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That funeral today

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Comments

  • #182
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Saying a day is over isn’t really proof of it. Ireland has had people wishing to downplay history since 1921. Thinking like that is probably what encouraged Flanagan to try commemorate the RIC, which worked out badly for him.

    So we should respect the British royal traditions as their own traditions but not fawn over them.

    This isn’t unique to Ireland and personally I find it an embarrassment, do you want Ireland to stand up on the world stage or do you want to hang on and maintain small country syndrome?

    We lowered a flag , it’s the equivalent of saying “sorry for your loss” to our closest neighbour

    We tend to educate them on their past as we go as we should do


  • #183
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    This isn’t unique to Ireland and personally I find it an embarrassment, do you want Ireland to stand up on the world stage or do you want to hang on and maintain small country syndrome?

    We lowered a flag , it’s the equivalent of saying “sorry for your loss” to our closest neighbour

    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.


  • #184
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,549 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.

    Britain and Ireland are neighbours with very very close ties..in every sense, and it’s the actual history and hostilities and troubles part of this binding, that makes this acknowledgement all the more important, correct and right thing to do with neighbours who are continuing to build peace and reconciliation.

    It’s your attitude of disdain here that will forever hold us all back..no offence to you personally.

    Seriously, we have to move forward in a positive and engaging manner..


  • #185
    Be right back
    Registered Users Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭Be right back


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.

    They are our nearest neighbours so I see it as a mark of respect to a man who served his country and in the role for 70 years. I don't see it as small country syndrome.


  • #186
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.

    Why would we?

    Do you want a return for every good deed you do? Be the bigger person, let it go .

    And regarding the other countries you mentioned, who cares what they do ? It what’s we do that matters to us


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  • #187
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.

    Yeah, I have to say I agree. Being all so respectful and neighbourly is all well and good, but not when there is no reciprocation, as of course there isn’t. For me, that would be a matter of national dignity, no matter what other country is in question. Symbolism matters, you are actually saying something about yourself and the way you see yourself as a state in your political surroundings with stuff like this. It would just give it an extra little sting that it’s the actual former coloniser. (I’m not Irish.)


  • #188
    Ckendrick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭Ckendrick


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Who else flew the flag at half mast. A quick google and the danish Queen did, in her palace, but she was a relative. Did the US fly their flag at half mast. Did France. Are these countries suffering from small country syndrome?

    Also do we expect reciprocation if Sabina dies.

    This is ridiculous. Do you even live in Ireland? A 1/2 million Irish people live in the uk. 300000 British people live here. Part of the uk exists on this island wether you like it or not. Trade in goods between us and them is crucial for both. They excluded us and us alone in the EU from most of the Brexit conditions.
    Do we have that relationship with any other country? No.
    You are comparing the wife of the largely politically toothless president, who completes practically no duties, for max 14 years to the 99 year old spouse of 74 years of a constitutional monarch of a kingdom part of which exists on the island. A man who completed 23,000 engagements in that time. Ludicrous.


  • #189
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    Meghan should be counting her lucky stars that they didn't spring that trapdoor thingie to the vault when she was standing there on her wedding day.


  • #190
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,190 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Too much singing I thought.

    That's the protestants for you I suppose...

    Up to no good as usual


  • #191
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    seenitall wrote: »
    Yeah, I have to say I agree. Being all so respectful and neighbourly is all well and good, but not when there is no reciprocation, as of course there isn’t. For me, that would be a matter of national dignity, no matter what other country is in question. Symbolism matters, you are actually saying something about yourself and the way you see yourself as a state in your political surroundings with stuff like this. It would just give it an extra little sting that it’s the actual former coloniser. (I’m not Irish.)

    How do you know there’s no reciprocation? I’ll save you the bother of searching through our diplomatic cables by saying... you don’t


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  • #192
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Ckendrick wrote: »
    This is ridiculous. Do you even live in Ireland? A 1/2 million Irish people live in the uk. 300000 British people live here. Part of the uk exists on this island wether you like it or not. Trade in goods between us and them is crucial for both. They excluded us and us alone in the EU from most of the Brexit conditions.
    Do we have that relationship with any other country? No.
    You are comparing the wife of the largely politically toothless president, who completes practically no duties, for max 14 years to the 99 year old spouse of 74 years of a constitutional monarch of a kingdom part of which exists on the island. A man who completed 23,000 engagements in that time. Ludicrous.

