Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

gunny123 · 08-06-2017 5:30pm

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Clinton....gun ownership.....Great choice...Not.
Obama gun ownership...Google operation Fast&furious...A genuine conspircy theory that leads right to his door along with Eric Holder...More subopenas and warrents have been issued for that just today.

Clinton said in canvassing that she was going to close the gunshow loophole, and butted heads with the NRA. No candidate has ever won without the NRA being on side.

Grizzly 45 · 09-06-2017 12:01am

Sparks wrote: »

Google says no, got a link?

My bad !I was half listening to two reports while doig somthing else and got it cross wired.:o
But this is the current updates on this ;

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2017/06/congressional_committee_revisi.html

https://oversight.house.gov/hearing/fast-furious-six-years-later/

Cass · 09-06-2017 10:47am

Watching the news and the Tories have lost 12 seats yet everyone is calling for May's head, how she has to go, etc. Right she looses the majority they had and underestimated the "student" vote that Corbyn appeals to, but with 23+ independents i'm thinking it won't be hard to fill the ranks.

Also they are hailing Corbyn as the second coming of Christ because he gained almost 30 seats from the disaster that was Ed Milliband and the 2015 election. He still lost, and by nearly 70 seats. One journalist said she still thinks Corbyn can become the next Prime Minister.

How? With the Lib Dems, SNP and pretty much all the Independents he'd just about make it.

Cass · 09-06-2017 10:52am

BTW if you're thinking of buying something in the UK now is the time, Sterling hitting an all time low against the Euro at almost £0.90 to the Euro.

ezra_ · 09-06-2017 12:31pm

Cass wrote: »

BTW if you're thinking of buying something in the UK now is the time, Sterling hitting an all time low against the Euro at almost £0.90 to the Euro.

Spare a thought for those of us who sell to Britain - slide is sterling is not fun. Yet again, we go through chaos in the FX markets

Sparks · 09-06-2017 2:14pm

Cass wrote: »

Watching the news and the Tories have lost 12 seats yet everyone is calling for May's head, how she has to go, etc. Right she looses the majority they had and underestimated the "student" vote that Corbyn appeals to, but with 23+ independents i'm thinking it won't be hard to fill the ranks.

Well they've opted officially (May's off to see the Queen today) to partner with the DUP.

So that's going to go well. The UK press paints Corbyn as an IRA sympathiser because he was listening to Sinn Fein during the good friday negotiations; now the Tories have gotten in bed with the actual UVF.
/headdesk.

Also they are hailing Corbyn as the second coming of Christ because he gained almost 30 seats from the disaster that was Ed Milliband and the 2015 election. He still lost, and by nearly 70 seats.

Yeah, but the last labour leader to do as well or better did so by banning UK pistols in the wake of Dunblane as an electioneering stunt. Corbyn represents the non-new-labour side of things and he's just taken a bunch of previously safe tory seats (and every single marginal seat that Theresa May visited, to the great amusement of the tory parliamentary party according to some UK sources this morning). From where they were, that's a major improvement.
Not to mention, they got 72% of the votes from young people (a demographic they increased enormously) and there's a tendency for people to stay with the party they start with so over a longer term, that's a massive improvement for the party. They're *ecstatic* at the result, and they're reasonably justified to be fair.

How? With the Lib Dems, SNP and pretty much all the Independents he'd just about make it.

Minority government. We've done it before here and in the UK and in Scotland, so it's not impossible. Worked reasonably well, even, up to a point. Course, there's always some little Bertie who can show up and sink it all...

Cass · 09-06-2017 7:40pm

Sparks wrote: »

Well they've opted officially (May's off to see the Queen today) to partner with the DUP.

Heard it on the radio this afternoon. Thats 12 seats so she is over the finish line.

So that's going to go well.

Hah.

The UK press paints Corbyn as an IRA sympathiser because he was listening to Sinn Fein during the good friday negotiations; now the Tories have gotten in bed with the actual UVF.
/headdesk.

Won't argue with you on that one.

