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Bell Etiquette

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13

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    #62
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭plodder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Not sure whether I mentioned it in this thread, but The Unbelievable Truth had a bit about the original law in the UK, repealed in the 1930s IIRC, which was that cyclists were supposed to ring the bell *constantly* while in motion. I guess it was based on the bike being the quietest form of transport that was also potentially pretty fast.
    That sounds a bit like the law that required a man to walk in front of motorised vehicles waving a red flag.

    Have to say as well I find motorists who give a warning beep when passing cyclists to be extremely irritating, but thankfully very few do it.


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    #63
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,148 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    Not sure whether I mentioned it in this thread, but The Unbelievable Truth had a bit about the original law in the UK, repealed in the 1930s IIRC, which was that cyclists were supposed to ring the bell *constantly* while in motion. I guess it was based on the bike being the quietest form of transport that was also potentially pretty fast.

    That's how lollipop sticks stuck through the brake bracket and into the spokes came about. Necessity before coolness. Fact.


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    #64
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭plodder


    Hurrache wrote: »
    That's how lollipop sticks stuck through the brake bracket and into the spokes came about. Necessity before coolness. Fact.
    I seem to remember experiments as a kid with playing cards and clothes pegs.


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    #65
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,363 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    buffalo wrote: »
    My experience of using my voice usually involves waiting until I'm right behind a person and then giving them a fright and causing general confusion and some awkwardness on the part of the other person (and occasionally getting given out to for not using a bell). Giving ample warning would involve shouting at them, which I obviously don't want to do.
    .
    There is a real quandary here as to whether you're better off letting them know that you're coming up behind or not. If you do let them know, either by calling or by ringing, there is a chance, albeit a small one, of them panicking and jumping into your planned path. If you do nothing and just given them enough room, you have more control over the manoeuvre and less risk. I'm never quite sure.



    I've found the bell fairly effective in getting people to move over the shared path coming up from Balally Luas. Some people are all iPodded up and don't hear anything.


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    #66
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    I usually ring three times - when I'm a good way behind, when I'm nearish & when I'm about to pass. If people are offended I'm sorry; they'd be sorrier if they suddenly wandered right and had a fat cyclist and bike on them.


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    #67
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    The correct etiquette is a polite call of "on your right" just before you over take.

    It has always been thus.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #68
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Brian? wrote: »
    The correct etiquette is a polite call of "on your right" just before you over take.

    It has always been thus.

    Has it so? I've been cycling for 64 years but have only heard this term in the last couple of years. When I was a sprog I was taught to ring a bell.


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    #69
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Has it so? I've been cycling for 64 years but have only heard this term in the last couple of years. When I was a sprog I was taught to ring a bell.

    I assume 'on your right' is a cycle club/sport thing?

    On a basic level, I still don't get why people think they have a God-given right to squeeze up the side of any cyclist who is going slower than they would like.

    Unless there is oodles of space for you to just sail past (no bell required) it is up to the person in front to 'allow' you to pass. When cycling, or driving, I'm aware of what/who is behind me and whether they are coming up fast, being overly aggressive etc.
    In both cases, if there is space, and I want to let them pass me, I will pull over to the left hand side of my lane and make it pretty clear by my position and movement that I am cool with them over-taking if they want.

    Cyclist don't have rear-view mirrors, but we do have rotating heads, and no pillars in our way. If a cyclist is struggling along slowly with no awareness of who is around them, a spandex warrior ringing a bell at them is the equivalent of a truck honking at a Learner driver. Nobody benefits.

    There are some scenarios where a little ding of thanks, look out etc makes sense; but mostly where the other person already knows you exist.

    Can't we all just get along. Save your bell for the pedestrians and drivers (or a cyclist in the wrong maybe) :D


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    #70
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Has it so? I've been cycling for 64 years but have only heard this term in the last couple of years. When I was a sprog I was taught to ring a bell.

    It has for the last 35 years anyway.

    But I’ve never owned a bike with a bell.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #71
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Has it so? I've been cycling for 64 years but have only heard this term in the last couple of years. When I was a sprog I was taught to ring a bell.

    On your right is rarely used outside of club/race settings. i notice a few people saying it on commutes but this only over the last few years. It seems to typically have the affect of making the person being shouted at sway to the right as they look around them.

    It would appear to be like many of the suggestions on this thread as an excuse not to slow down or give distance while passing.


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    #72
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    CramCycle wrote: »
    On your right is rarely used outside of club/race settings. i notice a few people saying it on commutes but this only over the last few years. It seems to typically have the affect of making the person being shouted at sway to the right as they look around them.

