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Back to Education Teachers and Tutors BTEI Contracts Urgent

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Comments

  • #32
    Mayberry
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Mayberry


    I am sorry for hijacking this board but there are so many similarities between our situation and BTEI teachers.

    Without giving too much away I work as a teacher in a centre teaching LC , JC , third level and occasionally national school children. I am a fully qualified and registered with the teaching council. The things I have in common with BTEI teachers are:

    1. I am not called a teacher anymore- I have been given the title "instructor"
    2. My work has been made casual- no guaranteed days of work . It could be 5 days in one week and nothing for a month.
    3. I am unable to secure a bank loan or mortgage as despite having savings I am declined on the basis of irregular income
    4. No contract
    5. I work for an ETB
    6. Constant promise of permanent work despite there being 6 others in my job doing the same thing and they looking to employ more part time staff. Constant carrot of contract put up for last decade .
    7. The job requires a degree (teaching qualification is desired but not necessary despite the fact we all follow a curriculum and teach on a daily basis )
    8. No pension to be given (no sick pay , leave, etc).
    9. All at work have a love for their job like the people posting on this thread

    The only difference is we are paid a daily rate instead of hourly (96 per day) for 8-4 (no breaks).

    I am interested to see how the BTEI teachers fare in making your voices heard. I wish everyone all the best and hope you all get A positive outcome. It is interesting to note the casualisation of staff across both the public and private sector in the past 10 years. I would never have known your stories unless I came across this thread.


  • #33
    Ace head
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Ace head


    Mayberry wrote: »
    I am sorry for hijacking this board but there are so many similarities between our situation and BTEI teachers.

    Without giving too much away I work as a teacher in a centre teaching LC , JC , third level and occasionally national school children. I am a fully qualified and registered with the teaching council. The things I have in common with BTEI teachers are:

    1. I am not called a teacher anymore- I have been given the title "instructor"
    2. My work has been made casual- no guaranteed days of work . It could be 5 days in one week and nothing for a month.
    3. I am unable to secure a bank loan or mortgage as despite having savings I am declined on the basis of irregular income
    4. No contract
    5. I work for an ETB
    6. Constant promise of permanent work despite there being 6 others in my job doing the same thing and they looking to employ more part time staff. Constant carrot of contract put up for last decade .
    7. The job requires a degree (teaching qualification is desired but not necessary despite the fact we all follow a curriculum and teach on a daily basis )
    8. No pension to be given (no sick pay , leave, etc).
    9. All at work have a love for their job like the people posting on this thread

    The only difference is we are paid a daily rate instead of hourly (96 per day) for 8-4 (no breaks).

    I am interested to see how the BTEI teachers fare in making your voices heard. I wish everyone all the best and hope you all get A positive outcome. It is interesting to note the casualisation of staff across both the public and private sector in the past 10 years. I would never have known your stories unless I came across this thread.

    Hi Mayberry
    It is a definite policy of keeping people at low hours so as to avoid permanency or employment rights but there are rules around what constitutes teaching. Are you joined s Union? You need to do that. There is no other way to have these issues addressed i'm afraid


  • #34
    xtralong
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭xtralong


    Ace head wrote: »
    Going forward there will never be teachers jobs advertised in either youthreach or BTEI. It will be 'resource persons' who must be qualified teachers, teach class AND do admin the rest of your 35 hour week.

    In the Youthreach centre that I'm familiar with, tutors were converted to teachers and they went in on point 1 (despite some teaching for almost a decade). This was incremental for qualified teachers, non incremental for unqualified. Eligibility for qualified status required Teaching Council registration (no HDip required). The ETB is adamant that all future hours will be 'resource person' hours not teaching hours, even if a teacher leaves or retires. This leaves part time teaching staff effectively beached on part time hours with no possibility for progression. Oh and I should mention the TUI brokered and approved this deal. I'd imagine the BTEI conversion process will be something similar.


