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Waterford University discussion

13567…124

Comments

  • #62
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    Quick question, if WIT gets UNI Status, will these cough cough "admin Fees" rise more because it is a UNI??


  • #63
    Dan133269
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Dan133269


    Lads education minister Bat O' Keefe has said that IF third level fees are re-introduced, it would not be under the 100,000 euro threshold. If anyone's family income is that high, you're certainly not gonna feel the pinch for paying for college fees.

    And if they do decide to bring in fees for everyone I'd say every college and secondary school student will march upon the dail and rightfully so. I'd say we don't have too much to worry about :)


  • #64
    Elle Victorine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Elle Victorine


    To be honest with ya I'm expecting it to be coming in in all ways shapes and forms. Next they will discontinue the option to repeat exams in the summer and for a 15% exam we'll have to pay the full whack of a full years module. If the colleges are indeed in as much trouble as they say they are they can't rely on foreign students and the administration fee's alone. We;re alreay feelin the pinch.

    However it'd be nice if that means test were true.

    and I don't know about your admin fees but ours were over a grand this year in ucc and that's been a steady rise in the three years I'm attending so you'd never know you could get bitten on that front IF it does become a university. But all in good time.


  • #65
    abouttobebanned
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,943 ✭✭✭abouttobebanned


    Anyone hear anything about A South East University?

    text I got today:

    "according to briefing, university of south east going to be delivered"


  • #66
    Psychedelic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    abouttobebanned wrote: »
    Anyone hear anything about A South East University?

    text I got today:

    "according to briefing, university of south east going to be delivered"
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0909/1224303756350.html


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  • #67
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    Wait now, am I reading this right?
    Cabinet agrees to fast-track university for southeast

    THE GOVERNMENT has decided to “accelerate” the establishment of a technological university in the southeast following the decision of the TalkTalk call centre to close down its facility in Waterford, with the loss of over 500 jobs.

    They're not saying that they've decided to review, or study, or report, or otherwise kick to touch... they've agreed to fast-track it and decided to accelerate its establishment, rather than kicking to touch as every other government has always done.

    Should I pop open the champagne now or should I wait until the word "University" is over a door in Waterford?


  • #68
    jonnyfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 2,333 ✭✭✭jonnyfingers


    fricatus wrote: »
    Should I pop open the champagne now or should I wait until the word "University" is over a door in Waterford?

    News just in: Brendan McCann has launched an objection. :D


  • #69
    Psychedelic
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭Psychedelic


    fricatus wrote: »
    Wait now, am I reading this right?



    They're not saying that they've decided to review, or study, or report, or otherwise kick to touch... they've agreed to fast-track it and decided to accelerate its establishment, rather than kicking to touch as every other government has always done.

    Should I pop open the champagne now or should I wait until the word "University" is over a door in Waterford?
    Believe it when you see it. "Fast track" to them could mean years knowing politicians.


  • #70
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    Well, I hope they buy up the old Waterford Crystal site and make it a good big campus, rather than this multi-campus crap which I fear is what they are considering.


  • #71
    jmcc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,291 ✭✭✭jmcc


    abouttobebanned wrote: »
    Anyone hear anything about A South East University?

    text I got today:

    "according to briefing, university of south east going to be delivered"
    Knowing these FGers and Labourites it will probably be in Carlow, Wexford or Kilkenny in the 22 nd Century.

    Regards...jmcc


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  • #72
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    Move along... Nothing to see here.. We didnt actually really mean you were getting one.. We just meant.. We'd.. em.. think about it faster.

    Government clarifies stance on proposed ‘technological university’ for Waterford


  • #73
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    I forgot about the report. I suppose it wouldn't be smart to run with a plan without actually making sure it would work, so they need to establish that first than decide who deserves it. Wonder will WIT make it - I assume they judge more than just the buildings.


  • #74
    letsbet
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭letsbet


    When will certain people here realise that there is no will in Dublin to give the South East a university. It's amazing how some people trust what certain politicians say on this matter. At most we'll get a name change in a couple of years time which will have very little economic impact on the region other than making us merge with other ITs and therefore making a lot of people go to Carlow for example to do certain courses and a lot of the great work that has been done in WIT in recent years setting up certain courses will be lost. Afterall, one of the plans floated last year was to merge with CIT and have all the higher level stuff taught down there and leave us with the leftovers. Why oh why don't people realise that politicians just want to throw out a nice soundbite in the form of a false promise that they will later backtrack on and say that they were mis-quoted or that they meant something else or that their coalition colleagues blocked it. If we're waiting for a university here to get us out of our mess then we're fooked!
    Sully wrote: »
    I forgot about the report. I suppose it wouldn't be smart to run with a plan without actually making sure it would work.

    It is therefore not very smart of them to promise the designation on two occasions is it?


  • #75
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    Id say the South East will get one alright. Just be interesting to see who gets it and where it will be located :)


  • #76
    MitchKoobski
    Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭MitchKoobski


    dayshah wrote: »
    Well, I hope they buy up the old Waterford Crystal site and make it a good big campus, rather than this multi-campus crap which I fear is what they are considering.
    AFAIK theres a problem with the land of the Waterford Crystal site. Something to do with the lead in the ground. Fairly sure I was told this when I asked why someone just doesnt buy the site, but I could easily be wrong.


