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DNA Analysis

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    pinkypinky wrote: »
    Definitely. And the number of centimorgans are higher there for the same match as on other sites. I think they count tiny segments.

    Yes, I have what I think are 3 coinciding matches among my high figures. A MyHeritage match of 52.6 cM is an Ancestry match of 41, and a MyHeritage match of 61.0 is an Ancestry match of 32. The third might be odder: a Gedmatch of 71.1 is an Ancestry match of 49. Do these seem plausible? I haven't succeeded in contacting any of these three: the only one where I can guess where the connection is didn't reply.


  • Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭Mollymoo19


    Ancestry also evaluates DNA segments and removes those they consider too common in a population, i.e. likely to be identical by chance. Now they tell you how much they have removed. Where you see

    Predicted relationship: Close Family–1st Cousin
    Shared DNA: XXX cM across X segments - click on the link here, and it will show the 'unweighted shared DNA'.

    Maybe this is the issue,
    Though, while I think the MyHeritage tools are the best, I do have shared segments of up to 30cM on MyH that are not shared with either of my parents.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Mollymoo19 wrote: »
    Ancestry also evaluates DNA segments and removes those they consider too common in a population, i.e. likely to be identical by chance. Now they tell you how much they have removed. Where you see

    Predicted relationship: Close Family–1st Cousin
    Shared DNA: XXX cM across X segments - click on the link here, and it will show the 'unweighted shared DNA'.

    Maybe this is the issue,
    Though, while I think the MyHeritage tools are the best, I do have shared segments of up to 30cM on MyH that are not shared with either of my parents.

    Thanks for the above but still find it hard to get my head around some of this DNA stuff.

    Taking your explanation looked at 3rd cousin match on Ancestry.He matches 193cM across 8 DNA segments with unweighted shared amount at 193cM and longest segment at 68cM.
    According to Ancestry estimate that amount would be 2nd cousin etc 66% of the time,2nd cousin once removed etc 22% and 3rd cousin 2% of the time.
    For such a small percentage chance the header shows him as predicted 3rd/4th cousin.
    Understand that amounts vary and that it(relationship degree not actual DNA testing)is not an exact science as of yet but still wonder.Do they take into account shared ancestor etc for the predicted relationship or wonder if it soley based on DNA ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    Mollymoo19 wrote: »
    Ancestry also evaluates DNA segments and removes those they consider too common in a population, i.e. likely to be identical by chance. Now they tell you how much they have removed. Where you see

    Predicted relationship: Close Family–1st Cousin
    Shared DNA: XXX cM across X segments - click on the link here, and it will show the 'unweighted shared DNA'.

    That's interesting, but it still doesn't equate to the MyHeritage figures:
    Ancestry 32, Ancestry Unweighted 37, MyHeritage 61.0
    Ancestry 41, Ancestry Unweighted 44, MyHeritage 52.6
    Ancestry 49, Ancestry Unweighted 62, Gedmatch 71.1


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Earnest wrote: »
    Yes, I have what I think are 3 coinciding matches among my high figures. A MyHeritage match of 52.6 cM is an Ancestry match of 41, and a MyHeritage match of 61.0 is an Ancestry match of 32. The third might be odder: a Gedmatch of 71.1 is an Ancestry match of 49. Do these seem plausible? I haven't succeeded in contacting any of these three: the only one where I can guess where the connection is didn't reply.

    Just checked a few known DNA matches and shared amounts across a few sites.

    My test was with Ancestry and uploaded it to all the other sites.

    First one is 3rd cousin.
    On Ancestry we share 193cM across 8 segments.Unweighted is 193cM and longest is 68cM
    My Heritage says 221.6cM and 8 segments.Largest segment is 68.4cM
    FTDNA says 247cM ;longest block is 65
    Gedmatch says 226.5cM largest segment is 71.8
    His test like mine(apart from FTDNA) was done with Ancestry and uploaded to other sites.

