Council Inspection for HAP

guest2018 · 01-10-2019 2:51pm

emeldc wrote: »

That a bit unfair. I didn't build the place or any any of the other 50 that are here and they all complied with building regulations at the time. It's an open plan kitchen come dining room with plenty of ventilation. It's not like anyone is going to smother!

Hi,
I am in very similar situation of renting out an apartment - kitchen/living open high-ceiling (6m) space, no extractor fan to outside. Impossible to build it or it'll look ugly if I put it around the room in the middle of the wall.
There was a HAP inspection that said I have to get the pipes installed and got to the outside, through the wall or through the roof...
I wonder how is your case ended? Did you install a new ventilation or could you manage to get HAP permission with the extractor hood (without installation a new ventilation)?
Thanks

emeldc · 01-10-2019 3:02pm

guest2018 wrote: »

Hi,
I am in very similar situation of renting out an apartment - kitchen/living open high-ceiling (6m) space, no extractor fan to outside. Impossible to build it or it'll look ugly if I put it around the room in the middle of the wall.
There was a HAP inspection that said I have to get the pipes installed and got to the outside, through the wall or through the roof...
I wonder how is your case ended? Did you install a new ventilation or could you manage to get HAP permission with the extractor hood (without installation a new ventilation)?
Thanks

I didn't do anything and they never came back to me on it. Unless you've had any direct dealings with the council, I'd wait until they contact you.
My report didn't arrive by registered post by the way, so.............:rolleyes:

Gumbo · 01-10-2019 3:41pm

emeldc wrote: »

I didn't do anything and they never came back to me on it. Unless you've had any direct dealings with the council, I'd wait until they contact you.
My report didn't arrive by registered post by the way, so.............:rolleyes:

The only risk in not complying is that the Inspection Firm send their reports back to the Council after 6 weeks if they don't get a call back to say the issues are fixed.

It may take some time, but then the Council send work to Limerick (HAP HQ) that the building doesn't comply and the HAP payment may stop out of the blue.

emeldc · 09-10-2019 1:43pm

kceire wrote: »

The only risk in not complying is that the Inspection Firm send their reports back to the Council after 6 weeks if they don't get a call back to say the issues are fixed.

It may take some time, but then the Council send work to Limerick (HAP HQ) that the building doesn't comply and the HAP payment may stop out of the blue.

I've no doubt that they'll probably come back to me on it at some stage. The inspection took place in June '17 and the report was issued in Nov '17. 'Important' reports like these really should be registered otherwise they leave themselves wide open to the LL saying that they never received it as I intend to do. Since the inspection the apartment has had a €10k refurb. To fit a vent to open air would have been both ugly and expensive. It's not going to happen. If and when they they insist that the work has to be carried out, I'll just sell up. They can find their HAP tenant somewhere else to live.

the_syco · 09-10-2019 11:55pm

emeldc wrote: »

To fit a vent to open air would have been both ugly and expensive.

Since it's an apartment, I'd wonder if you'd even be allowed to install said vent, as most apartments state you can't build anything on the external wall?

emeldc · 10-10-2019 8:28am

the_syco wrote: »

Since it's an apartment, I'd wonder if you'd even be allowed to install said vent, as most apartments state you can't build anything on the external wall?

Actually that’s a very good point and one I hadn’t thought of.

Gumbo · 10-10-2019 3:09pm

the_syco wrote: »

Since it's an apartment, I'd wonder if you'd even be allowed to install said vent, as most apartments state you can't build anything on the external wall?

You would have to seek MC approval alright.
Ive seen it done may times though, especially on older blocks. The MC generally done all the apartments at the same time.

the_syco · 14-10-2019 7:49pm

emeldc wrote: »

Actually that’s a very good point and one I hadn’t thought of.

As above, check if the MC will do all of the apartments. If they do, great. If not, get it in writing, and have it for the Council to show that you looked into it, but were denied.

jo2509 · 31-10-2019 9:58am

Well here's a laugh for you guys.

Had our council inspection a few weeks ago, all grand except for one minor issue with the fire blanket in the kitchen which didnt have the necessary 'CE' mark and needed to be replaced.

Fair enough, no big deal. Original fire blanket was bought from a large DIY chain so we had assumed it was of sufficient standard but off we go to look for a fire blanket with a CE mark. None to be found anywhere. Partner is in the electrical trade himself so went to various wholesalers, electrical suppliers etc. nobody had one. Eventually manage to get hold of the guy who did the inspection....