  • #35
    xtralong
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭xtralong


    Ace head wrote: »
    It's hard to believe any trade union would allow this to happen 😔

    Indeed it is. Imagine if this happened in second level schools.


  • #36
    Mayberry
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Mayberry


    Ace head wrote: »
    Hi Mayberry
    It is a definite policy of keeping people at low hours so as to avoid permanency or employment rights but there are rules around what constitutes teaching. Are you joined s Union? You need to do that. There is no other way to have these issues addressed i'm afraid

    Thanks I will join this week and hopefully start making progress


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  • #37
    eire236
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭eire236


    Hi all

    James, your post echoes my thoughts exactly. Well said. It's obvious there are many of us in the same situation, yet afraid to speak up as our positions are so fragile and in effect we are in competition with each other. I too love my job, have been doing it for years and yet it is not recognised as a job at all. Fed up travelling to meetings and training and not getting any pay, sometimes even on a Saturday! I'm broke after the summer. The worst aspect is the number of hours of work done at home. I used to complain about the preparation I had to do for a class. Now, that is done in 5 minutes and hours spent on administration. No progression at all. I've joined the TUI and will be asking them questions soon. This the only way - via the union.
    Let's spread the news!


  • #38
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    It's not beyond the powers of a TD to ask a question in the Dail (whatever good that will do!) but it might get some traction on the issue.
    If everyone in different constituencies got on to a few local TD's then someone might bite if there's a vote or two in it. Go to a local clinic and tell your story for what it's worth. https://www.whoismytd.com/
    As regards TUI, it's a matter of going to the meetings and getting a motion going. I don't know the process of doing this but I think it would be better than ringing the head office or emailing in your concerns.


  • #39
    Ace head
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Ace head


    I agree with Pandora. TD's have been contacted in the past and to be frank the only thing that is working is TUI. This is likely because they have taken rights commissioner cases. I also know of a couple of teachers who have gone privately to rights commissioners/labour court but it took them longer as their decisions were not implemented. We all have to get behind the tui becaue they can only be as effective as the numbers behind them and the stories behind these numbers. In every other education sector it is a fool who isn't in their union.... you're boss is.


  • #40
    ROYGBIV
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭ROYGBIV


    Great thread. I've been in contact with tui about btei contracts in the past year or so and would recommend getting in touch with them and being persistent with them. If contracts are coming through any idea what exactly they will entail?


  • #41
    Ladyrunrunrun
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Ladyrunrunrun


    Great post.... Can anyone suggest a kind of generic email we could all email TUI?? That way we could also email local TD too..... I'd do it straight away if anyone here could give suggestions as to content.. I'd be very grateful. Thanks.


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  • #42
    Ace head
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Ace head


    Hi Ladyrunrunrun,, that is a great idea. I think the content should draw attention to the fact that teachers working in adult education have been denied their rights for many years, this is in contravention of employment law (equal pay for equal work, a right to a contract, terms & conditions and a right to permanency after doing a job for a certain length of time), proposals now being considered are attempting to draw a line in the sand and pretend that these workers have not been subject to conditions that would not be tolerated in private industry but are in ETB's. Hope others contribute too.


  • #43
    jazster
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭jazster


    This thread says all of what many in adult literacy/basic education tutors are also feeling. Albeit, a separate area with its own anomalies, there are similarities here. Most relevant though, the frustration is the same and the lack of unity across centres and among staff keeps us all scared for our positions. Very unfair. Many teachers/tutors/instructors work across different programmes to build up hours, and many also work outside of ETB centres to prop up income.I agree completely with all of the above advice to join the TUI and to make yourselves heard. We've been waiting patiently and the carrot of CID contracts aren't worth a damn in real terms.