    His sister(obv. 3rd cousin again)
    Ancestry 32cM across 4 segments.Unweighted is 51cM and longest is 22cM
    My Heritage 66.5 across 5 segments.Largest segment is 26.8cM.
    FTDNA 105cM longest block is 24
    Gedmatch says 51.7 ;largest segment is 26.5
    Again hers (apart from FTDNA) done with Ancestry and uploaded to other sites.

    Another known 3rd cousin.
    Ancestry gives 57.5 across 3 segments.Unweighted is 73cM and longest 27cM
    My Heritage 82.7cM across 5 segments.27.7 is largest segment
    Gedmatch says 83.1cM ;largest segment is 30.3
    Test on Ancestry and uploaded to other sites.

    Daughter of 3rd cousin.
    Ancestry gives 37cM across 2 segments.Unweighted is 53cM and longest is 32cM.
    My Heritage its 56.3 across 2 segments.32.5 largest segment.
    FTDNA its 57.2cM with longest block 32cM
    Gedmatch gives 55.2cM ;largest segment is 31.5


    Last one is unknown relative.
    Again test on Ancestry and uploaded to other sites.
    Ancestry gives 44cM across 2 segments.Unweighted is 70cM and longest is 42cM
    My Heritage gives 45.1cM across 2 segments.Largest segment 45.1cM
    Gedmatch gives 66.2cM with largest segment 33.2cM

    All above are on my fathers side and would assume some distant inter marriage etc as all his family including the above's ancestors were from within 5 miles or less as the crow flies from where we still live.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    Got me Ancestry results back.. a bit disappointed tbh.
    19 4th-6th cousins, with 39cM being the highest...
    3000 4th-8th cousins
    Had hoped to get some better matches closer to home, but DNA ancestry isn't that popular in Germany.

    20% Norwegean - yeah right. Not a scandinavian in sight anywhere

    Most intriguing thing is half of those 19 matches are in the US.
    I have one known relative emigrating to the US in 1850..

    what other DNA databases might be worth uploading the results to..


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭BottleOfSmoke


    Got me Ancestry results back.. a bit disappointed tbh.
    19 4th-6th cousins, with 39cM being the highest...
    3000 4th-8th cousins
    Had hoped to get some better matches closer to home, but DNA ancestry isn't that popular in Germany.

    20% Norwegean - yeah right. Not a scandinavian in sight anywhere

    Most intriguing thing is half of those 19 matches are in the US.
    I have one known relative emigrating to the US in 1850..

    what other DNA databases might be worth uploading the results to..

    By sheer numbers of customers, Ancestry will have more volume. But with luck, you may get a closer match elsewhere. These are reputable sites with a free upload from Ancestry:
    MyHeritage is quite popular with Europeans.
    FamilyTreeDNA will skew North American but you may get lucky.
    GEDmatch seems to have a mix of North American and Europe
    LivingDNA may be good for English heritage

    One known relative emigrating to the US seems really low, given historical tendencies! I would say 80% of my 4th cousins are U.S.


  • Registered Users Posts: 551 ✭✭✭A New earth


    Yes it is a bit disappointing that you didn't get a couple of closer cousins.

    Gedmatch is the main one to upload to as its free unless you want to go to extra facilities but you don't need them at the beginning anyway.

    Myheritage would be next and has a good Irish following. Again its free but you may wish to pay a fee if it turns up close matches and you want to see their family trees etc.

    FTDNA can be quite good too, again free but there is a small fee for more facilities. Stick it on LivingDNA too but I never found much there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭whosedaddy?


    Thanks for the suggestions.
    There could have been more relatives that emigrated, so excited to find out. On the other hand of the one I know off, ive hit dead ends for two of the children...
    Still plenty to explore, and hopefully the other databases will unearth some closer relatives.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    Putting this here because don't know where else is suitable - Mods feel free to move if required
    It's an interesting and entertaining story about the DNA analysis on a group of ancient bodies found in Tibet.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    Hi Everyone - I just have a quick question in relation to Y-DNA!
    My Haplogroup is R-M269.
    Is it conclusive to say that my third cousin [Male - related through direct paternal ancestors) - would also have the same haplogroup?!
    He isn't tested on Y-DNA - but we have confirmed our connection through records, old family history notes, and ancestry DNA.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Well, it should be the same, but you can't rule out a gap in the chain where there was an NPE.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭kanadams123


    Thinks Pinkypinky - In this case I am quite certain there is no case of NPE - especially with ancestry dna confirming we are related - but of course it can't be ruled out!!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    You can use an Ancestry export to create a haplogroup guess of sorts, not as accurate as the specific test

    https://ytree.morleydna.com/extractFromAutosomal


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    .......My Haplogroup is R-M269.
    Is it conclusive to say that my third cousin [Male - related through direct paternal ancestors) - would also have the same haplogroup?!
    ..........
    It would be inconclusive. About 85% of Irishmen are RM 269, and over 90 in Wales and 70% in Scotland.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mick Tator wrote: »
    It would be inconclusive. About 85% of Irishmen are RM 269, and over 90 in Wales and 70% in Scotland.

    Well, them not being the same group could be conclusive, in the opposite way.


    I'm apparently M222 (which is a subgroup of M269 rather than distinct, I think?), from that partially guessed analysis I linked to; which would be a bit odd as my male line tracing goes back to the Midlands, albeit with a NW surname - my actual NW ancestry is all female married in to that line. I have multiple DNA matches traced to that last known Y-line male, albeit no actual Y-line ones cause it appears the male line has heavily died out.

    Should probably do a proper test to see if it still gives me M222.


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    L1011 wrote: »
    ........Should probably do a proper test to see if it still gives me M222.
    It would not give you much more in my experience.
    TBH, I’m less than impressed with the current state of DNA as being of any significant use for genealogy. Also, as an ‘early adapter’ I’ve noticed a considerable drop-off in the number of matches being notified. I’ve done Y- tests, started at 37 with FTDNA and progressively upgraded to 111 with zero success, high genetic distance numbers. I refuse to spend more as all encouragement to buy a 'better' test has yielded nothing. I mean, what really would confirmation that I'm 'probably' Z-253 mean?

    On autosomal, I’ve done Ancestry.com and have access to my mother’s test with MyHeritage.com. Success on Ancestry was minimal. Anyone close (i.e. 2nd, 3rd and some 4th cousins) I either knew about, could identify their link or was able to give them info, rather than the reverse.

    MyHeritage results for my mother were rubbish. She has an obvious Irish maiden name and 7/8 g.grandparents have Irish surnames; no surprise that her ethnicity was 100% Irish Scottish Welsh.

    MyHeritage DNA matches can be ‘dumped’ to Excel which is a nice feature, as it’s easy to manipulate the data. Her match count was about 9,800. Two results were a daughter and granddaughter, Three were of the first cousin twice removed - 2nd cousin once removed variety and were easy to identify.
    Sorted by cMs, the blocks were
    >1000 = 2
    201 – 999 = 1
    101 – 200 = 2
    61 – 100 = 0
    51 – 60 =3
    41 – 50 =15
    31 – 40 = 136
    21 – 30 = 1,167
    11 – 20 = 5,385
    8 – 10 = 3075
    Sticking to simple shared DNA, by the 30-40 cMs level one is heading into ‘low confidence’ levels and too far back for most paper trails. That means the nearly 10k matches are realistically reduced to 150, or more unkindly, about 98.5% of the total results are rubbish. For example, despite my mother ‘s DNA being 100% Irish Scottish Welsh, top of her 3rd cousins list is a Hungarian lady whose online tree back several generations has 579 relatives none of which are Irish / Scottish / Welsh.

    Geographically, the results were surprising and indicate the weakness of the database for an average Irish person.

    Ranked numerically,
    USA 4202
    G. Brit 1275
    Ireland 597
    Australia 546
    N.Zea 318 Canada 245 France 66
    Norway 64
    Germany 53
    Sweden 35 More than 2,000

    About 2000 had no country of origin and other results in very low numbers were spread from Bahrain to Ukraine.