'Oh yeah, that's a typo on the report, it should say BE'.

Right, incompetent but again, we figure look it doesn't have the BE mark regardless so we need to replace it. So buy another one, go down to the property to fit it to the wall. Old fire blanket is on a wall mounted bracket, partner removes it to fit the new one, turns it around and looks at the back and what does he see... oh yes, a BE mark.

I mean you couldnt make this sh*t up. Granted it was only a very minor issue and didn't cost us much money but what's the point of the council doing an inspection if it is going to be a half arsed job?

Gumbo · 31-10-2019 11:32am

jo2509 wrote: »

Well here's a laugh for you guys.

Had our council inspection a few weeks ago, all grand except for one minor issue with the fire blanket in the kitchen which didnt have the necessary 'CE' mark and needed to be replaced.

Fair enough, no big deal. Original fire blanket was bought from a large DIY chain so we had assumed it was of sufficient standard but off we go to look for a fire blanket with a CE mark. None to be found anywhere. Partner is in the electrical trade himself so went to various wholesalers, electrical suppliers etc. nobody had one. Eventually manage to get hold of the guy who did the inspection....

'Oh yeah, that's a typo on the report, it should say BE'.

Right, incompetent but again, we figure look it doesn't have the BE mark regardless so we need to replace it. So buy another one, go down to the property to fit it to the wall. Old fire blanket is on a wall mounted bracket, partner removes it to fit the new one, turns it around and looks at the back and what does he see... oh yes, a BE mark.

I mean you couldnt make this sh*t up. Granted it was only a very minor issue and didn't cost us much money but what's the point of the council doing an inspection if it is going to be a half arsed job?

Really bad alright.
It’s worth noting that the council sub contract out these inspections.

A firm from D15 done mine on behalf of Fingal.
I also had to argue with them over restrictors on high level Velux windows but I held my ground and they came around and accepted it.

emeldc · 31-10-2019 12:00pm

jo2509 wrote: »

Well here's a laugh for you guys.

Had our council inspection a few weeks ago, all grand except for one minor issue with the fire blanket in the kitchen which didnt have the necessary 'CE' mark and needed to be replaced.

You see, there's the problem right there. No one is ever held accountable for fcuk ups. I'd be like a dog with a bone until they reimbursed you for your time and effort and the cost of a bloody fire blanket that you didn't need in the first place.

Rows Grower · 31-10-2019 12:16pm

emeldc wrote: »

You see, there's the problem right there. No one is ever held accountable for fcuk ups. I'd be like a dog with a bone until they reimbursed you for your time and effort and the cost of a bloody fire blanket that you didn't need in the first place.

Everyone makes mistakes dude, that's life.

A fire blanket costs about a tenner and if you or your tenant ever need one it's hard to put a value on it.

ToBeFrank123 · 31-10-2019 12:43pm

I have a HAP tenant and have no problem with rules designed to protect tenants.

But some are the rules are a bit much and in the long term counter productive.

I installed two brand new Carbon Monoxide alarms with a lifespan of 7 years. They failed me on this and said they should be 10 years lifespan.

We should be encouraging HAP landlords not p*ssing them off and making them question if its worth it.

ToBeFrank123 · 31-10-2019 12:46pm

emeldc wrote: »

I've no doubt that they'll probably come back to me on it at some stage. The inspection took place in June '17 and the report was issued in Nov '17. 'Important' reports like these really should be registered otherwise they leave themselves wide open to the LL saying that they never received it as I intend to do. Since the inspection the apartment has had a €10k refurb. To fit a vent to open air would have been both ugly and expensive. It's not going to happen. If and when they they insist that the work has to be carried out, I'll just sell up. They can find their HAP tenant somewhere else to live.

Likely in a hotel room at huge expense.

If a landlord makes an effort as you did, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. HAP authorities shouldn't dictate significant structural changes to a property. They should be damn glad to have a HAP landlord.

jo2509 · 31-10-2019 1:03pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Everyone makes mistakes dude, that's life.

A fire blanket costs about a tenner and if you or your tenant ever need one it's hard to put a value on it.

As i said, the money is not the issue here, whether it was 10 euro or 1000 is irrelevant. The issue is that there was a perfectly functional fire blanket already in situ which was replaced needlessly because of their incompetence.

