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How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    downcow wrote: »
    Well of course you are talking nonsense. Both sides have shown little respect to each other, or to each other's culture, identity and sense of belonging. There is no one side to blame for all of this.

    A few uncomfortable home truths isnt nonsense (unionists have run north for 100 years and have only sneered,poured scorn on those they needed to convince to make union secure,no point in blaming anyone else,check.the mirror mate)
    But thankfully it has all been decided, and unless you want to start renegotiating GFA it is very clear. You can jump up and down all you wish, but until there is a majority of people in both jurisdictions who want to try a truly united Island for the first time in history, then it cant happen. And I know it must be very depressing for you that we have had endless predictions over the decades that there would very soon be majority wanting to try this United Island project and yet it seems to keep moving further away from you. The bold Gerry predicted it would be done and dusted by 2016

    You were quiet keen 2 posts ago.to open the gfa and demand x,y and z,despite it not being in it...how is that??
    I have not read the GFA for a very long time, but some of you are expert in it. Could you tell me if this hypothetical situation arose, is it a case that the Republic of Ireland simply absorbs Northern Ireland or do the two countries have to talk about how they unite and what that looks like? Just curious

    Its literally just 32 pages,its early yet,read away mate

    It allows for a border poll,your demanded negociations are entierly hypothectical (imo,they should have them)


    Indeed,if your so sure of a border poll failing,put it to electorate and see


  • #63
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,043 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The thing is,they've tried NI as a country (hasnt and wont work)and unionists will piss over any concessions to nationlists anyway.....

    Its there 100 years and unionists still think so little of nationlists,they wont give a irish language act and their elected representives,just sneer at it....time to pull the plug

    If the so called ‘nationalists’ in the South give so little respect to the Irish language, they can hardly be surprised when the Unionists push back against it.

    I am very proud of the Irish language but ramming it down people’s throats will never work.

    You either want it or you don’t.

    Big deficit in reality here, folks.


  • #64
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Well of course you are talking nonsense. Both sides have shown little respect to each other, or to each other's culture, identity and sense of belonging. There is no one side to blame for all of this.

    But thankfully it has all been decided, and unless you want to start renegotiating GFA it is very clear. You can jump up and down all you wish, but until there is a majority of people in both jurisdictions who want to try a truly united Island for the first time in history, then it cant happen. And I know it must be very depressing for you that we have had endless predictions over the decades that there would very soon be majority wanting to try this United Island project and yet it seems to keep moving further away from you. The bold Gerry predicted it would be done and dusted by 2016

    I have not read the GFA for a very long time, but some of you are expert in it. Could you tell me if this hypothetical situation arose, is it a case that the Republic of Ireland simply absorbs Northern Ireland or do the two countries have to talk about how they unite and what that looks like? Just curious

    It won't be a veto situation downcow like the EU talks, were either side gets to flounce off in a huff if not getting their way.

    That is why it would be utterly suicidal for any side not to take part in the discussions which I think you have said you would be infavour of doing.

    There will be a 'white paper' which will basically be the proposal for a UI that we will vote for or against. If you aren't in the negotiations about that then you can't win.


  • #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    If the so called ‘nationalists’ in the South give so little respect to the Irish language, they can hardly be surprised when the Unionists push back against it.

    I am very proud of the Irish language but ramming it down people’s throats will never work.

    You either want it or you don’t.

    Big deficit in reality here, folks.

    So called nationlists is right,pouring scorn on our language and sports,dont make someone a nationlist


    Unionists think so little of them,they cant even compromise and give a irish language act,100 years in existance and this is reality of those elected to run NI....it deosnt work,and has been by any metric a failure as a country


    Powersharing has been a pointless exercise,an inability to.contence so much as a language act,shows the pure pointlessness of this pretend government,the old dungarvan town council had as much power as stormont


  • #66
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    If the so called ‘nationalists’ in the South give so little respect to the Irish language, they can hardly be surprised when the Unionists push back against it.

    I am very proud of the Irish language but ramming it down people’s throats will never work.

    You either want it or you don’t.

    Big deficit in reality here, folks.

    It was not being rammed down people's throats.