This goes back to what we were saying about Abbott. Right she might have had a good education, career and broke all sorts of barriers, but all the general public want is here and now with any dirt. So play Corbyn refusing to condemn the IRA over and over and job done.

However without going back on my stand point his views towards the current terrorist threat and security/policing in general is not something i'd be a fan of/agree with.

Minority government. We've done it before here and in the UK and in Scotland, so it's not impossible. Worked reasonably well, even, up to a point. Course, there's always some little Bertie who can show up and sink it all...

I'm not saying it's not possible, i'm saying its improbable. A coalition of four to five parties. Somewhat redundant, but its a much, much longer shot than May and Foster.

Sparks · 09-06-2017 8:15pm

Also they are hailing Corbyn as the second coming of Christ because he gained almost 30 seats from the disaster that was Ed Milliband and the 2015 election. He still lost, and by nearly 70 seats.

Actually, side note on that, I found out what that was about - he apparently won the largest majority in his constituency in UK history.

Cass · 09-06-2017 9:26pm

Just reading something similar with May. Tories won largest amount of total turnout in nearly 40 years. They took 42+% of the total turnout.

Cass · 11-06-2017 10:54am

An Varadkar is out of the gates .........................

Sparks · 11-06-2017 4:00pm

Oh great, he's wasting more money. As if he didn't have his plate full enough with Northern Ireland about to catch on fire thanks to May and Brexit coming down the tracks (and he's dumping the €2.5bn emergency fund we'll wind up needing when that starts to bite).

It'd be real nice if there was some good news for a change

ezra_ · 11-06-2017 4:05pm

Cass wrote: »

An Varadkar is out of the gates .........................

Those have been around for a while.

I've seen Revenue, Customs and Social Welfare out at check points before.

I remember reading about them catching a few guys who were in trade vans, but who were still unemployed. This seems to be the same, but targeting a different cohort.

Cass · 11-06-2017 7:38pm

I've seen customs, revenue and Garda ones on a regular basis, but the Dole "on patrol" is a new one to me.

Given his opinions on the unemployed this is right up Varadkars (careful now) street. He lied about the amount involved in welfare fraud, and neglected to say the amount given out by the department in mistaken payments actually far outweighs the amount paid in fraudulent claims. The two amounts are 20% of the TOTAL he said was being paid out in fraudulent claims (he quoted half a BILLION).

He says the check points help save, on average, €900K per year. Do they factor in personnel, overtime, etc, etc. for these checks into that saving?

gunny123 · 11-06-2017 7:50pm

Cass wrote: »

I've seen customs, revenue and Garda ones on a regular basis, but the Dole "on patrol" is a new one to me.

Given his opinions on the unemployed this is right up Varadkars (careful now) street. He lied about the amount involved in welfare fraud, and neglected to say the amount given out by the department in mistaken payments actually far outweighs the amount paid in fraudulent claims. The two amounts are 20% of the TOTAL he said was being paid out in fraudulent claims (he quoted half a BILLION).

He says the check points help save, on average, €900K per year. Do they factor in personnel, overtime, etc, etc. for these checks into that saving?

He's a loose cannon, a mouthpiece and loves the limelight (who'd have thunk it :rolleyes:). I don't think it will be too long before FF chuck him under the bus, the sooner the better.

Why doesn't he go after the crooked councillors and td's and other public servants first ? Rather than people scratching around for a few extra bob at the bottom of society. I know a north dublin former minister for finance and taoseach, without a bank account that wouldn't stand up to much serious scrutiny.

Sparks · 11-06-2017 7:53pm

The checkpoints might catch that much, but it'd be because Customs and other bodies use them. Hard to see how social welfare could save that much when they find a total of about 300 cases per year that need actual court cases or the Gardai to sort out (ie. are suspected to be serious fraud rather than errors).

And that's after the telephone hotline drops over 20,000 "tips" in to them. Each of which takes time to review, time which costs us €20/hr. And it's been 300 or so per year for over a decade now, and the introduction of the "shop your neighbours" line didn't increase the number, it just doubled the workload.