    MyHeritage's general genealogical research results for Ireland also are awful and its ‘newspaper’ archive for Ireland consists of about two dozen late 1800’s Journals of the RSAI, and no newspapers.

    It is very easy to get sucked in and waste a lot of money for little result.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    L1011 wrote: »
    Well, them not being the same group could be conclusive, in the opposite way.


    I'm apparently M222 (which is a subgroup of M269 rather than distinct, I think?), from that partially guessed analysis I linked to; which would be a bit odd as my male line tracing goes back to the Midlands, albeit with a NW surname - my actual NW ancestry is all female married in to that line. I have multiple DNA matches traced to that last known Y-line male, albeit no actual Y-line ones cause it appears the male line has heavily died out.

    Should probably do a proper test to see if it still gives me M222.

    So it's worth setting the context. SNP markers such as M269 and M222 mark branches in the Y-Chromosome lineage. All men who carry a specific marker such as 'M222' share a common ancestor with the first man born with the marker.

    These are single point mutations, so in case of M222 there is a mutation at Position 12790481 on the Y-Chromsome.

    Men who are M222+ have a molecule of Adenine at this position, everyone else has a molecule of Guanine

    So basically a G to A mutation occurred.

    M269 is major branch of Haplogroup R1b in western Eurasia. Nearly all R1b men in Western Eurasia are M269+, it probably arose on order of of 10-15k years ago.

    M222 marks a specific sub-branch. Here is a quite dated image from presentation given back in 2013 by Dr. Michael Hammer. Main reason why it's dated is since then we have ancient DNA (which points to M269 been in Steppe) and of course we've subdivided the tree with thousands of new SNP mutations having been discovered.

    M269-Hammer-2013.png

    The SNP mutation 'cookie trail' as of today for M222 looks like the following:

    R-M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF49/S474 > Z2980 > Z2976 > DF23 > Z2961 > Z2956 > M222

    In above case each mutation marks a sub-branch in common lineage.

    Here is a simplified diagram from Busby's paper on M269 (2011 -- Royal Society)
    rspb20111044f01.jpg

    Note L21 which I've bolded above and which is in Hammer's map. This SNP is probably found in 70% of all men living in Ireland today. This implies at most simple level that 70% of male population share a common direct line ancestor sometime during the transition from the Neolithic to the Copper/Bronze ages. (L21 is calculated to have arisen around 4,500 years ago)

    Anyways R-M222 in an Irish context is heavily linked with surnames of Connacht/NW and central Midlands origins.

    Here's an old map from a now defunct testing company but they did release this showing distrubution of origins for M222+ men in their testing database.

    m222_spread.png

    I would wager the 18% for Leinster is heavily biased towards Dublin and Northern Leinster (the old province of Meath). In Busby's paper (on small sample set) he had 25% of sample in Virginia in Cavan come back as M222+.

    Obviously the (in)famous 2006 study by Trinity College proposed that the Y-Chromosome STR haplogroup that is linked to M222+ was associated with the historical Uí Néill and Connachta (Uí Briúin, Uí Fiachra etc.). We do know for example that the O'Conor Don lineage is confirmed as R-M222

    If you've done STR testing with FamilytreeDNA please consider joining the Ireland yDNA Project:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ireland-heritage

    If you do join drop me a line with your kit number and I can run a Genetic Distance report and see if you fall into any specific branch of M222. However generally it's recommended given the huge size of M222 lineage for men in it to do BigY testing.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Mick Tator wrote: »
    It would not give you much more in my experience.
    TBH, I’m less than impressed with the current state of DNA as being of any significant use for genealogy.

    Well, it's all very dependent on who is in the database that might match. I've made some huge leaps in my genealogy through Ancestry matches. Also some good progress with FTDNA autosomal matches.

    No progress whatsoever with MtDNA or YDNA - I tested a selection of male line cousins for particular surnames, mostly as a long game to capture their DNA for when this science progresses. All my YDNAs came by RM269 - different families but all Irish.

