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Waterford | Kilkenny | Wexford Ireland South East 2020 European Capital of Culture Ca

  • 26-03-2015 5:49pm
    #1
    comeraghs
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭


    Ireland South East 2020
    European Capital of Culture Candidate
    Waterford | Kilkenny | Wexford

    I think this is a very innovative idea for the 3 councils to get together to launch a bid & I think there is a good chance of success.

    Of course in an ideal world Waterford would bid by itself & possibly so would Kilkenny but being realistic Waterford wouldn't have a hope up against the political heavyweights that Galway & Limerick have backing them, but with the 3 constituencies hopefully united & in full support WHY NOT?

    Hopefully it would lead to more cooperation in other areas in the future & a united South-East lobby instead of Waterford, Kilkenny & Wexford shafting each other as has been the situation in the past.

    Looking at populations from CSO 2011
    Waterford 55,519
    Kilkenny 24,423
    Wexford 20,072

    It seems fair that Waterford is the lead applicant with KK & WX in support.

    https://www.facebook.com/irelandsoutheast2020


Comments

  • #2
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    comeraghs wrote: »

    Looking at populations from CSO 2011
    Waterford 55,519
    Kilkenny 24,423
    Wexford 20,072

    It seems fair that Waterford is the lead applicant with KK & WX in support[/url]

    what has population got to do with it? Either way Co Wexford has the biggest population so your talking through your arse.



    The bid itself is a good idea.


  • #3
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    what has population got to do with it? Either way Co Wexford has the biggest population so your talking through your arse.



    The bid itself is a good idea.

    A county can't be the capital of anything so Wexford's "biggest" (snigger!) population claim is ridiculous.One post and already the usual parochial straw clutching. Those weekend Dubs that bought holiday homes or rent caravans in Courtown don't count. Especially as the last place that people seem to want to live in Wexford is in the town itself.


  • #4
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    A county can't be the capital of anything so Wexford's "biggest" (snigger!) population claim is ridiculous.One post and already the usual parochial straw clutching. Those weekend Dubs that bought holiday homes or rent caravans in Courtown don't count. Especially as the last place that people seem to want to live in Wexford is in the town itself.
    The point that went over your head is that if Waterford is indeed leading the bid as comeraghs says, it is likely due to cultural/historical reasons/ability to host key events, not due to population.

    The irony of you talking about parochialism as you cut the back off your nearest neighbours. (snigger)


  • #5
    Hoffmans
    Registered Users Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭Hoffmans


    South east would easily win a bid for a.capital of apathy..


  • #6
    Morte
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭Morte


    comeraghs wrote: »
    Of course in an ideal world Waterford would bid by itself & possibly so would Kilkenny but being realistic Waterford wouldn't have a hope up against the political heavyweights that Galway & Limerick have backing them, but with the 3 constituencies hopefully united & in full support WHY NOT?
    Because this is declaring that Waterford's peers are not the other cities of Ireland, it is just another one of the largeish towns dotted around the country. Even its own council thinks so.


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  • #7
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    The point that went over your head is that if Waterford is indeed leading the bid as comeraghs says, it is likely due to cultural/historical reasons/ability to host key events, not due to population.

    The irony of you talking about parochialism as you cut the back off your nearest neighbours. (snigger)

    The point is/was which is definitely gone over your head is that the Wexford having a larger population claim is completely contrived on your part. In any case comeraghs post was a fair comment that you seemed to have a problem with. Why the "talking through your arse comment"? Nothing ironic about it. I will tell you what is ironic though there is a South East group for the European Capital of Culture bid where there is an opportunity for some "moolah" to be had from the marketing. When it came to hospitals or anything else their was the typical begrudging attitude and efforts to undermine Waterfords regional Capital Status.