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  • #67
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    A few uncomfortable home truths isnt nonsense (unionists have run north for 100 years and have only sneered,poured scorn on those they needed to convince to make union secure,no point in blaming anyone else,check.the mirror mate)



    You were quiet keen 2 posts ago.to open the gfa and demand x,y and z,despite it not being in it...how is that??



    Its literally just 32 pages,its early yet,read away mate

    It allows for a border poll,your demanded negociations are entierly hypothectical (imo,they should have them)


    Indeed,if your so sure of a border poll failing,put it to electorate and see

    My response to your three very pathetic points above

    I have held the mirror up and accepted that my community have shown very little respect for nationalist culture and identity. It's you that needs to hold the mirror up and accept your community has done the same to Unionist culture and identity.

    Show me where I was "quiet keen 2 posts ago.to open the gfa and demand x,y and z,despite it not being in it"

    I have never asked for negotiations. It is my view that the GFA must be implemented if the conditions are met re- voting. After it is implemented then my community is free to democratically work to get as much autonomy as possible from the rest of the island.


  • #68
    Brendan Bendar
    Registered Users Posts: 19,043 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It was not being rammed down people's throats.

    Joanne Bunting and Edwin Poots might disagree Francesco...and those who voted for them.


  • #69
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So called nationlists is right,pouring scorn on our language and sports,dont make someone a nationlist


    Unionists think so little of them,they cant even compromise and give a irish language act,100 years in existance and this is reality of those elected to run NI....it deosnt work,and has been by any metric a failure as a country


    Powersharing has been a pointless exercise,an inability to.contence so much as a language act,shows the pure pointlessness of this pretend government,the old dungarvan town council had as much power as stormont

    Unionists do not work well with airy fairy fudges.
    I have asked many times in reference to Irish language a few simple yes no questions. But to make it really simple here I will narrow it down to one simple question.
    Would this Irish language act require the placing Irish language signage in areas where the vast majority of residents or employees did not want them? Simple question!


  • #70
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    downcow wrote: »
    My response to your three very pathetic points above

    I have held the mirror up and accepted that my community have shown very little respect for nationalist culture and identity. It's you that needs to hold the mirror up and accept your community has done the same to Unionist culture and identity.

    Nothing patethic about pointing out unionists think so little of nationlists,100 years in and refuse to do so
    Indeed,why if they need nationlists to secure the union have they actively worked to alienate them??

    They have only themselves to blame for time running out on the union
    Show me where I was "quiet keen 2 posts ago.to open the gfa and demand x,y and z,despite it not being in it"

    I have never asked for negotiations. It is my view that the GFA must be implemented if the conditions are met re- voting. After it is implemented then my community is free to democratically work to get as much autonomy as possible from the rest of the island.


    You wanted ireland to leave the eu as part of a reunifaction and join commonwealth (why??)....your posts are there for all to see??

    You wantes everything to be on table and discussed,now you claim you dont want negociations???lol mate


  • #71
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A timely bit of introspection from a Unionist...is it too little too late though?

    https://sluggerotoole.com/2020/05/31/unionism-needs-a-reformation-of-its-own-one-that-turns-it-into-a-movement-that-is-fit-for-the-modern-era/

    The conclusion is a pretty stark choice.
    It’s difficult not to feel that with the erosion of political Unionism the link between Great Britain and Northern Ireland might actually be stronger. Political Unionism has disillusioned the Northern Ireland public of all political shades and has resulted in many Unionists turning away from politics. Unionism needs a Reformation of its own, one that turns it into a movement that is fit for the modern era, that is open and inclusive and really sells the benefit of the Union rather than opposing every single thing it is confronted with until such times that it has to in effect suck them up.


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  • #72
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Deleted User wrote: »

    You wanted ireland to leave the eu as part of a reunifaction and join commonwealth (why??)....your posts are there for all to see??

    You wantes everything to be on table and discussed,now you claim you dont want negociations???lol mate

    Nonsense. Provide the evidence.

    My point about stuff on the table was in response to a few posters on here continually crying to begin negotiations about what a united Ireland might look like. I have pointed out that that is a nonsense as the GFA deals with it if it happens. In the meantime if anyone demands negotiations then of course everything must be on the table.

