being hired for positions that they haven't a fu*king clue about doing and having everyone else do their job for them.

    That's great for you man. Pity about the 13,000 in Arcadia though isn't it?
    Hope your luck continues. I genuinely mean it too.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #45
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

    Well, Im willing to come out at this early stage and say Im going to continue wearing clothes.


  • #46
    46 Long
    Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭46 Long


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Well, Im willing to come out at this early stage and say Im going to continue wearing clothes.

    hqdefault.jpg


  • #47
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Ok, Im willing to meet people half way on this. Half the population should stop wearing clothes. I vote it should be women


  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    That's great for you man. Pity about the 13,000 in Arcadia though isn't it?
    Hope your luck continues. I genuinely mean it too.

    It is terrible for them, especially those in the U.K. whose welfare system means your effectively fu*ked and it's an English company letting them go.
    For the 300 odd Irish employees, I hope that they get another job soon, but when I did retail security most of their employees especially in topshop were part time 3rd level students and worked there for beer money and the fact that they were better to work for than Dunnes, I don't think that has changed much in the last 20 years.
    Those who were in management positions with them might find it harder to get similar positions, especially given how retail and how people shop is changing over the last few years.


  • #49
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    It is terrible for them, especially those in the U.K. whose welfare system means your effectively fu*ked and it's an English company letting them go.
    For the 300 odd Irish employees, I hope that they get another job soon, but when I did retail security most of their employees especially in topshop were part time 3rd level students and worked there for beer money and the fact that they were better to work for than Dunnes, I don't think that has changed much in the last 20 years.
    Those who were in management positions with them might find it harder to get similar positions, especially given how retail and how people shop is changing over the last few years.

    There is going to be far more than 300 people let go from here. These stores just don't operate on Grafton St, they have outlets throughout the island. It's not a 'english company' letting them go though either, these companies trade through England but the vast majority of their shareholders are from Asia. The financials are based in London but the companies and their base conglomerates are all based in where their sweatshop $hithouses are based, which is in Asia and beyond. The profits are siphoned off in London and a percentage goes back afterwards, this is the reality of multinational corporate existence. Ireland would do well to learn from it and keep the f**k away from it. The exact same thing is going to happen in a few years when the tech/pharma companies can no longer wrangle the tax breaks they currently receive from our revenue and they will ship off somewhere else they have already their eyes on.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    There is going to be far more than 300 people let go from here. These stores just don't operate on Grafton St, they have outlets throughout the island. It's not a 'english company' letting them go though either, these companies trade through England but the vast majority of their shareholders are from Asia. The financials are based in London but the companies and their base conglomerates are all based in where their sweatshop $hithouses are based, which is in Asia and beyond. The profits are siphoned off in London and a percentage goes back afterwards, this is the reality of multinational corporate existence. Ireland would do well to learn fro it and keep the f**k away from it.

    324 Irish employees in 2018, down from 356 in 2017.
    http://www.top1000.ie/arcadia

    Going by your logic about shareholders every company including Irish ones are stateless, especially given that Dunnes are also a multinational company.

    As for the rest of your post, where do you think any Irish retailer sources their products other than the same places in Asia.


  • #51
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    324 Irish employees in 2018, down from 356 in 2017.
    http://www.top1000.ie/arcadia

    Going by your logic about shareholders every company including Irish ones are stateless, especially given that Dunnes are also a multinational company.

    As for the rest of your post, where do you think any Irish retailer sources their products other than the same places in Asia.

    Looks like they were already getting rid of Irish employees before all this 'covid' noise raired its head anyways, so looks like the trajectory worked out for them well. I'm actually surprised there was only that amount considering their presence on this island.

    What Irish products are you talking about? Because the only ones I'm interested and care about are the ones we actually make for ourselves.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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  • #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    Looks like they were already getting rid of Irish employees before all this 'covid' noise raired its head anyways, so looks like the trajectory worked out for them well. I'm actually surprised there was only that amount considering their presence on this island.

    What Irish products are you talking about? Because the only ones I'm interested and care about are the ones we actually make for ourselves.

    You do realise that the Acadia group is a plc and doesn't have shareholders don't you?

    You do realise that they have already sold off some brands that they owned that accounts for the difference in staff numbers between 2017 & 2018?

    You do know that no Irish retailer such as Dunnes or even the smallest independent retailer in your locality actually purchases and sells clothing, footwear etc made in Ireland?