As an aside, before we were told of the typo, i asked the inspector if we took the 'defective' blanket with the missing 'CE mark' and put it in our own house was it fit for purpose as it was not deemed fit for purpose for a HAP tenant. Were we taking a safety risk by using it ourselves? His response? 'Oh no, it's totally safe to use'.
Go figure.

jo2509 · 31-10-2019 1:06pm

kceire wrote: »

A firm from D15 done mine on behalf of Fingal.
I also had to argue with them over restrictors on high level Velux windows but I held my ground and they came around and accepted it.

Yep, i think we had the same firm as you.

We stood our ground with the smoke alarms... there are two wired in alarms and just for extra peace of mind we put an extra battery operated smoke alarm in the kitchen. We were told that this alarm did not have the necessary BE mark... however it appears the inspector stood on the ground and peered up at it rather than actually stand on a two step,open the cover and look at the BE mark on the inside.

Rows Grower · 31-10-2019 1:27pm

jo2509 wrote: »

As i said, the money is not the issue here, whether it was 10 euro or 1000 is irrelevant. The issue is that there was a perfectly functional fire blanket already in situ which was replaced needlessly because of their incompetence.

As an aside, before we were told of the typo, i asked the inspector if we took the 'defective' blanket with the missing 'CE mark' and put it in our own house was it fit for purpose as it was not deemed fit for purpose for a HAP tenant. Were we taking a safety risk by using it ourselves? His response? 'Oh no, it's totally safe to use'.
Go figure.

I totally understand your point, my post was in response to the chap who said if it happened to him he would pursue it until he got an apology and a refund for the fire blanket.

jo2509 · 31-10-2019 1:38pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

I totally understand your point, my post was in response to the chap who said if it happened to him he would pursue it until he got an apology and a refund for the fire blanket.

Ah i see, apologies. To be honest i did consider chasing Fingal for a refund but at the rate they operate i'd probably have knitted a new fire blanket for myself, the tenant and all the neighbours before i heard anything back

emeldc · 31-10-2019 1:52pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Everyone makes mistakes dude, that's life.

A fire blanket costs about a tenner and if you or your tenant ever need one it's hard to put a value on it.

Next time someone leaves you a tenner short in your change just say 'Everyone makes mistakes dude', don't worry about it.
I wonder what kind of a job you have. Where I work if I make a mistake I pay for it. What's an acceptable level, €10, €20, €50, €100 maybe. Fcuk sake.

jo2509 · 31-10-2019 2:08pm

emeldc wrote: »

Next time someone leaves you a tenner short in your change just say 'Everyone makes mistakes dude', don't worry about it.
I wonder what kind of a job you have. Where I work if I make a mistake I pay for it. What's an acceptable level, €10, €20, €50, €100 maybe. Fcuk sake.

That's kinda my issue with this... fair enough their mistake did not cost us a huge amount of money but what if it had been a much bigger issue that they had made a mistake with, and we had forked out hundreds to rectify something unnecessarily. I think i will email the council just to give them feedback on the firms they are contracting this work out to.

I have to say the tenant is lovely and it has been smooth sailing so far (touch wood) but i would never go through the HAP process again and i don't blame landlords for not being keen to sign up either.

Rows Grower · 31-10-2019 2:48pm

emeldc wrote: »

Next time someone leaves you a tenner short in your change just say 'Everyone makes mistakes dude', don't worry about it.
I wonder what kind of a job you have. Where I work if I make a mistake I pay for it. What's an acceptable level, €10, €20, €50, €100 maybe. Fcuk sake.

I was merely pointing out that sometimes you gotta accept that people make mistakes, I'm sure you've made a couple yourself.

Trying to get a council to reimburse you for your time, effort and the price of a fire blanket would have been another one. No matter how dog like your attitude you would only be wasting time, energy and effort.

And actually if someone gives me the wrong change which has happened a few times my initial reaction is always "Don't worry about it, mistakes happen".

It's exactly what I said when my local bar owner was so convinced he was right he checked the camera he has trained on the cash till before apologising. Why take offence at an honest mistake?