  • #44
    Liam lll
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Liam lll


    Well all.. i have a quick question to ask if anyone could help with. I have been working as a BTEI tutor for several years on part time contracts etc. I am a fully qualified secondary teacher and still work in both areas. I qualified in 2009 and worked firstly only in secondary schools. So i am on the pre 2011 pay scale for secondary teachers scale. however I only started working as a tutor in 2011 so I was put onto the post 2011 pay scale for BTEI tutors. Does anyone know if this was correct in my circumstances?? Sorry if this is not the place to post this. thanks


  • #45
    mammabee
    Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭mammabee


    Hi I am in the same position as everyone else here, with a slight twist. I work as resource in youthreach and we too have various different contracts in our centre. We have qualified and non qualified teachers and then we have resource staff. I am part time resource but I still work 26 hours a week for what seems like a pittance. We are the absolute slaves of the industry. The other teachers pity us! (I am a qualified teacher, registered and was told it will be resource contracts only from now on) more admin, more hours, more working days per year. I also teach BTEI classes on Fridays, no contract. It helps my salary and I miss it when it's the holidays. It's exhausting trying to manage it all and worse is its so disheartening. I have friends who never went to college earning more in factory jobs! It's so wrong. I am joining the union but really wonder if it will help!


  • #46
    xtralong
    Registered Users Posts: 69 ✭✭xtralong


    mammabee wrote: »
    We have qualified and non qualified teachers and then we have resource staff. I am part time resource but I still work 26 hours a week for what seems like a pittance. We are the absolute slaves of the industry. The other teachers pity us!

    100% correct, the worst terms and conditions in the education sector. Blatant exploitation of qualified teachers. If this was happening in mainstream schools there would be strikes.
    mammabee wrote: »
    I am joining the union but really wonder if it will help!

    The union seem very reluctant to do anything meaningful to solve the issue. I genuinely can't figure out why, they acknowledge the issues but do nothing. There seems to be a policy of ignoring the issues and hoping that they go away. That being said, it is important that you and your colleagues attend branch meetings and voice your discontent at every possible opportunity. Email them regularly asking for updates and what they plan to do.

    There are a few other threads on this board that discuss the issues in greater depth:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99736699
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100355180


  • #47
    Ace head
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭Ace head


    It looks like a circular is imminent regarding the 'conversion' to teacher contracts for BTEI 'tutors'. nobody that I have spoken to is hopeful that this will solve the issues expressed on this thread, especially for teachers who have served for many years, claiming their hours as 'part-time teachers' and now being told they were never teachers.... they are getting 'converted' now! its well beyond a joke and I would say if the union do not address this issue there will be wholesale movement to private legal redress.


  • #48
    eire236
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭eire236


    We just got an email from work (an ETB) asking us to fill out a TUI survey. I haven't done it yet but think it includes number of hours worked over previous years. Can't believe something is actually happening on this. I had rang and emailed TUI previously but got no response. Going to try again re previous years' service.


  • #49
    eire236
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭eire236


    Finally got talking to TUI and he said they are gathering information to negotiate for recognition of teacher status and proper contracts.

    I mentioned other issues ie recognition of previous service, non paid creation of programmes at home, admin work unpaid and done at home, no sick pay or pensions scheme.

    He said they will work for status and contracts and then deal with other issues on a case by case basis at a later point.

    Let's see what happens. The survey seems to be for all ETB "Tutors" to complete.


  • #50
    ustazjoseph
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ustazjoseph


    The TUI news has a reference to a conversion process for btei tutors. This will mainly help,TC registered people with CID s but it's a beginning. Keep going to meetings. Many regional reps are from second level and in fairness don't always get the complexity. If there is someone at every meeting to articulate concerns and keep issues on the agenda eventually there will be some improvement. These things move slowly .


  • #51
    Ladyrunrunrun
    Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭Ladyrunrunrun


    Is there any updates on this? Has anyone been converted yet?


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  • #52
    eire236
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭eire236


    No, we got a letter saying the conversion would take place, two years ago! It said another letter would be sent out with details. Since then, nothing. So disheartening. New people have been employed and fewer hours for more experienced teachers.