    It would appear to be like many of the suggestions on this thread as an excuse not to slow down or give distance while passing.

    If you're shouting at someone, you're doing it wrong. It's a polite announcement that you're coming up so the rider in front doesn't spook as you get into their peripheral vision. Absolutely you should give distance when passing, but why would you slow down to pass?

    I would say nothing in a race, haven't raced in 20 years, or in a club setting. in both scenarios you're in a group, so there's no need to alert people to your presence. I will admit to shouting at people in races in the past, mainly out of fear.


    Since moving to the Netherlands, I have replaced it with a polite "hallo" as this seems to be the most common thing to say here. People here only use the bell at pedestrians, rarely at other cyclists.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #73
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Brian? wrote: »
    If you're shouting at someone, you're doing it wrong. It's a polite announcement that you're coming up so the rider in front doesn't spook as you get into their peripheral vision. Absolutely you should give distance when passing, but why would you slow down to pass?
    Slowing down for pedestrians in the main, but for a cyclist it might be too make sure they know you are there and are ready for you to pass.
    I would say nothing in a race, haven't raced in 20 years, or in a club setting. in both scenarios you're in a group, so there's no need to alert people to your presence. I will admit to shouting at people in races in the past, mainly out of fear.
    Mainly for people changing their lines without warning, or you can tell they haven't copped you and are about to switch out in front of you, not for general overtaking obviously, shure there would be no peace if that was the case.
    Since moving to the Netherlands, I have replaced it with a polite "hallo" as this seems to be the most common thing to say here. People here only use the bell at pedestrians, rarely at other cyclists.
    In Ireland, if you come up behind someone and say Hello, it sounds sarcastic as they are facing away from you, say excuse me, it acknowledges their right to be there and you asking to come around, again, mainly for pedestrian/cyclist interactions.
    I use a "sorry" or "excuse me" in a nice friendly tone. The reason you would slow down, is for me anyway, my commuting speed in recent times varies between 15kmph and 50kmph, coming past someone at 50k an hour with a polite excuse me, why bother saying anything at all. On a main road I just move out and give enough space, on a shared space or similar, i slow down because you never know how someone might react. If I slow, most people hear my freewheel so they are expecting it but if I do it right, when I get close, I can say excuse me or sorry, typically they will move slightly over and I just have to say thank you, the reason for slowing here is even when expected, passing at speed, for some can be an uncomfortable experience.


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    #74
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Brian? wrote: »
    It has for the last 35 years anyway.

    But I’ve never owned a bike with a bell.

    Legally, you're supposed to have a bell if you're riding on the public road.


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    #75
    Corca Baiscinn
    Registered Users Posts: 643 ✭✭✭Corca Baiscinn


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Legally, you're supposed to have a bell if you're riding on the public road.

    Afaik doesn't apply to road bikes so they need to stick with the "on your right".


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    #76
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Legally, you're supposed to have a bell if you're riding on the public road.

    Unless you are in a race or training for a race is the caveat to that law. So every time I go out on my "racing" bike I am exempt.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #77
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    Brian? wrote: »
    Unless you are in a race or training for a race is the caveat to that law. So every time I go out on my "racing" bike I am exempt.
    I hope you are prepared to argue that one in court!


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    #78
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    homer911 wrote: »
    I hope you are prepared to argue that one in court!

    You think that'll ever happen? I don't. Even if I did, I can show my CI racing licence and walk.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #79
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭plodder


    The original regulation from 1963 said that bikes constructed or adapted for racing were exempt. It didn't depend (by my reading) on whether you were actually racing or training for racing. I don't know if that regulation was ever updated. Though at the same time, a bell is hardly that big a deal. I'd be surprised if bike shops would sell any bike without one.


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    #80
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    plodder wrote: »
    The original regulation from 1963 said that bikes constructed or adapted for racing were exempt. It didn't depend (by my reading) on whether you were actually racing or training for racing. I don't know if that regulation was ever updated. Though at the same time, a bell is hardly that big a deal. I'd be surprised if bike shops would sell any bike without one.

    No shop sells a road bike with a bell, to the best of my knowledge. I seriously question how useful bells are full stop. A shout is far more effective.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #81
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭plodder


    Brian? wrote: »
    No shop sells a road bike with a bell, to the best of my knowledge. I seriously question how useful bells are full stop. A shout is far more effective.
    I guess we are both going from anecdotal evidence. But, Halfords does ... or did .. in my case.