  • #77
    letsbet
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭letsbet


    Well if we get one it'll be definitely at least two ITs involved but Waterford would have to be the major campus. Not sure how it would work though when campuses would be so far apart. Imo, it'll be mainly a name change as it was from RTC to IT as becoming a full-blown university just isn't an option. There are some great lecturers in WIT but university teaching is a completely different ball game. We would not be able to completely change the way we teach and what we teach. Also, the number of hours delivered by university lecturers is around a third of the equivalent for an IT lecturer and I can't see the govt hiring a shedload more lecturers. The infrastructure for a university is also not quite there in WIT (I mean the physical infrastructure as opposed to all the other types that are missing). Class sizes are becoming more like those in universities but there's already problems with there not being enough classrooms large enough to accomodate the larger groups.

    It'll be an interesting few months ahead but don't be surprised if another investigation is done and the conclusion is reached that it would not be a good idea to change things. From the point of view of WIT (as opposed to the wider regional considerations) I think WIT is better off as an IT, as it could continue to attempt to be the best IT, rather than one of the weakest universities. big fish, small pond and all that.


  • #78
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    AFAIK theres a problem with the land of the Waterford Crystal site. Something to do with the lead in the ground. Fairly sure I was told this when I asked why someone just doesnt buy the site, but I could easily be wrong.

    The lead rumour applied beside Maxol also where Aldi now sits. I mentioned this to the former president and was told there wasn't the money. A great idea, just not the money.


  • #79
    letsbet
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭letsbet


    Sully wrote: »
    The lead rumour applied beside Maxol also where Aldi now sits. I mentioned this to the former president and was told there wasn't the money. A great idea, just not the money.

    I wonder where all the money went :)


  • #80
    Trotter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭Trotter


    Well Richard Bruton said on 6.1 News during the week..
    The region I know has been very strong in its view that there needs to be a technological university and Im very pleased that one of the measures decided by cabinet is that will be explored much more rapidly

    In the context of the region being treated like the runt of the Irish litter, how ridiculous would it be for him to say that, and then say that the rapid exploration has found that we're getting FA.

    Joining with CIT will strengthen the Cork economy and thereby drag the local South Eastern economy further into the mess.

    I dunno, theres been so many things said with conviction pre election by Labour and FG politicians that are now gone very watery that I just don't believe we're going to get treated fairly as a region. The competing regions are too strong in terms of TD numbers and influence.

    It suits all the main parties just fine to let Waterford go down the plug hole. It just saves them money. They'll lose 2 or 3 TDs. Big deal to them. John Deasy's website doesn't even mention Talk Talk. The last statement is from August 27th and before that, May 6th.

    I just don't believe its in any of the parties' interests to strengthen Waterford. Why would they when all that will do is annoy TDs from Cork, Wexford and Kilkenny.. Cork especially given they have the only University in the South. Same goes for the airport.. Show me another gateway city thats 2 hours from an airport with a proper runway. Same reason goes?

    /rant


  • #81
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    FYI, a blog post on the issue:
    The fall-out from TalkTalk and a Technological University for the South East.

    By the way, last I heard, the WIT-CIT merger was off the table again. WIT were in talks with Carlow.


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  • #82
    letsbet
    Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭letsbet


    merlante wrote: »
    FYI, a blog post on the issue:
    The fall-out from TalkTalk and a Technological University for the South East.

    By the way, last I heard, the WIT-CIT merger was off the table again. WIT were in talks with Carlow.

    Indeed. The WIT/CIT really makes no sense imo and I can't see it happening. The one with Carlow is much more likely to happen if anything does.


  • #83
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    merlante wrote: »
    FYI, a blog post on the issue:
    The fall-out from TalkTalk and a Technological University for the South East.

    By the way, last I heard, the WIT-CIT merger was off the table again. WIT were in talks with Carlow.

    Brilliant article. The only wish that I would have when people are making comparisons with Galway is that they wouldn't just use the official city populations, which are skewed by boundary idiosyncracies.

    The population of the Galway area as defined by the population living within 25 km of the city centre is 152,000. The equivalent figure for the Waterford area is 131,000.

    This comparison is never made public because like-for-like population statistics are not published in this country as far as I can see. I have heard people justify Galway having a university and Waterford not on the basis that the population of Co. Waterford is only 113,707 as against Co. Galway's 250,541. This ignores the fact that Co. Galway has three times the land area of Co. Waterford, and that people living in suburban areas on the northside of Waterford are not counted, because they're in Co. Kilkenny.

    I worked this population comparison out using a map of District Electoral Areas, a compass and pencil, the Census 2011 results and a copy of Excel. If anyone can do a more accurate job, please do!


  • #84
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    merlante wrote: »
    FYI, a blog post on the issue:
    The fall-out from TalkTalk and a Technological University for the South East.