    My Heritage matches have had limited success. I agree with your analysis of their records. Their Theories of Relativity, which just updated this week: I have 7, 4 are correct and 3 are total rubbish, which seem to be based solely on some ancestor having the same years of birth and death as someone similarly but not exactly named in another tree.

    A couple of new connections through 23andme - find people very bad at replying there.

    2 connections in LivingDNA - a sibling pair, but it was very significant because they were second cousins of my Dad's that I'd actually been looking for.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭VirginiaB


    The above messages are very helpful. Could someone shed any light on my brother's Y-DNA test? We are both entirely Irish with some Scottish according to Ancestry's latest ethnicity. But our great-grandfather was from Asturias on the north coast of Spain. My brother's Y-DNA goes of course to our father-grandfather-great-grandfather and beyond to Asturias. We used to have 'Iberian' DNA on Ancestry but they don't test in Spain so the database is small, seemingly invisible on Ancestry.

    My brother is R-M269 (Family Tree) and the sub-group R-P312 (Living DNA). Can anyone explain this at all? What is R-P312.

    Asturias is cut off from the rest of Spain by high mountains. It is on the Bay of Biscay/Cantabrian Sea, due south from Dublin. It was settled by the Celts among others. They have their own bagpipes etc. I expect some significant genetic variance from the rest of Spain.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    P312 us very broad. Have a look at the tree above, three big groups fall under it. DF27 which is found a lot in Spain falls under it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭srmf5


    Some people are luckier with Y-DNA testing than others. My dad has 46 Big Y matches (40 of which belong to the same surname group) and 23 Y-111 matches. I wouldn't automatically disregard high genetic distance matches at Y-111. My dad has a match at a genetic distance of 10 at Y-111 and we share a common ancestor from around the 1600s. The match is an NPE so he doesn't share my dad's surname. My dad's closest match is a genetic distance of 3 at Y-111 and my dad only has one private variant. Their common ancestor is thought to have been born in the 1700s. Y-DNA has identified what surname group we belong to. The family originally lived in Connacht but we're not M222+. This is my dad's lineage from Y-DNA testing:

    R-M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312/S116 > Z290 > L21/S145 > DF13 > Z39589 > DF49/S474 > Z2980 > Z2976 > DF23 > Z2961 > Z2956 > ZP75 > ZP77 > FGC6550 > BY3442 > BY3437 > BY3439 > BY3440 > Y160102

    BY3437 is the common SNP of the surname group. Z2961 is the last SNP shared with M222. As you can see my dad's terminal SNP and the SNP representing the surname group are much further downstream than M269 and Z2961.

    In terms of autosomal testing, none of the DNA matches have helped me get my tree further back in time but I have found new cousins and found out what happened to siblings of ancestors. I met a second cousin of my dad we had never known about who was adopted. Yes, a lot of DNA matches can never be confirmed. However, not all matches can be dismissed as useless just because they're below a certain cM. I have matches that I share 6 cM with who I have a confirmed connection to. I only share 17 cM with a known 3rd cousin. Then there are matches sharing 30 cM who have extensive trees but I can't confirm the link.

    I don't find it surprising that Ireland has lower numbers. Naturally more people in the US will have an interest in their ancestry and their origins. Ireland has had lots of emigrants to the US and Britain so we will get lots of matches there. Ireland also has a much smaller population than the US and Britain so there will be larger numbers of testers there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 398 ✭✭VirginiaB


    Thanks very much. I' m sorry I missed that when I looked at the tree earlier.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    srmf5 wrote: »
    However, not all matches can be dismissed as useless just because they're below a certain cM. I have matches that I share 6 cM with who I have a confirmed connection to. I only share 17 cM with a known 3rd cousin. Then there are matches sharing 30 cM who have extensive trees but I can't confirm the link.

    I don't find it surprising that Ireland has lower numbers. Naturally more people in the US will have an interest in their ancestry and their origins. Ireland has had lots of emigrants to the US and Britain so we will get lots of matches there. Ireland also has a much smaller population than the US and Britain so there will be larger numbers of testers there.