  • #8
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    The point is/was which is definitely gone over your head is that the Wexford having a larger population claim is completely contrived on your part.
    Co Wexfords population is larger than Co Waterfords. How is it contrived.?
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    . In any case comeraghs post was a fair comment that you seemed to have a problem with. Why the "talking through your arse comment"?

    like I said population of wexford town is irrelevant as it is the three counties that are involved in the bid, not three county towns.
    There is no requirement for any minimum population anyway to make a bid.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Nothing ironic about it. I will tell you what is ironic though there is a South East group for the European Capital of Culture bid where there is an opportunity for some "moolah" to be had from the marketing. When it came to hospitals or anything else their was the typical begrudging attitude and efforts to undermine Waterfords regional Capital Status.
    The opening post comeraghs talks about "cooperation, unity and not shafting each other" and in the next breath he quotes irrelevant figures to undermine kilkenny and wexford s involvement!
    As for your comments about 'caravans in Courtown, and nobody wants to live in wexford town'. You'd expect it from a 10 year old.

    As for the last bit of your comment im not going to go raking over old ground, but I will say one thing, the south east region is unlike any other region in that its population is spread more evenly and therefore it doesn't function like the other regions do. Its position between Cork and Dublin is another challenge that's not going to go away. Waterford city needs to play the hand its been dealt.


  • #9
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    Co Wexfords population is larger than Co Waterfords. How is it contrived.?


    Because County Wexford is a rural area with no relevance to the idea of "capitals of culture" which is awarded to "cities."

    gobo99 wrote: »
    like I said population of wexford town is irrelevant as it is the three counties that are involved in the bid, not three county towns.
    There is no requirement for any minimum population anyway to make a bid.

    Therefore the population Its not irrelevant. The idea that the cultural capital being awarded to counties is completely counter-intuitive.It has always been awarded to cities.
    Which I suspect is what motivated comeraghs post in the first place to which you came back with your nonsens reply about Wexfords population being larger.


    gobo99 wrote: »
    The opening post comeraghs talks about "cooperation, unity and not shafting each other" and in the next breath he quotes irrelevant figures to undermine kilkenny and wexford s involvement!
    As for your comments about 'caravans in Courtown, and nobody wants to live in wexford town'. You'd expect it from a 10 year old.

    Well that's the truth of the situation and you know it. You're the one got bent out of shape over a fair point. I wonder why? Why so sensitive?

    gobo99 wrote: »
    As for the last bit of your comment im not going to go raking over old ground, but I will say one thing, the south east region is unlike any other region in that its population is spread more evenly and therefore it doesn't function like the other regions do. Its position between Cork and Dublin is another challenge that's not going to go away. Waterford city needs to play the hand its been dealt.

    Christ you're almost quoting Phil Hogan now.If I didn't know better I would say you were Brendan Howlin judging by the speed you were trying to "big up" Wexford. Not to mention your last statement is a bit rich considereing your own infantile "knee jerk" response.The first one of the thread no less.....


  • #10
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Because County Wexford is a rural area with no relevance to the idea of "capitals of culture" which is awarded to "cities."

    Therefore the population Its not irrelevant. The idea that the cultural capital being awarded to counties is completely counter-intuitive.It has always been awarded to cities.
    Which I suspect is what motivated comeraghs post in the first place to which you came back with your nonsens reply about Wexfords population being larger.
    A quote from their facebook page
    https://m.facebook.com/irelandsoutheast2020?refid=13

    "Ireland South East, the partner counties of Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford are jointly bidding to hold the title of European Capital of Culture for Ireland in 2020"
    From the horses mouth. Again wexford towns population is irrelevant as are any population figures.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

    Well that's the truth of the situation and you know it. You're the one got bent out of shape over a fair point. I wonder why? Why so sensitive?
    How is it a fair point? "Caravans in Courtown and nobody wanting to live in Wexford town" has no bearing on the topic. Again talking through your arse...
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    Christ you're almost quoting Phil Hogan now.If I didn't know better I would say you were Brendan Howlin judging by the speed you were trying to "big up" Wexford. Not to mention your last statement is a bit rich considereing your own infantile "knee jerk" response.The first one of the thread no less

    Good man , got a few more digs in at the end there.

    Best of luck to the people organising this partnership. They have their work cut out.


  • #11
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    A quote from their facebook page
    https://m.facebook.com/irelandsoutheast2020?refid=13

    "Ireland South East, the partner counties of Waterford, Kilkenny and Wexford are jointly bidding to hold the title of European Capital of Culture for Ireland in 2020"
    From the horses mouth. Again wexford towns population is irrelevant as are any population figures.