You'd think he'd get his priorities a bit straighter given how much is about to hit the fan up north.

ezra_ · 11-06-2017 9:41pm

Cass wrote: »

I've seen customs, revenue and Garda ones on a regular basis, but the Dole "on patrol" is a new one to me.

They had checks on the M7 and M1 a few times before - mainly stopping vans, making sure that the person on it wasn't on the dole.

Don't think it is a Varadkar thing as this was a couple of years ago.

Cass · 11-06-2017 10:48pm

ezra_ wrote: »

Don't think it is a Varadkar thing as this was a couple of years ago.

My point is he has a bee in his bonnet about welfare. He is the one lying about the figures, encouraging people to shop people suspected of it (which only leads to fake calls as people use the report service to cause grief for others), trying to draw attention to it while completely ignoring, as Sparks pointed out, other more serious issues that a Taoiseach should be paying attention to.

Of the top of my head:

The homeless crisis (7,000 families, and 200,000 children homeless and/or under the poverty line)
Rampant corruption in financial institutions. Some allegedly involving current and former Ministers & TDs.
Former CEOs of banks walking free after millions or Euro and years of a Mickey Mouse court fiasco.
Rampant corruption within the political system
A police force that has lost any form of credibility and the trust of the public with a Commissioner that is under many different investigations/allegations of corruption/misconduct and a force that has repeatedly lied and bastardisd figures (drink driving, firearms, crime stats, etc)
Corruption within the welfare/housing departments by staff. The most recent being in Galway where staff were allocating houses to themselves and either living in them while they rented their own or renting out the house and pocketing the money.

Also, and this is something i need answered as i don't know, what authority do the dole have to question someone on the road. If a Garda stops you then according to the road traffic act you must only supply your name and drivers license. If its taxed, NCT'd/DOE'd and insured then no offence has been committed so according to the law you are under no obligation to answer any questions according to section 2.

Now this relates to An Gardaí who have to be there as the revenue and customs have no power of arrest. So what power has any welfare officer got? What can they ask you, and what can they demand?

It stinks of the sh* that used to go on in the early 80s. When a welfare staff member would ask you how you can afford a TV, a car, carpet in your home. It was wrong/illegal then and it is now.

ezra_ · 12-06-2017 6:37am

Cass wrote: »

Also, and this is something i need answered as i don't know, what authority do the dole have to question someone on the road. If a Garda stops you then according to the road traffic act you must only supply your name and drivers license. If its taxed, NCT'd/DOE'd and insured then no offence has been committed so according to the law you are under no obligation to answer any questions according to section 2.

Now this relates to An Gardaí who have to be there as the revenue and customs have no power of arrest. So what power has any welfare officer got? What can they ask you, and what can they demand?

It stinks of the sh* that used to go on in the early 80s. When a welfare staff member would ask you how you can afford a TV, a car, carpet in your home. It was wrong/illegal then and it is now.

From the 2005 Act:

Section 250(16)

"A social welfare inspector may, for the purposes of ensuring compliance with this Act, if accompanied by a member of the Garda Sochna in uniform -

stop any vehicle which he or she reasonably suspects is used in the course of employment or self employment, and
on production of his or her certificate of appointment, where so requested, question and make enquiries of any person in the vehicle or require that person to give to the social welfare inspector any record relating to his or her employment or self employment which the person has possession of in the vehicle and examine it."

I don't think you need to answer any questions they ask you, but if you have job dockets etc lying about, it would seem they can take them.

Grizzly 45 · 12-06-2017 11:44pm

Cass wrote: »

M

Also, and this is something i need answered as i don't know, what authority do the dole have to question someone on the road. If a Garda stops you then according to the road traffic act you must only supply your name and drivers license. If its taxed, NCT'd/DOE'd and insured then no offence has been committed so according to the law you are under no obligation to answer any questions according to section 2.

Now this relates to An Gardaí who have to be there as the revenue and customs have no power of arrest. So what power has any welfare officer got? What can they ask you, and what can they demand?