    Fully agree with this - while the majority of small matches will never be useful, I have been able to confirm a few with records. Notably one with 8cM.

    I've also seen a documented 2nd cousin relationship (for a client) with only 32cM shared, so useful to know that the Shared Centimorgan project stats hold up there.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭silliussoddius


    I've started to notice that MyHeritage DNA is starting to yield a lot of results from Irish people (and Australian). I haven't tested with ancestry yet, is that popular with Irish people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭Earnest


    Mick Tator wrote: »

    ...
    On autosomal, I’ve done Ancestry.com and have access to my mother’s test with MyHeritage.com. Success on Ancestry was minimal. Anyone close (i.e. 2nd, 3rd and some 4th cousins) I either knew about, could identify their link or was able to give them info, rather than the reverse.

    MyHeritage results for my mother were rubbish. She has an obvious Irish maiden name and 7/8 g.grandparents have Irish surnames; no surprise that her ethnicity was 100% Irish Scottish Welsh.

    MyHeritage DNA matches can be ‘dumped’ to Excel which is a nice feature, as it’s easy to manipulate the data. Her match count was about 9,800. Two results were a daughter and granddaughter, Three were of the first cousin twice removed - 2nd cousin once removed variety and were easy to identify.
    Sorted by cMs, the blocks were
    >1000 = 2
    201 – 999 = 1
    101 – 200 = 2
    61 – 100 = 0
    51 – 60 =3
    41 – 50 =15
    31 – 40 = 136
    21 – 30 = 1,167
    11 – 20 = 5,385
    8 – 10 = 3075
    Sticking to simple shared DNA, by the 30-40 cMs level one is heading into ‘low confidence’ levels and too far back for most paper trails. That means the nearly 10k matches are realistically reduced to 150, or more unkindly, about 98.5% of the total results are rubbish. For example, despite my mother ‘s DNA being 100% Irish Scottish Welsh, top of her 3rd cousins list is a Hungarian lady whose online tree back several generations has 579 relatives none of which are Irish / Scottish / Welsh.

    ...

    I think this is too dismissive. Who would expect to be able to trace all their matches?

    Combining Ancestry, MyHeritage, Gedmatch and Geneanet I have 187 matches down to the level of 30.2 cM (only 2 of these on Geneanet). Only a handful of these seem to be duplicates. Only the top three of these were people I already knew of. Through Ancestry Thrulines and its predecessor I have identified 2 of these with another 2 dependent on a presumed relationship circa 1800; plus 9 at a lower level than 30.2 and another 18 that Ancestry have semi-deleted after changing their policy. MyHeritage's Theory of Family Relativity produces two of the top three again plus another 3 that I have verified, and 3 marked Low or Medium Confidence which are false. Both the Geneanet matches are true.

    My criteria for "true" is to assume that people know their grandparents and for me to find the paper trail to those grandparents.

    Yes, I would like to find more (and for more people to supply their family tree), but it's been far from useless.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Perhaps its the different expectations people have when they consider getting a DNA test done.
    Some do it to try and progress their tree further back.More want to expand their tree and maybe follow up a few dead ends.
    Others are seem more interested in the FTDNA approach of ethnicity and tracing migrations etc.

    All the above are those that populate message boards like this and others.

    Problem is that it seems to me a goodly proportion of tests on Ancestry,My Heritage etc are uploaded by people who either got it as a present or an impulse purchase after watching it discussed on TV.
    They seem to feel it will magically produce a fully populated family tree and tell them they are 15% Viking, 45% Irish with a smattering of Spanish ,Turkish and Swiss.
    When they realise that's not possible the interest wanes.
    Easy enough to spot them as they maybe joined in 2019,no attached tree,haven't been active in over a year and never respond to messages.