    You are spinning and twisting but I think other posters can see what is going on


  • #73
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    downcow wrote: »
    Unionists do not work well with airy fairy fudges.
    I have asked many times in reference to Irish language a few simple yes no questions. But to make it really simple here I will narrow it down to one simple question.
    Would this Irish language act require the placing Irish language signage in areas where the vast majority of residents or employees did not want them? Simple question!

    Yes on public property...its a harmless compromise?


    The fact yous think so little of nationlists,that you dont want this,is entirely on you and noone else


  • #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    downcow wrote: »
    Nonsense. Provide the evidence.

    My point about stuff on the table was in response to a few posters on here continually crying to begin negotiations about what a united Ireland might look like. I have pointed out that that is a nonsense as the GFA deals with it if it happens. In the meantime if anyone demands negotiations then of course everything must be on the table.

    You are spinning and twisting but I think other posters can see what is going on


    downcow wrote: »
    Would you be up for a nationwide discussion on options for the island going forward. Eg rejoining uk, joining commonwealth, roi leaving eu with the uk, Northern Ireland committing to next 200 years as part of uk, independent ni and uniting the island for the first time in history?
    Don’t ask unionists to be part of a UI discussion unless absolutely everything is on the table.



    Indeed....they can see,who is lying here


  • #75
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    Joanne Bunting and Edwin Poots might disagree Francesco...and those who voted for them.

    I asked you, do you think the ILA was going to 'shove Irish' down anyone's throats?


  • #76
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Indeed....they can see,who is lying here

    And everyone can see that my comment was in direct response to this.
    Originally Posted by maccored View Post
    its not up to the shinners to outline what a UI is - its up to everyone on the island. the first thing to do is discuss it, and SF have regularly called for a nationwide discussion on the subject


  • #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    downcow wrote: »
    And everyone can see that my comment was in direct response to this.
    Originally Posted by maccored View Post
    its not up to the shinners to outline what a UI is - its up to everyone on the island. the first thing to do is discuss it, and SF have regularly called for a nationwide discussion on the subject

    So,youve gone from you dont want negociations,to now saying ya do :pac:


    If nothing else,your some craic


  • #78
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So,youve gone from you dont want negociations,to now saying ya do :pac:


    If nothing else,your some craic

    Blaaz. I think you know well what you are at. Can you show me anywhere I have suggested negotiations.
    Let me be really clear for you. I don't believe Unionists should ever enter negotiations on a UI prior to a successful vote by both jurisdictions.

    Any comment I have made on negotiations is simply a challenge to the few Republicans on here who cry continually about wanting Unionists to negotiate about a new Ireland - simply because they know they cannot win the vote. I have said to them that if they want to talk about all possibilities for the future of this piece of land then I would not be opposed to Unionists discussing. But absolutely not a situation where discussions are a one-way street


  • #79
    downcow
    Registered Users Posts: 11,045 ✭✭✭✭downcow


    downcow wrote: »
    Unionists do not work well with airy fairy fudges.
    I have asked many times in reference to Irish language a few simple yes no questions. But to make it really simple here I will narrow it down to one simple question.
    Would this Irish language act require the placing Irish language signage in areas where the vast majority of residents or employees did not want them? Simple question!
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes on public property...its a harmless compromise?

    Well at least Blaaz is honest on this one. This is the reason we cannot countenance an Irish language act. This is just one of many questions I could ask which would demonstrate how this would be used to wind us up.
    A few on here may disagree, but this is exactly the same as loyalist parades in Catholic areas - which of course no longer take place.
    This would be so divisive. Every Unionist area you went into, signs would be defaced and you would know exactly where you were by how the compulsory irish signs were treated.
    This request for Irish language signs everywhere is from the same people who were so insistent to remove the union flag from public buildings.
    You really couldn't make it up - the hypocrisy.

    This is also why you will find that every single Unionist party in Northern Ireland from the most extreme to the most moderate as opposed to an Irish language act - we simply do not trust them


  • #80
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Brendan Bendar wrote: »
    They have done nothing else.
    They have done nothing.


