Belfast Disturbances

Bambi wrote: »

What do you mean by "we in the EU f***ked up? The Irish government, or any other government, knew nothing about it, most of the European Commision knew nothing about it. If by "We, in the EU" you mean a small group of people in the European Commission that appear to have been running Europe solo for the last year f***ed up, you'd be right and thats a bit of a problem.

the EU has very little credibility on protecting the GFA and an open border after that little tantrum Ursula and her pals threw.

Why? What happened to the GFA?

The GFA is as strong as it ever was - fact.

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Could have done with it last night for that f*ckwit that managed to set himself on fire

He'll have to show up at A&E, whatever suspended sentences he likely has will be activated,

Looking at the vaccine roll out the marching season will be back in full swing this year, more carnage.

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I just don't know what the EU expected with such a strict agreement and no compromise. NI is a nation of compromises, it only works that way.

The Protocol is the compromise. We could be much much more strict about the whole thing.

Things are about to get a whole lot worse for British exporters to the EU but not exporters from the north of Ireland. You could say we saved Unionist politicians from themselves.

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

I am resistent to it because I don’t believe in trade barriers with the rest of my country. Some would definitely believe that it’s an attack on the British identity and Union.

- We didn’t get to vote on it.
- Unionist people weren’t consulted.
- Irish cabinet and EU continually talked up Irish nationalist violence but now ignore this.
- There are more checks between NI and GB than anywhere else at EU borders.
- Many feel resentful at the smug remarks from nationalists and others. The current rhetoric is to talk this down. So basically to lie that the protocol has no impact. Well I have seen evidence working in retail, ordering online and shopping. I don’t like politicians who lie.

I think what’s frustrating is the complete lack of flexibility and empathy from the EU on this. They don’t want to help us in NI at all. Despite the humgungous amount of trade.

They will ignore this violence, but have used Irish nationalist violence to support this idea.

I think many just feel that this has been brought in under our feet without any compromise or consultation from the community.

I mean at the end of the day the conservatives decided on this, nobody else.

There is no middle ground. It's zero sum. Border on the island or in the Irish sea. They chose the sea.

A physical border was never going to be put in place and neither part of Ireland voted for Brexit. The consultation was the Brexit referendum. The DUP, dinosaurs they are believed the Tories would never throw them under the bus. Yet they have again and again and again.

Hard to see where the complaints come from.

The people to blame are the tories and the DUP.

There are more important things in life than low taxes. Like nationhood, for example.

We spend too much on frivolous crap in this Country anyway.

The DUP effectively put them in this situation by toadying to the Tories and being full on Brexiteers, not much point in getting all sectarian and going after the 'taigs' who've done nothing to bring this about.

These riots might pass and not escalate though, there's a contrived choreographed aspect to them like previous ones.

Haven't watched the news in days - anyone care to give a one sentence explanation as to whats going on or is it the usual rubbish up there, someone not happy so start a riot?

shtpEdthePlum wrote: »

Does anyone else find the footage of the teenagers who don't have a clue what this is really about chucking petrol bombs at psni and getting set sight absolutely unacceptable?

I think it was eight of the lads arrested for injuring the cops the other night were in their teens.

Why don't the people who are old enough to understand the nuance go and fight if it's so pivotal? Why send in kids?

That's the way it always is.

Did you see Bush or Blair fighting in Iraq?

The sea border is in place because it's easier to run it. The sea border is also in place because it has greater political and economic backing than the land one. Let's think back to Arlene Foster's meeting with NI business leaders a couple of years ago. Foster was annoyed when she realised the consensus was that the proposed backstop of the time was welcome. In 2019, 49 MLAs sent letters of support for the backstop to Donald Tusk. That was a majority of the NI assembly.

Not only that, but the current situation is not even permanent, or at least doesn't have to be, because there is a legal, democratic mechanism to cancel it and go back to the drawing board. No violence needed. So, why violence? Well it's obviously a language that paramilitaries are comfortable with using, but also I have to wonder if Loyalists see no way out of the sea border without violence, i.e. they don't have confidence of getting it voted down.

As I've always said, Brexit, or at least the Brexit as imagined by the ERG types, is incompatible with the GFA because it necessitates a border somewhere as the UK seeks to diverge with the EU on standards. But if a border absolutely has to go somewhere, then it *will* go somewhere, and it went somewhere the DUP do not like. Saying, 'well, Varadkar was threatening that the IRA would start up again if there was a land border" isn't really a point. Both Varadkar and Foster raised concerns of potential violence, but if there's going to be violence wherever this border goes then the point is moot, and it becomes a question of which violence is the more manageable. So far, the violence shown by some hoods in Belfast doesn't exactly rise above the general hum of an average marching season, so no-one really cares.