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    #82
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,403 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Brian? wrote: »
    No shop sells a road bike with a bell, to the best of my knowledge. I seriously question how useful bells are full stop. A shout is far more effective.
    Personally hearing a shout would just confuse me, but hearing a bell would trigger an instant association with a bike.


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    #83
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,469 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    jim o doom wrote: »
    I think the majority of people simply overtake. Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

    They will be aware you are overtaking them when you go past them, same as every other mode of transport. There is also no need to shout at them either. Just signal as necessary and overtake.

    Look at it this way; how often do you see overtaking cyclists make any indication to the person they are overtaking? For me it is never. I'd be confused as to why someone was ringing their bell at me when they overtook.

    Cars have mirrors though.

    I do think there is an ego thing at play with the cyclist in front getting annoyed; its not saying get out of the way, its simply saying I'm coming past, and from a safety point of view that can only be a good thing.


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    #84
    homer911
    Registered Users Posts: 5,113 ✭✭✭homer911


    plodder wrote: »
    Though at the same time, a bell is hardly that big a deal. I'd be surprised if bike shops would sell any bike without one.

    Don't want to drag off topic, but a rear reflector is also required by law but it seems almost all bikes are being sold without one and I'd have thought this was of greater importance


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    #85
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    I think its one of those weird differences between UK and Irish law. UK require all bikes to be sold with a bell, it is probably less compliant now but that was the law, but there was no legal requirement to have one. We are the opposite, no legal requirement to sell a bike with one but there is a legal requirement to have one, with said exceptions, maybe can someone can correct me or confirm.


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    #86
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    I would have thought that was the whole point of a bell. To use so as to alert people.

    Sure if you are cycling behind a pedestrian and they do not realise you are there and step in front of you causing a collision they will be first out ranting that you made no noise or used your bell...:rolleyes:

    I run a lot in a park with cyclists and they will ring their bell if coming up behind us. I am glad of it as I may veer suddenly across the road/path depending on the surface.


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    #87
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    jim o doom wrote: »
    I think the majority of people simply overtake. Cars don't beep at each other when they are overtaking and pedestrians don't shout or speak when overtaking other pedestrians.. why would you ring a bell at someone?

    They will be aware you are overtaking them when you go past them, same as every other mode of transport. There is also no need to shout at them either. Just signal as necessary and overtake.

    Look at it this way; how often do you see overtaking cyclists make any indication to the person they are overtaking? For me it is never. I'd be confused as to why someone was ringing their bell at me when they overtook.


    So what do you think the purpose of a bell is?

    Comparing it to overtaking cars is just wrong on so many levels.


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    #88
    DavyD_83
    Registered Users Posts: 1,991 ✭✭✭DavyD_83


    partyguinness wrote: »
    So what do you think the purpose of a bell is?

    Comparing it to overtaking cars is just wrong on so many levels.

    To alert others to get out (and/or stay out) of your way when they should not be where they are, or look like they are going to drift into your way.

    My main objection to the ringing from behind is that IMO it implies you have more right to the road/path than the person in front.

    Murp, going in circles at this stage. I'm out :rolleyes:


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    #89
    partyguinness
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    DavyD_83 wrote: »
    To alert others to get out (and/or stay out) of your way when they should not be where they are, or look like they are going to drift into your way.

    My main objection to the ringing from behind is that IMO it implies you have more right to the road/path than the person in front.


    In your eyes it is ok to say 'Get out of my way etc' from the front but not from behind. There is no logic in that whatsoever. It is infinitely more dangerous from behind.

    It does not imply that at all from behind. It is you that is making that inference as a matter of personal interpretation. Others see as a means of notifying a walker that I am behind you in case they suddenly walk out in front.

    It isn't a case of 'Get out of my way pleb'. Simply "Take note- I am cycling behind you."


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    #90
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,126 ✭✭✭plodder


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I think its one of those weird differences between UK and Irish law. UK require all bikes to be sold with a bell, it is probably less compliant now but that was the law, but there was no legal requirement to have one. We are the opposite, no legal requirement to sell a bike with one but there is a legal requirement to have one, with said exceptions, maybe can someone can correct me or confirm.
    .. which may be why Halfords provides them as standard.


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    #91
    CollyFlower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,996 ✭✭✭CollyFlower


    Brian? wrote: »
    No shop sells a road bike with a bell, to the best of my knowledge. I seriously question how useful bells are full stop. A shout is far more effective.

    You can't even get mudgards when buying a bike now... Regarding, Bicycle bells, do people still use the 'ding-ding` ones, the ones that can't be heard in traffic?.. I have a an alarm like one, (battery powered) it's like a siren, when pressed it alerts everyone and no one is sure where the sound is coming from..


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