    I got my done a few years ago after more or less "finishing" my tree.Had it back as far as possible ;tenant farmers and rural labourers in 2 midland counties so 1800 about the limit.
    DNA expanded my tree greatly.Got a few dead ends sorted whilst found a few more DNA match dead ends.
    For my tree it allowed me to find a lot of 3rd/4th/5th cousins in the USA,Canada and Australia ,descended from those who left Ireland c.1850 to 1900.Without DNA matches its unlikely I would have ever found even a few of these as many had little or no knowledge regarding their ancestors prior to arrival .


    Got my wife to do a test about 2 years ago.For various reasons she would have no real idea or her tree beyond her grandparents and it was a serious help in getting her tree up and running.

    As regards tracing all your matches;don't think this would be possible.
    My tree and test are with Ancestry and looking at it while I type I see I have about 40 people "tagged" in my tree from my DNA match list.
    Of the first 100 matches I have 29 of whom I have no idea where they might fit in .Best I have are an idea if paternal or maternal side.These are are people who match me at 30cM to 40Cm level.

    On the other hand have a few matches at 8cM to 10cM level whom I have placed in my tree


  • Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Mick Tator


    Earnest wrote: »
    I think this is too dismissive. Who would expect to be able to trace all their matches?

    Combining Ancestry, MyHeritage, Gedmatch and Geneanet I have 187 matches down to the level of 30.2 cM (only 2 of these on Geneanet). Only a handful of these seem to be duplicates. Only the top three of these were people I already knew of. Through Ancestry Thrulines and its predecessor I have identified 2 of these with another 2 dependent on a presumed relationship circa 1800; plus 9 at a lower level than 30.2 and another 18 that Ancestry have semi-deleted after changing their policy. MyHeritage's Theory of Family Relativity produces two of the top three again plus another 3 that I have verified, and 3 marked Low or Medium Confidence which are false. Both the Geneanet matches are true.

    My criteria for "true" is to assume that people know their grandparents and for me to find the paper trail to those grandparents.

    Yes, I would like to find more (and for more people to supply their family tree), but it's been far from useless.


    That is neither my assertion nor my expectation. The figures I quoted speak for themselves, conveniently 'dumped' from MyHeritage to Excel. I have many matches on Ancestry that I can approximately ‘place’ by using triangulation and if relevant enough I can trace using paper records. I have a very extensive family tree, all a result of paper research. That data, most lines back to c1800 is used to examine the DNA match data, rather that the reverse, as it is better and more comprehensive. DNA is fine for going back perhaps 100 years, but do not expect much more.

    There are two other significant DNA research issues. Firstly, the quality of the match’s tree – how accurate is it? I have a match with another and using genetic distance and names in his tree it is clear that his ancestor Bridget is a sister of my ancestor Mary. He of course has Bridget connected to a wealthy family instead of being the daughter of a day labourer (and many have copied his tree!). Secondly, I believe that the algorithms are not suited to Irish ancestors in Ireland. A recent cousin match with a person of German-Dutch heritage and 632 people of those ethnicities in her tree (and not an O’ or a Mc in sight!) is showing as my 3rd – distant cousin. It certainly isn’t a 3rd cousin, and if distant it is before 1800 unless some untraced ancestor had a fling during the Napoleonic wars!

    Dubhthach’s post above (interesting as always) also bears out part of my argument – most of it is far over the comprehension of the average amateur. He says “However generally it's recommended given the huge size of M222 lineage for men in it to do BigY testing.” Basic BigY starts at about $500 and that does not get you the raw data; to zone in on terminal snips just get out the chequebook again.
    Caveat emptor!


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭BottleOfSmoke


    I've started to notice that MyHeritage DNA is starting to yield a lot of results from Irish people (and Australian). I haven't tested with ancestry yet, is that popular with Irish people?

    Ancestry has the biggest DNA database of all the consumer test companies, although customers skew North American.

    But it's a popular choice with Irish people, I guess due to the television advertising. You haven't seen their adverts? Well, they run on those channels that target the older demographic. I watch Miss Marples and period drama re-runs with my mum, and the Ancestry adverts jostle with cruises and chairlifts :D


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,088 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    FTDNA has a lot of Irish (in Ireland) people mainly because it works out the cheapest.


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