    No, it’s not ludicrous, the principle of reciprocity is a perfectly good and sound one for any kind of international relations, neighbourly ones included. It doesn’t matter a jot who Sabrina is, what matters is the position she holds politically - the equivalent of Philip’s. That’s what counts, not the length of the service, toothlessness or otherwise, or any other parameters. If you decide to disregard all that out of neighbourliness, just be mindful that you are sending a certain signal internationally, and that a whole lot of countries out there will have a completely different view of your actions than what you imagine. Of which foremost the UK.


  • #193
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,549 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This really is bordering absurd wondering what Britain will do if Sabina Higgins dies...


  • #194
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    How do you know there’s no reciprocation? I’ll save you the bother of searching through our diplomatic cables by saying... you don’t

    If the UK lowers their flag half-mast for Sabina, I stand corrected, disregard my posts.

    ETA: a quick way to check this is if they lowered it for a spouse or a family member (thinking of Diana and Queen Mum here) of a serving Irish Pres the last time a death like that happened. Perhaps a death like that never happened? But I would be very surprised if they did, or would. Pleasantly surprised, of course.


  • #195
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    walshb wrote: »
    This really is bordering absurd wondering what Britain will do if Sabina Higgins dies...

    As I said, it’s not Sabina Higgins this is about. If that is so difficult to comprehend, it doesn’t mean it’s absurd. Most states out there would be guided by the principle I’m talking about. By that token, I could say your view is the one that is absurd. But I won’t. It’s just a different opinion.


  • #196
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    seenitall wrote: »
    As I said, it’s not Sabina Higgins this is about. If that is so difficult to comprehend, it doesn’t mean it’s absurd. Most states out there would be guided by the principle I’m talking about. By that token, I could say your view is the one that is absurd. But I won’t. It’s just a different opinion.

    It’s what we do it’s who we are


  • #197
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    It’s what we do it’s who we are

    That’s the spirit! :D haha


  • #198
    Ckendrick
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 128 ✭✭Ckendrick


    seenitall wrote: »
    No, it’s not ludicrous, the principle of reciprocity is a perfectly good and sound one for any kind of international relations, neighbourly ones included. It doesn’t matter a jot who Sabrina is, what matters is the position she holds politically - the equivalent of Philip’s. That’s what counts, not the length of the service, toothlessness or otherwise, or any other parameters. If you decide to disregard all that out of neighbourliness, just be mindful that you are sending a certain signal internationally, and that a whole lot of countries out there will have a completely different view of your actions than what you imagine. Of which foremost the UK.

    On what grounds does Sabina Higgins hold the same position politically as Philip. I’d like to see any constitutional evidence you have of that.
    You are implying, totally in error, and you know that, that the Queen would not offer official condolences to the Irish President on the death of his wife.
    So I’d like to see on what grounds you are alleging that.


  • #199
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Ckendrick wrote: »
    On what grounds does Sabina Higgins hold the same position politically as Philip. I’d like to see any constitutional evidence you have of that.
    You are implying, totally in error, and you know that, that the Queen would not offer official condolences to the Irish President on the death of his wife.
    So I’d like to see on what grounds you are alleging that.

    British head of state (aka figurehead) - Liz 2, Irish head of state (aka figurehead) -Micky D. Their spouses - Phil and Sabina respectively. If that doesn’t mean they hold an equivalent status between two states in political terms (note I never said ‘same’, just as being Queen and being President is not ‘same’, but it’s equivalent for the purposes of international politics), I’d like to know who does, because they do. The fact that Phil is a decorated soldier, patron, duke, this, that and the other, doesn’t give him any higher status on that inter-state level than that which Sabina holds. Why you think these plain facts require “constitutional evidence”, who knows. I guess you want to try and fault this logic somehow as you’re not happy I disagree with you.

    I wasn’t implying any such thing. I said nothing whatsoever about offering any condolences, so you are totally in error, and you know that. The issue I was commenting on was the half-mast flag lowering. Show me evidence that the British state ever did, or ever would do the same thing on the occasion of the death of an Irish president’s family, and I will stand corrected. I’ll be expecting pigs to fly before that day comes, though.


  • #200
    BloodBath
    Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    You’re missing the point , the royals ARE a uk tourist attraction

    The ones in Madame Tussauds maybe. Good luck every getting near the real ones.

    Most of the tourists go to see the big castles and other historic landmarks.