    This is the facebook page of the bidders. How is this from the horses mouth? Since the things inception never once has it been given to region such a county or a number of counties. Again it is given to cities or more accurately urban areas. Only a fool would try and deny that the implicit understanding of the concept is that if successful would involve Waterford and Kilkenny Cities and Wexford town. A rudimentary check of which is the largest city by a neutral party to see who would take the lead is also a fair cop so the populations of the urban centers are also not irrelevant. Other issues like venues would be teased out in the subsequent analysis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Capital_of_Culture
    gobo99 wrote: »
    How is it a fair point? "Caravans in Courtown and nobody wanting to live in Wexford town" has no bearing on the topic. Again talking through your arse...

    Because your attempts of obfuscation by bringing in county populations specifically Wexford belies certain facts. The population of the South East is not as evenly spread as you are suggesting which is the reason using counties as statistical areas is utterly useless and futile which in my opinion deserved the caravan comment because of your dis-ingenuousness.Major Population growth in Wexford is happening not in Wexford town but in the North where there is an excess of holiday homes including caravans and mobiles and commuters from Dublin.Hence the comment. You might not like it but it is based on facts.
    gobo99 wrote: »
    Good man , got a few more digs in at the end there.

    Yeah well your sum contribution of worth is telling people they are "talking through their arse" when the opposite is obviously true.
    gobo99 wrote: »
    Best of luck to the people organising this partnership. They have their work cut out.

    They certainly do. I wonder will we hear from Cllr. "Wexford is finished if Waterford gets a University".Or maybe Cllr"The tri-color festival should be held in Enniscorthy". Indeed!


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  • #12
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    Ok heres a direct quote from European Capital of Cultures website.
    "The size of a city is not a factor. Cities of over 1 million and cities below 25,000 have been ECOCs. Cities may involve their surrounding areas (i.e. neighbouring cities or regions). This happened, for example, in 2007 when Luxembourg involved the Grand Region; in 2010 when Essen led a Ruhr region; in 2012 Maribor involved 5 other cities in eastern Slovenia and in 2013 Marseilles-Provence involved 90% of the department Bouches-du-Rhone. However one city must be the lead city for accountability and responsibility. "


    A quote from Kilkenny County Councils Chief Executive John Mulholland:
    In 2020, the European Capital of Culture will reside in Ireland, and the Government is to announce the competition for it presently. At least three cities – Dublin, Limerick, and Galway – are expected to make a bid for it.

    “To this end, in the interests of economies of scale and in promoting the region, culture and landscape of the south-east in Ireland, it is proposed that the three counties of Kilkenny, Wexford, and Waterford would jointly prepare a bid for the European Capital of Culture in 2020,” he said.

    Waterford County Council would act as the lead authority in this, and the cost of the bid would be split 40:30:30 between the three. If it goes ahead, a bid office would be established in Ferrybank.

    So there you have it, the whole 3 counties involved in the bid. Waterford County Council taking accountability and responsibility for the bid.
    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    ....Since the things inception never once has it been given to region such a county or a number of counties...

    ....it is given to cities or more accurately urban areas....
    .....the populations of the urban centers are also not irrelevant. ....

    So have you anything to back up any of this or are you indeed, talking through your arse?

    As for the rest of your trash talk, if you want to talk about politicians go to the politics forum, if you want to talk about courtown go to the Wexford forum. I've no interest in either.


  • #13
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    Ok heres a direct quote from European Capital of Cultures website.

    Nonetheless being the city is the factor therefore a "county" cannot be the capital of culture.It is the urban centres within the counties that the pitch is being made for. It also doesn't negate the fact that the largest city or the county with the largest city would by common sense take the lead as it is more likely than not the one whic will have the greater number of cultural attractions and infrastructure....... which is Waterford in this case.

    gobo99 wrote: »
    A quote from Kilkenny County Councils Chief Executive John Mulholland:.

    Again the councils are making the bid based on the urban centres not on the constitient villages and rural areas.Again only someone completely delusional or with some parochial axe to grind that can't handle the fact that its not some rural promotion strategy would think otherwise.

    gobo99 wrote: »
    So there you have it, the whole 3 counties involved in the bid. Waterford County Council taking accountability and responsibility for the bid.:.