  • #53
    sarah foo
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭sarah foo


    Any updates with anyone since? I'm waiting to see if I am eligible for conversion... I'm a fully qualified teacher and teaching Leaving Cert in the subject I'm qualified to teach yet classed as a tutor... I'm not with BTEI but my colleagues are being converted from previous btei jobs without the teaching qualifications. Can I do the same? I worked in Btei for a year (2014-2015) yet never received this famous letter offering conversion


  • #54
    ustazjoseph
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ustazjoseph


    talk to local union or area rep. its a slow proce4ss and some ETBs are slower than others.


  • #55
    C.J.L.
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭C.J.L.


    According to TUI monthly magazine, conversions have started and some completed in Laois Offaly ETB. Still only talking in WWETB as far as I know.


  • #56
    emilymemily
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭emilymemily


    Hi, im curious about this. I was under the impression that to get teacher status adult educators had to complete the Hdip in Further education? This was brought in in 2013 and FE teachers where given a number of years to complete this.
    I completed it myself as have many FE teachers and although I have no problem with those who havnt completed it getting teacher status, I do feel disheartened and angry as I spent 6 thousand on this course, the course was good but I could have easily gotten by without it and wouldnt have completed it if id known it wouldnt be needed. Has anyone heard about this? tbh im personally fuming that we were told to complete it only for them to go back on their word and give the teacher status to all tutors. Its not fair, I struggled to get the money together for that course and now it seems it was all for nothing. I dont understand why they think its ok to treat educators in this way.


  • #57
    KAGY
    Registered Users Posts: 1,089 ✭✭✭KAGY


    emilymemily wrote: »
    Hi, im curious about this. I was under the impression that to get teacher status adult educators had to complete the Hdip in Further education? This was brought in in 2013 and FE teachers where given a number of years to complete this.
    I completed it myself as have many FE teachers and although I have no problem with those who havnt completed it getting teacher status, I do feel disheartened and angry as I spent 6 thousand on this course, the course was good but I could have easily gotten by without it and wouldnt have completed it if id known it wouldnt be needed. Has anyone heard about this? tbh im personally fuming that we were told to complete it only for them to go back on their word and give the teacher status to all tutors. Its not fair, I struggled to get the money together for that course and now it seems it was all for nothing. I dont understand why they think its ok to treat educators in this way.

    AFAIK, there's 3 options, get HDip and convert to teacher; be a resource worker (35hr week) or stay as you were ( typically paid as unqualified part time, no increments)


  • #58
    pocketmo
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭pocketmo


    emilymemily wrote: »
    Hi, im curious about this. I was under the impression that to get teacher status adult educators had to complete the Hdip in Further education? This was brought in in 2013 and FE teachers where given a number of years to complete this.
    I completed it myself as have many FE teachers and although I have no problem with those who havnt completed it getting teacher status, I do feel disheartened and angry as I spent 6 thousand on this course, the course was good but I could have easily gotten by without it and wouldnt have completed it if id known it wouldnt be needed. Has anyone heard about this? tbh im personally fuming that we were told to complete it only for them to go back on their word and give the teacher status to all tutors. Its not fair, I struggled to get the money together for that course and now it seems it was all for nothing. I dont understand why they think its ok to treat educators in this way.

    My understanding, for the past number of years, is that the requirement was to gain recognition with the Teaching Council of Ireland which doesn’t necessarily require an HDip.


  • #59
    emilymemily
    Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭emilymemily


    pocketmo wrote: »
    My understanding, for the past number of years, is that the requirement was to gain recognition with the Teaching Council of Ireland which doesn’t necessarily require an HDip.

    We were told it did require a Hdip and it actually says it in teaching council requirements. If its a situation where theyve claimed this to be mandatory and then gone back on their word after so many of us forked out the thousands of euros on the course, I will be making a serious complaint.


  • #60
    o1aa
    Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭o1aa


    Hi all,

    I want to get into Higher Education teaching and I will complete the Higher diploma in FE.
    If I do it and get a job, will I be recognised as a teacher or will they try to put it under 'tutor'?

    How is the current situation with contracts etc?

    Thanks!


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