  • #81
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    downcow wrote: »
    Well at least Blaaz is honest on this one. This is the reason we cannot countenance an Irish language act. This is just one of many questions I could ask which would demonstrate how this would be used to wind us up.
    A few on here may disagree, but this is exactly the same as loyalist parades in Catholic areas - which of course no longer take place.
    This would be so divisive. Every Unionist area you went into, signs would be defaced and you would know exactly where you were by how the compulsory irish signs were treated.
    This request for Irish language signs everywhere is from the same people who were so insistent to remove the union flag from public buildings.
    You really couldn't make it up - the hypocrisy.

    This is also why you will find that every single Unionist party in Northern Ireland from the most extreme to the most moderate as opposed to an Irish language act - we simply do not trust them

    There were never going to be 'compulsory' Irish signs. That was a concession and deference to your cultural insecurities.


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  • #82
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It won't matter what SF say come the time, unless they are the government, as it will be the government not a single party that will be making the case for it.
    So they wont do anything that might influence people towards the idea until they get a border poll. Typical of them. They havent two brains to rub together


  • #83
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were never going to be 'compulsory' Irish signs. That was a concession and deference to your cultural insecurities.
    In other words the Shinners could claim that they got a great victory in having an Irish Language Act passed but there would be no visible use of Irish.
    Knowing the pathetic level of Irish among their leaders maybe its just as well. Tiocfaidh ar la will get them through most meetings


  • #84
    munsterlegend
    Registered Users Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    Edgware wrote: »
    So they wont do anything that might influence people towards the idea until they get a border poll. Typical of them. They havent two brains to rub together

    So a party who was banned from the airwaves not so long ago and now the largest on the island are brainless? Keyboard warrior you are!


  • #85
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edgware wrote: »
    So they wont do anything that might influence people towards the idea until they get a border poll. Typical of them. They havent two brains to rub together

    I was laughing at the idea that you would be sitting there waiting to be convinced by a party you have a hate of.

    That, as you know will never happen.

    The border poll when it comes will have a proposal as the formulation of it...same as the GFA asked if we wanted to change the constitution.

    That will be a proposal coming from the Irish government of the time. It wont be 'Edgware agin the Shinners'.


  • #86
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edgware wrote: »
    In other words the Shinners could claim that they got a great victory in having an Irish Language Act passed but there would be no visible use of Irish.
    Knowing the pathetic level of Irish among their leaders maybe its just as well. Tiocfaidh ar la will get them through most meetings

    It might surprise you to know that the Irish language is already visible across official signage in counties like Fermanagh and Tyrone for a good few years.
    There have been no recorded deaths by seizure of Unionists on seeing it, as far as I know.
    Defibrillators and resuscitation equipment is on stand by though.

    pettigo-ireland-march-03-2019-signs-showing-the-border-of-the-republic-of-ireland-and-northern-ireland-RW5J5F.jpg


  • #87
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,266 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Edgware wrote: »
    In other words the Shinners could claim that they got a great victory in having an Irish Language Act passed but there would be no visible use of Irish.
    Knowing the pathetic level of Irish among their leaders maybe its just as well. Tiocfaidh ar la will get them through most meetings


    From what I recall, motorways and main routes would have dual language signage and that this signage would not be introduced in one go but only when upgrading signage. Local areas would vote for the signage they wanted. Irish was not going to be compulsory in schools, but the BBC would need to put some resources into it (or maybe they might just broadcast TG4 in NI).


  • #88
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,266 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    downcow wrote: »
    This is just one of many questions I could ask which would demonstrate how this would be used to wind us up.


    How is it possible that an inanimate sign would wind you up?


  • #89
    Madeleine Birchfield
    Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Madeleine Birchfield


    Sinn Fein ought to wait until the UK falls apart or Westminster decides to stop funding Northern Ireland before asking for a border poll, both of which I could see happening in the near future. Northern Ireland isn't viable as an independent country.


  • #90
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    munsterlegend wrote: »
    So a party who was banned from the airwaves not so long ago and now the largest on the island are brainless? Keyboard warrior you are!
    Not completely brainless, they have the ability to plagiarise Jack and the Beanstalk economic policy of the use of magic beans


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  • #91
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,782 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Edgware wrote: »
    Not completely brainless, they have the ability to plagiarise Jack and the Beanstalk economic policy of the use of magic beans

    'Plagiarise' you say?

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/historic-deal-based-on-the-policies-of-excluded-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4229003


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