    Which is not at odds with Comeraghs inital assumption.
    gobo99 wrote: »
    So have you anything to back up any of this or are you indeed, talking through your arse?

    Yes the link I posted which without exception has shown that the European Capital of Culture is based on Cities.It is the City which is awarded the title. You have shown nothing to the contrary. You seem to have a basic problem with reality. Not only that the links you posted also show that cities are the overiding necessity to make a bid. The only importance of the "county" is that their local authority has to make the bid on behalf of their constituent cities. You seem to be under some delsuion that because there is county council involvement that it is a county based enterprise.

    gobo99 wrote: »
    As for the rest of your trash talk, if you want to talk about politicians go to the politics forum, if you want to talk about courtown go to the Wexford forum. I've no interest in either.

    Oh I didn't realize you were a moderator....Oh hang on! Your not!....You're just talking through your arse.....Again:D


  • #14
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    I see you have nothing to back up any of what you've claimed again. Im not claiming to be an expert but I think the European Capital of Culture website is a better source than fuzzy dunlop.


  • #15
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    I see you have nothing to back up any of what you've claimed again. Im not claiming to be an expert but I think the European Capital of Culture website is a better source than fuzzy dunlop.

    So what's wrong? You can't click on the wiki link? You know the one I posted with ten different references including from the European Comission.Or are you bat **** crazy enough to think fuzzy dunlop and Wikipedia are one and the same. I mean seriously you cant read the list of places that held the title and clearly see that without exception they have been cities? Are you seriosly denying that that is not the case.


  • #16
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    I mean seriously you cant read the list of places that held the title and clearly see that without exception they have been cities? Are you seriosly denying that that is not the case.
    here's the examples i gave you already

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille-Provence_2013

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr.2010


  • #17
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    here's the examples i gave you already

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille-Provence_2013

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr.2010


    How does this support your arguement? The Marseille bid involved Metropolitan Marselile hence the title Marseille-Provence. Your over-reaching comparing an Irish county like Wexford to a highly urbamised region. Not to mention that that there was no other region mentioned in the nomenclature. Marseiile-Provence is Marseille in its entirety in other words Greater Marseille.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruhr.2010#/media/File:Ruhr_area-map.png

    This is the Ruhr region which is Europes largest urban area in other words City. In what reality is this comparable to an Irish county. Also only one city was entitled the European capital of Culture for representation i.e Essen.


  • #18
    gobo99
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭gobo99


    The Marseilles 2013 bid was on behalf of the Marseilles-Provence.
    The Ruhr 2010 bid was on behalf of the Ruhr region.
    The Southeast 2020 bid is on behalf of the south-east region. (Co Wexford Co Kilkenny and Co Waterford.)
    Waterford City and county council are making the bid on the regions behalf. It's that simple.


  • #19
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    gobo99 wrote: »
    The Marseilles 2013 bid was on behalf of the Marseilles-Provence.
    The Ruhr 2010 bid was on behalf of the Ruhr region.
    The Southeast 2020 bid is on behalf of the south-east region. (Co Wexford Co Kilkenny and Co Waterford.)
    Waterford City and county council are making the bid on the regions behalf. It's that simple.


    Again you have a huge problem coping with a salient fact. The Ruhr region and MP are essentially cities and the bids came from a city.The title nomenclature was awarderd for posterity to a city. A city is the pre-requisite. So remember its Waterford City and County council making the bid on the regions behalf.


  • #20
    comeraghs
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭comeraghs


    Firstly GOBO99 I wasn't saying Waterford should be leading the bid, I am saying it is as the website says & the bid as far as I can see is for the 3 URBAN centres of Kilkenny, Wexford & Waterford to host it & not the counties.

    As far as I can see Thomastown, Castlecomer, Gorey, Enniscorthy, Lismore or Dungarvan are not going to be involved just Waterford City, Kilkenny & Wexford town. So I really don't see why you are having a go at me!


  • #21
    comeraghs
    Registered Users Posts: 957 ✭✭✭comeraghs


    Haven't heard much the last week or so on this, When is the actual application date does anybody know?


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