  • #53
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You do realise that the Acadia group is a plc and doesn't have shareholders don't you?


    All companies have shareholders, it may be one person but the core of company registration is recording share capital and shareholders.

    However, specifically a Plc is a public limited company meaning multiple shareholders and tradeable shares. Arcadia are an unlisted Plc but they absolutely do have shareholders.


  • #54
    un5byh7sqpd2x0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭un5byh7sqpd2x0


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You do realise that the Acadia group is a plc and doesn't have shareholders don't you?

    You may go back and look at your company formation book again. PLCs have _the most_ shareholders out of all the types of companies. Public Limited Company. All stock exchange listed companies, for example, are by definition PLCs. :rolleyes:
    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You do know that no Irish retailer such as Dunnes or even the smallest independent retailer in your locality actually purchases and sells clothing, footwear etc made in Ireland?

    Another broad statement that's absolute bollocks.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    All companies have shareholders, it may be one person

    However, specifically a Plc is a public limited company meaning multiple shareholders and tradeable shares. Arcadia are an unlisted Plc but they absolutely do have shareholders.

    Apologies for the mistake, and duly noted but not the type that buried was claiming as would be seen re a stock exchange type, as being the cause of their woes.


  • #56
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    You do realise that the Acadia group is a plc and doesn't have shareholders don't you?

    You do realise that they have already sold off some brands that they owned that accounts for the difference in staff numbers between 2017 & 2018?

    You do know that no Irish retailer such as Dunnes or even the smallest independent retailer in your locality actually purchases and sells clothing made in Ireland?

    A PLC is owned by its shareholders Dub, that could also mean it has one single shareholder but you can bet your arse it has one. That's how the f**king thing exists in the first place.

    You're mad on Dunnes and clothes. I couldn't give a monkeys twat about either. I don't go to Dunnes and I have enough clothes. What matters to me is food and Ireland makes enough for the world eight times over.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    buried wrote: »
    A PLC is owned by its shareholders Dub, that could also mean it has one single shareholder but you can bet your arse it has one. That's how the f**king thing exists in the first place.

    You're mad on Dunnes and clothes. I couldn't give a monkeys twat about either. I don't go to Dunnes and I have enough clothes. What matters to me is food and Ireland makes enough for the world eight times over.

    What has food got to do with the Acadia group and the thread?
    Are we going on a rant about spaghetti soon?


  • #58
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    I actually like the Dorothy Perkins and Miss Selfridge clothing ranges. Decent enough quality and prices but the dog on the street could predict their demise. They don't (in my opinion) seem to have perfected their online shopping presence. Very same ol', same ol' sites without mass appeal.

    I'd say the likes of Next, River Island and New Look will be in the same boat soon. None of their stores/sites are offering a great shopping experience either. Tis like they've given up already tbh.

    Online presence is one thing but their stores are just a pretentious and overpriced and less chaotic version of Pennys. Worked well for them until Brexit, the Pandemic etc.,etc.,

    People will above all vote with their pockets and during these uncertain times Pennys sales strategy seem to have it licked for the masses. Too massive for online sales and cheap enough for mass footfall in their stores. Simple when you think about it.


  • #59
    buried
    Registered Users Posts: 9,661 ✭✭✭buried


    DubInMeath wrote: »
    What has food got to do with the Acadia group and the thread?

    If you want to live in your own community and hope it thrives, then base your whole effort into what your community can make for itself and support it. Not clothes made in the back end of Bangladesh for 2 cents then sold for 20 euros or anything else hoofed to make a profit for a entity that doesn't give a $hit about your own community or well-being.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Luella Flabby Festival wrote: »

    Another broad statement that's absolute bollocks.

    Really what jeans, shirts etc do they sell that are made in Ireland?


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  • #61
    Atlantic Dawn
    Registered Users Posts: 81,076 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    buried wrote: »
    If you want to live in your own community and hope it thrives, then base your whole effort into what your community can make for itself and support it. Not clothes made in the back end of Bangladesh for 2 cents then sold for 20 euros or anything else hoofed to make a profit for a entity that doesn't give a $hit about your own community or well-being.


    Realistically in Ireland if a jumper was to be handmade and you were to pay minumum wage to a highly skilled person it would need to retail for circa €150, very few willing to pay anywhere near this.


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