    By the way, last I heard, the WIT-CIT merger was off the table again. WIT were in talks with Carlow.

    Its fast changing but I had heard last year that Carlow refused to talk with WIT. Has that now changed?


  • #85
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,179 ✭✭✭Junior


    Strange that Tipp Campuses have been brought under the wing of LIT. And they don't seem to happy about it..


  • #86
    dayshah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭dayshah


    MitchKoobski wrote: »
    AFAIK theres a problem with the land of the Waterford Crystal site. Something to do with the lead in the ground. Fairly sure I was told this when I asked why someone just doesnt buy the site, but I could easily be wrong.

    Even with that the land has to be used for something, or it will go derelict. Maybe it could be used for more industry. But I think spending a few million to clean it up for WIT would be well worth the money. I really don't like the idea of multi-campus, and using the W Crystal site means they can bring the stuff back in from Carriganore. Its expensive, but its a long term vision we need.


  • #87
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    Sully wrote: »
    Its fast changing but I had heard last year that Carlow refused to talk with WIT. Has that now changed?

    The new government moved the goal posts by talking about a 'technical university for the south east' in the programme for government. So it has to be south east institutes. Some time later WIT announced they had begun talks with Carlow IT.


  • #88
    merlante
    Registered Users Posts: 2,272 ✭✭✭merlante


    fricatus wrote: »
    Brilliant article. The only wish that I would have when people are making comparisons with Galway is that they wouldn't just use the official city populations, which are skewed by boundary idiosyncracies.

    The population of the Galway area as defined by the population living within 25 km of the city centre is 152,000. The equivalent figure for the Waterford area is 131,000.

    This comparison is never made public because like-for-like population statistics are not published in this country as far as I can see. I have heard people justify Galway having a university and Waterford not on the basis that the population of Co. Waterford is only 113,707 as against Co. Galway's 250,541. This ignores the fact that Co. Galway has three times the land area of Co. Waterford, and that people living in suburban areas on the northside of Waterford are not counted, because they're in Co. Kilkenny.

    I worked this population comparison out using a map of District Electoral Areas, a compass and pencil, the Census 2011 results and a copy of Excel. If anyone can do a more accurate job, please do!

    Well done! :) Agree that city populations are actually not the most important population figures to use. What is important is that both region have more or less the same populations, with the south east coming in a bit higher.

    These sort of questions have come up before:

    30 minute drivetime catchments:
    Waterford: 120,000
    Galway: 134,000

    More or less the same story is told in these figures.

    Can't find some of the originals source I found before... but, Drivetime populations from Waterford. (Okay, it's a developer but they obviously paid the CSO for those figures.)

    Incidentally, as to the cities themselves, I predicted in another thread, after the census 2011, that when the final results come out -- after suburbs are added -- the populations of Waterford and Galway will look as follows:

    Waterford 51,550 +4.7%
    Galway 75,800 +4.2%

    Interestingly, Tramore will probably come in around 11,000. At what point should we start thinking of Waterford and Tramore as pretty much the same entity? The population is clearly being split between the two and there is less than 6km between the Waterford city boundary and the start of the Tramore urban area. The combined population will probably come out around 63,000 in the final census results.

    The shame of it is that with city and county councils under pressure to merge, there may no longer be counties representing urban areas anymore, which I believe would be a terrible development. (Merge away, but please preserve urban/rural divide.)


  • #89
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    I see John Deasy has added his spake on the issue today. I think this shows there certainly is no consensus on the issue in government yet.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0911/waterfordit.html


  • #90
    Sully
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sully


    fuzzy dunlop wrote: »
    I see John Deasy has added his spake on the issue today. I think this shows there certainly is no consensus on the issue in government yet.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0911/waterfordit.html

    Meh, he complained about the party in opposition. He has been complaining again about the party while in government for the same reasons (not University, but the whole "different messages" ) and picked the perfect opportunity to get more national attention. Pinch of salt tbh, just seems like attention seeking.

    WIT University isn't our solution, maybe it might help long term a multi-university campus in the South East.


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  • #91
    fuzzy dunlop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭fuzzy dunlop


    Sully wrote: »
    Meh, he complained about the party in opposition. He has been complaining again about the party while in government for the same reasons (not University, but the whole "different messages" ) and picked the perfect opportunity to get more national attention. Pinch of salt tbh, just seems like attention seeking.

    WIT University isn't our solution, maybe it might help long term a multi-university campus in the South East.


    Well Sully there are many people who do believe the University is the issue.What is it that Deasy said that is incorrect?

    These are the facts of the present situation.

    The government has not agreed to fast track the upgrade or to even facilitate it at all.

    We are in the same position as we were prior to the election.

    Deasy is bang on the money and is doing his duty by letting us know.

    I would trust Deasy on this a lot more than the other two light weights.

    This idea of a multi-university campus is great if it effectively means a merger with Carlow and Waterford and the upgrade of the merged institution to a University. However it doesn't mean this. It means spreading any would be new institution across several campus in Waterford, Carlow, Wexford and Kilkenny for the benefit of messrs Hogan and Howlin.


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