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If 12 weeks is not a real baby

  • 09-03-2018 10:58pm
    #1
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭


    If abortion at 12 weeks is ok because it’s not a real baby would it be ok to do crack cocaine for the first ten weeks of your pregnancy then have an abortion?

    If you throw a pregnant woman down the stairs before she is 12 weeks pregnant should you be treated less severely than if she was 15 weeks pregnant?


Comments

  • #2
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Both of your philosophical arguments are wrong regardless of anything else

    But troll away with your anti abortion arguments


  • #3
    Day Lewin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,601 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Who was harmed by Thalidomide?


  • #4
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Day Lewin wrote: »
    Who was harmed by Thalidomide?

    Saw a documentary the other day about the massive cover up of that - disgraceful


  • #5
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Both of your philosophical arguments are wrong regardless of anything else

    But troll away with your anti abortion arguments

    I don’t want to discuss abortion. To be honest I probably won’t vote on it. But the 12 week insignificance rule interests me. If you can delete it what else can you do with it.

    Surely this is a philosophy section where we can discuss this without speaking about abortion.


  • #6
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    And yet both of your situations involved a pregnant woman - which regardless would be sneered on or treated exactly the same.
    So if this is not an anti abortion argument then why is the question about pregnant women


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  • #7
    ljy9fn7qwhgasx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ljy9fn7qwhgasx


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    If abortion at 12 weeks is ok because it’s not a real baby would it be ok to do crack cocaine for the first ten weeks of your pregnancy then have an abortion?

    Some people in Ireland already do - mainly in Liverpool and Manchester, though Ireland has its own long history of backstreet abortions in which mother and child both died... And the consequences of drug addiction on mother and child are shattering and widespread, to be sure. But what happens in your curious Week 11 is a mystery to us all.
    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    If you throw a pregnant woman down the stairs before she is 12 weeks pregnant should you be treated less severely than if she was 15 weeks pregnant?
    I wouldn't. I hope you wouldn't either. Why are you implying that I would? Either way, one hopes that if one is convicted of throwing a pregnant woman down the stairs one is punished. As witnessed in the Supreme Court this week, the past 30-odd years of legal opinion is a long record of judges' increasing exasperation with the legal framework they have been handed by glorified county councillors who are afraid of their mandate to debate issues and make laws.


  • #8
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    Maybe I worded my post wrong.
    Say if we took the fetus out but still alive.
    Could we do what we wanted with it as long as we stamped on it before 11 weeks and six days.


  • #9
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Both of your philosophical arguments are wrong regardless of anything else

    But troll away with your anti abortion arguments

    He’s not trolling. I’m afraid that’s representative of the general standard of his posting.

    :(


  • #10
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Maybe I worded my post wrong.
    Say if we took the fetus out but still alive.
    Could we do what we wanted with it as long as we stamped on it before 11 weeks and six days.

    ^^

    See?

    :(


  • #11
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Maybe I worded my post wrong.
    Say if we took the fetus out but still alive.
    Could we do what we wanted with it as long as we stamped on it before 11 weeks and six days.

    It's not alive at 11 weeks in the sense of a conscious aware being, it's a minute blob of stuff (hardly even recognisable as a human form) - not much more different than a sperm squiggling around that goes to waste every day in their trillions

    And again it comes down to abortions


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  • #12
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    endacl wrote: »
    ^^

    See?

    :(

    But is this not the reasoning?
    It’s not a baby it’s just a fetus arguement. This isn’t after hours. A blue face isn’t really anything of substance.


  • #13
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    But is this not the reasoning?
    It’s not a baby it’s just a fetus arguement. This isn’t after hours. A blue face isn’t really anything of substance.

    Purple. The face is purple.

    Oh, what’s the point...


  • #14
    MayoSalmon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,240 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    fritzelly wrote:
    (hardly even recognisable as a human form) - not much more different than a sperm squiggling around that goes to waste every day in their trillions

    It's heartbeat is fairly recognisable though..


  • #15
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    endacl wrote: »
    Purple. The face is purple.

    Oh, what’s the point...

    So ?
    I’m not sure what you are contributing to the thread


  • #16
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    So ?
    I’m not sure what you are contributing to the thread

    Your thought-provoking and considered thread?

    :(


  • #17
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    MayoSalmon wrote: »
    It's heartbeat is fairly recognisable though..

    So because it's heart is beating that makes it alive? Is that where the mysterious element that makes humans something special lives?

    I can take an heart in any animal and apply electrical current to it and make it beat - is it now alive?


  • #18
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    fritzelly wrote: »
    So because it's heart is beating that makes it alive? Is that where the mysterious element that makes humans something special lives?

    So could we take it out and inject it with heroin because it’s just a blob of cells provided we stamp on it before 12 weeks?


  • #19
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    So could we take it out and inject it with heroin because it’s just a blob of cells provided we stamp on it before 12 weeks?
    Yes. Yes, we could.

    Are you happy now?

    :(


  • #20
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Done with this thread, just a big ol' troll


  • #21
    AlmightyCushion
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 35,041 Mod ✭✭✭✭AlmightyCushion


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    So could we take it out and inject it with heroin because it’s just a blob of cells provided we stamp on it before 12 weeks?

    That's sound logic. Just like we put down animals like dogs and cats so that's why it's perfectly acceptable to inject a puppy full of heroin and stamp it to death.


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  • #22
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    AlmightyCushion wrote: »
    That's sound logic. Just like we put down animals like dogs and cats so that's why it's perfectly acceptable to inject a puppy full of heroin and stamp it to death.

    Ah but a puppy has character a fetus is just a blob of cells.


  • #23
    relax carry on
    Registered Users Posts: 4,071 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    So could we take it out and inject it with heroin because it’s just a blob of cells provided we stamp on it before 12 weeks?

    What happened in your life to make you this way?


  • #24
    ljy9fn7qwhgasx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ljy9fn7qwhgasx


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Ah but a puppy has character a fetus is just a blob of cells.

    How about a puppy foetus? Will that get this disingenuous and dismal thread locked down any sooner?

    Hopefully.


  • #25
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    Lads you seem to just want to throw insults or have the thread locked.
    Is there no discussion in philosophy?


  • #26
    ljy9fn7qwhgasx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ljy9fn7qwhgasx


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Lads you seem to just want to throw insults or have the thread locked.
    Is there no discussion in philosophy?

    If it starts off with genuine philosophical enquiry, yeah.
    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Lads

    Are women welcome to contribute to your thread too?


  • #27
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,221 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Lads you seem to just want to throw insults or have the thread locked.
    Is there no discussion in philosophy?
    What about a sealion foetus?


  • #28
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    Alejandra Fast Superpower wrote: »
    If it starts off with genuine philosophical enquiry, yeah.



    Are women welcome to contribute to your thread too?

    In the country lads is a term for both genders really.


  • #29
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    Guys(gender neutral guys) have we decided that taking the fetus out of the women that don’t want them and playing a game of on the volley with them is ok provided we stamp on them before they are 12 weeks old?


  • #30
    Black Swan
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    MOD: This forum is dedicated to the discussion of philosophy and philosophers. This OP and subsequent posts lacked the depth of content expected in the forum guidelines:
    Black Swan wrote: »
    Forum Guidelines:

    You are encouraged to elaborate upon or challenge a philosophical position, logic, significance, relevance, analytical method, context, interpretation, prediction, historical antecedents, empirical foundation, or comment by a poster...

    Citing philosophers and their works in support of your position taken is greatly encouraged. Links are sometimes helpful too.


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