It stinks of the sh* that used to go on in the early 80s. When a welfare staff member would ask you how you can afford a TV, a car, carpet in your home. It was wrong/illegal then and it is now.

Intresting wonder how well that act would stand up in EUCHR or supreme court? As it is profiling in extremisis...Be the same as being stopped because you have an all year Phil Lynott sun tan,and they suspect you might be an adherent of the religion of peace... There isnt even a "plain view " doctrine here..IOW if you have job dockets or tools or whatever in plain view to give grounds of suspicion to question

As any good defence lawyers will tell you .The best advice is SHUT THE F£$ K UP! And as they said in the Xfiles,Admit nothing,deny everything..
You are under NO obligation to answer any questions by any of those organisations bar the AGS for the purpose of ID in relation to a vechicle stop.
Everything else is silence or "No comment."
Also,keep the ol cell phone camera running and pointed out the window.You DO want video evidence of what occured.

gunny123 · 13-06-2017 12:27am

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

As any good defence lawyers will tell you .The best advice is SHUT THE F£$ K UP! And as they said in the Xfiles,Admit nothing,deny everything..
You are under NO obligation to answer any questions by any of those organisations bar the AGS for the purpose of ID in relation to a vechicle stop.
Everything else is silence or "No comment."

Wasn't it the Iron duke, old Arthur Wellesley, who said "Never explain, never apologise". Good advice when dealing with those in office.

Nekarsulm · 13-06-2017 1:04am

It's 2 years since there was a 3 agency checkpoint at our local livestock Mart.
Every car and jeep in the place was dipped for diesel by Customs, Gardai checked tax and insurance etc and Dept Social welfare demanded PPS numbers and herd numbers of everyone.

ezra_ · 13-06-2017 7:41am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

It's 2 years since there was a 3 agency checkpoint at our local livestock Mart.
Every car and jeep in the place was dipped for diesel by Customs, Gardai checked tax and insurance etc and Dept Social welfare demanded PPS numbers and herd numbers of everyone.

What would Social Welfare folk need herd numbers for?

Nekarsulm · 13-06-2017 8:21am

A percentage of farmers work full time in other industries, due to the fact that many farms which raised generations of families are now unviable, size wise.

ezra_ · 13-06-2017 9:07am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

A percentage of farmers work full time in other industries, due to the fact that many farms which raised generations of families are now unviable, size wise.

And you aren't allowed work if you have a herd number?!

Nekarsulm · 13-06-2017 10:24am

You have it the wrong way around. Anyone can get a herd number if they satisfy the Dept.Ag that they have adequate housing and handling facilities.
But the reason they were checking was to try and find people who were out of full time employment and receiving job seekers, but possibly hadn't disclosed animal sales when filling out a statement of means.

ezra_ · 13-06-2017 10:40am

Nekarsulm wrote: »

You have it the wrong way around. Anyone can get a herd number if they satisfy the Dept.Ag that they have adequate housing and handling facilities.
But the reason they were checking was to try and find people who were out of full time employment and receiving job seekers, but possibly hadn't disclosed animal sales when filling out a statement of means.

Got you.

gunny123 · 13-06-2017 7:25pm

I knew several farmers who had fairly decent sized farms, but who all set off for the local cop shop on a friday morning to sign on for the dole. The "farmers dole" it was refered to. This was a few years back, early 90's. Does this still go on ?

Nekarsulm · 13-06-2017 7:49pm

It does. It would typically be someone with 30 or so acres, and a low income.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/farming_and_fishing/farm_assist.html

Sparks · 14-06-2017 11:21am

And that kind of misunderstanding is why Welfare gets 20,000 calls a year but only finds 300 cases that merit an actual investigation or court case.

cavan shooter · 14-06-2017 10:52pm

Sparks wrote: »

And that kind of misunderstanding is why Welfare gets 20,000 calls a year but only finds 300 cases that merit an actual investigation or court case.

Assume its the burden of proof and also some of those calls could be vexatious.

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Off Topic Chat. (MOD NOTE post# 3949 and post#5279)

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