ToBeFrank123 · 31-10-2019 3:24pm

jo2509 wrote: »

That's kinda my issue with this... fair enough their mistake did not cost us a huge amount of money but what if it had been a much bigger issue that they had made a mistake with, and we had forked out hundreds to rectify something unnecessarily. I think i will email the council just to give them feedback on the firms they are contracting this work out to.

I have to say the tenant is lovely and it has been smooth sailing so far (touch wood) but i would never go through the HAP process again and i don't blame landlords for not being keen to sign up either.

Financially and with the rules and regs, its not worth it and only the most decent of landlords would consider it. HAP tenants tend to be hardship cases on low incomes who would likely be homeless in other circumstances. There is no profit in it for the landlord as the tenant couldn't afford a significant rent increase in most cases. This is not a case of landlords making a fortune charging 2500 or 3000 a month for a two bed apartment. A landlord would be lucky to make 1500 a month from a HAP tenancy even in a good area. Forcing them out of HAP would cost the government a fortune in the long run if the tenants end up in hotels.

YFlyer · 01-11-2019 1:52pm

emeldc wrote: »

I think I remember seeing something on my letter saying if the repairs were not carried out that the property would be blacklisted as unfit for renting or something along those lines. Try and keep getting the rent off him while the application goes through. They don’t pay arrears and will even use the deposit held by you as part of the rent due. In my case the tenant ended up €1100 in arrears with no deposit. And HAP couldn’t give a fcuk.

What sites would the accommodation be blacklisted? Be a silver lining.

KneonK · 05-11-2019 4:32pm

YFlyer wrote: »

What sites would the accommodation be blacklisted? Be a silver lining.

Not that a contracted company would be authorised to do this but the Blacklist referred to would be a prohibition notice served under the Housing (miscellaneous provisions) Act 1992. Each council may keep their own list of these, for example for DCC.

https://www.dublincity.ie/housing-and-community-policy-and-initiatives-section-environmental-health/prohibition-notices

why you do not want one of these on your property.

Usually next after non compliance with an improvement notice. this will effectively stop the council paying HAP payments 13 or so weeks after it is served if it is not lifted in that time. it will not affect rent payment of a private tenant who is currently sitting.

if your property has a prohibition notice it means that you can not re-let the property once the sitting tenants have left. It also raises the likelihood of a landlord prosecution to practically 100%

Geo1984 · 12-02-2020 11:23pm

Dose any 1 no dose the hap inspector check to c who is living with you my partner stys sometimes and has some of her stuff here thanks

emeldc · 12-02-2020 11:29pm

Geo1984 wrote: »

Dose any 1 no dose the hap inspector check to c who is living with you my partner stys sometimes and has some of her stuff here thanks

Here’s hoping.

Maniac2020 · 12-02-2020 11:29pm

Tax cert is required for HAP I've never been asked for one and when I my tenant enquired about HAP with the council they called me and I told them flat out I didn't have one. They said I had 10 months to get one or something like that and never asked again.

Yellow_Fern · 09-03-2020 6:36pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

In the name of God above in heaven how could a cooker hood that is not vented to the outside pass any inspection by anyone?

Where do the fumes go?

Do you seriously think a cooker hood recycling fumes into the room is good enough for someone renting a property in this day and age?

Some people are just not meant to be landlords.

Charcoal/carbon filters work fine. Actually they are pretty common in new builds, because they have mechanical ventilation. If you dont have mechanical ventilation just opening the window is enough.

Patricia bridget · 24-10-2020 9:08am

My landlord is obliged to put a vent in a Very thick stone wall living room. In last house this also created a terrible draught - HAP as mentioned on this thread. Is it possible to buy a window with a vent in it . There has to be a better option

Mad_maxx · 24-10-2020 1:07pm

Patricia bridget wrote: »

My landlord is obliged to put a vent in a Very thick stone wall living room. In last house this also created a terrible draught - HAP as mentioned on this thread. Is it possible to buy a window with a vent in it . There has to be a better option

the council are obsessed with ventilation , if the living room is on the small side , they might well claim that trickle vents in the windows are unacceptable

i was told this three years ago about a stone built house , they let me away with it in the living room downstairs but upstairs i had to put vented slates on the roof over each bedroom and fit ducting pipe down into the attic , load of crap , now you have a draft and a risk of dampness emerging in the attic

if the living room is reasonably big , trickle vents in the windows ( retro fit existing ones ) should be fine depending on which council inspector you meet

Council Inspection for HAP

Comments