  • #201
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    seenitall wrote: »
    British head of state (aka figurehead) - Liz 2, Irish head of state (aka figurehead) -Micky D. Their spouses - Phil and Sabina respectively. If that doesn’t mean they hold an equivalent status between two states in political terms (note I never said ‘same’, just as being Queen and being President is not ‘same’, but it’s equivalent for the purposes of international politics), I’d like to know who does, because they do. The fact that Phil is a decorated soldier, patron, duke, this, that and the other, doesn’t give him any higher status on that inter-state level than that which Sabina holds. Why you think these plain facts require “constitutional evidence”, who knows. I guess you want to try and fault this logic somehow as you’re not happy I disagree with you.

    I wasn’t implying any such thing. I said nothing whatsoever about offering any condolences, so you are totally in error, and you know that. The issue I was commenting on was the half-mast flag lowering. Show me evidence that the British state ever did, or ever would do the same thing on the occasion of the death of an Irish president’s family, and I will stand corrected. I’ll be expecting pigs to fly before that day comes, though.
    We lowered our flags and do not expect anything in return, because were decent people


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  • #202
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    knucklehead6 wrote: »
    Did you watch Reeling in the Years, the 2010 episode? I’d suggest you do. You’ll see and hear David Cameron apologising for crimes committed on Bloody Sunday.

    Ah yes he apologized...then his government made so the scum who shot innocent people in the back were protected from prosecution...

    Or was that Mays government?


  • #203
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    BloodBath wrote: »
    The ones in Madame Tussauds maybe. Good luck every getting near the real ones.

    Most of the tourists go to see the big castles and other historic landmarks.

    Apologies I over estimated the intelligence of the readers , the royals as in the institution not the actual people behind glass screens
    I gave no intention of being a royal tourist myself


  • #204
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭indioblack


    ReginaldSmythV wrote: »
    They should be owning their history and acknowledging their crimes if they expect everyone to move on.
    OK.
    Any suggestions?


  • #205
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    indioblack wrote: »
    OK.
    Any suggestions?

    A bumming of some sort :)

    The same pageantry as yesterday all leading up to Michael D walking in a dignified manner (the wreath laying walk) up to princess Charles in stocks, trousers down .


    And now the president will commence the bumming


  • #206
    seenitall
    Registered Users Posts: 3,702 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    We lowered our flags and do not expect anything in return, because were decent people

    I know Ash, you said so already. I accept that as a political view, although I disagree with it on principle, but hey, bully for me. :)


  • #207
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    maybe someone can explain this, because I was wondering about it: why did Harry walk in line with William / after Prince Charles, the future kings, at all?

    He decided to not be on duty for the royal family anymore, so he's just another grandson of the Queen, like the children from Anne / Andrew / Edward which were standing along the pavement and obviously not allowed to walk behind the coffin...
    it's all about protocoll, so how come Harry was treated still as some 'special grandchild'? Is he still considered as a heir apparent? He quit!!:)


  • #208
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    tara73 wrote: »
    maybe someone can explain this, because I was wondering about it: why did Harry walk in line with William / after Prince Charles, the future kings, at all?

    He decided to not be on duty for the royal family anymore, so he's just another grandson of the Queen, like the children from Anne / Andrew / Edward which were standing along the pavement and obviously not allowed to walk behind the coffin...
    it's all about protocoll, so how come Harry was treated still as some 'special grandchild'? Is he still considered as a heir apparent? He quit!!:)

    He walked alongside two other of the queen’s grandsons, Peter Phillips and William. The 4th, Edwards son, is a young teenager and went with his mother and sister. Also, two of the queens granddaughters have recently given birth, so might explain why they all went ahead.


  • #209
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,342 ✭✭✭tara73


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He walked alongside two other of the queen’s grandsons, Peter Phillips and William. The 4th, Edwards son, is a young teenager and went with his mother and sister. Also, two of the queens granddaughters have recently given birth, so might explain why they all went ahead.


    hmm, sorry, but not really convincing..why can't you walk behind the coffin if you recently gave birth..?? and there is an appr. 18 year old daughter from Edward too, not only the 13 year old son, and the daughters from Anne..

    anyway, maybe they just decided it should be that way, with Harry... I actually think he should have not walked there, given this awful interview and stuff being said. Actually shows a lot of magnanimity from the family.


  • #210
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    I’d love know what the banter was like with Harry after :)


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  • #211
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,386 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Aegir wrote: »
    Windsor is rammed with tourists every summer

    Yes, and it would be without a royal family too. Just like Versaille Palace in France, Alhambra in Granada, Spain and Topkapi Palace in Istanbul despite none of the regimes existing anymore.


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