Carlow Town poor planning

as an adjunct to my earlier post I see 100 new jobs in MSD. However, how many of these will move or even live here? A town needs to have an anchor to attract folks to live there, particularly more skilled or educated ones who have travelled widely and with their expectations are unlikely to settle for what Carlow has to currently offer. Often some of these better paid folks move to Kilkenny or Kildare and just commute down on the motorway. The leakage of these better paid residents is visible from the type and level,of retail available in Carlow vs elsewhere. People on minimum wage or more modest incomes will not sustain much beyond fast food joints …

To be fair to some of the leadership in CW coco they are trying to move things on a piece. From what I see, the myopic, opportunist elected members often are a handbrake on progress and are led by objectors or the lowest common denominator …. The Barrow blue way is a case in point … Seperately, the issue of Graiguecullen needs to be revisited medium to long term - but that’s another days work …

Carlow has much more to offer than Kilkenny on a practical level, but there's a snob inside us all and people will happily fork out an extra 200k to live in a similar sized house in Kilkenny town vs Carlow. The seven or eight retail parks in the town are fantastic vs trying to navigate the clogged Kilkenny streets on a Saturday afternoon with its single retail park. The educational facilities at all levels are better in Carlow. The traffic is better in Carlow town. These are practical, everyday things that i appreciate about living here vs Kilkenny, or Dublin.

The census has shown that the population growth of Kilkenny has slowed compared to the national average. They have priced themselves out of the market for many first time buyers, and their highfalutin council has focused too much on hotels and tourism and too little on retail. Up until a couple of years ago they didn't even have a decent Cinema in Kk. They won't even let Tesco into the town.

Sure, Kilkenny is far more pleasing on the eye compared to hollowed out Carlow town centre, but the donut effect does have a lot of practical benefits for ordinary folks who just want the modern conveniences on their doorstep. I'll bet Argos in Carlow gets more footfall than the Butler gallery in Kilkenny 😁

I lived in Kilkenny. I know the town well enough. I did love the pubs, eating out was so-so, but it's not good for shopping. It's a nightmare for parking. It's expensive. My wife has friends living in Kilkenny who come up here to shop. Ne'er a decent/convenient fish shop or bakery in the town, at least when I lived there.

Personally speaking, we have a slighly better quality of life in Carlow than Kilkenny. Our money goes further, everything is more convenient, better house, more retail options, better neighbours now (we got out of a boom time estate in KK). Overall it has been a good move.

I won't lose much sleep over the poor look of Carlow town centre. Whether it's junkies on display on Tullow street or ceramics on display in the Kilkenny design gallery, neither of these things has any actual impact on most peoples everyday lives because most of us live outside town centres.

Carlow is thriving, people are just looking in the wrong place for the footfall. It's not in the traditional town centre.

Perhaps your friend should have asked a different question: Do you WANT to have your mortgage paid off years earlier?

Yes but will it ever proceed? I mean the demand for student accommodation is there but planning permission was granted to Carlow Estates for the site on 5th of March 2019.....

But as a development, the concept looks magnificent in design terms; seems quite high, four storeys in comparison to surrounding premises & residences but permission was granted so....

Have to laugh at some of the comments about Kilkenny.

Trying to compare both is just delusional. It's easy to argue that it's a "snob" thing but it's just the truth.

Kilkenny is leagues better than Carlow and possibly one of the nicest places to live in the country.

Saying the traffic is better in Carlow is hilarious, have you ever tried to get from Green lane to the college between 5-6 in the last year? Or even out the Wexford road? New traffic lights all over the place that don't prioritise throughput through the town, clogging up the entire place.

Carlow certainly has better shopping than Kilkenny but that is partly due to less restrictive planning and laois co co allowing big development just over the border presumably to get in on some precious rate income. I'm not sure the American style retail parks that require dependency on cars are something to be overly celebrated though.

Kilkenny is certainly more expensive but the reason for that is people actually want to live there. It's on another level for pubs, restaurants and entertainment than Carlow.

Just look at how many hotels are in the centre of Carlow town Vs Kilkenny, and then look at the standard of hotel in both.

Carlow has its positives but let's not let bias get in the way of reality.

I'll happily pay a couple of euros to park in Kilkenny every time and enjoy strolling around the thriving city centre, castle grounds and many festivals, restaurants and pubs, instead of looking at the many betting shops, pharmacies, discount shops, hairdressers and boarded up vacant units that occupy much of Carlow town centre.

Also the Laois thing defo a factor. The large retail park with dunnes stores etc in graiguecullen though very convenient, would never happen in Kilkenny.

Dunnes stores should be located in the town centre or close to it at least. The dynamic would be quite different had that been the case I think. It’s a huge draw of a store

Naas town centre was dying when Tesco's moved out towards Sallins, now that Dunnes have moved into the old Superquinn site in the town centre, it's brought a bit of life back to it

Agree the planning or lack of in Carlow has ruined the town centre. Not uncommon in several provincial towns to be fair, but this donut effect is well known and understood. I suppose brownfield development is always less attractive and can mean planning issues etc. I agree no comparison between KK and CW town centres, chalk and cheese, in the last 30 years both have gone in differing directions.

Separately a county boundary extension westward of the town is a no brainier and was been mooted before as part of a wider package involving Waterford city and the ferryback piece in south KK, Drogheda and a few other places.Rubbish like GAA allegiances plays a factor, these can be solved, but should not be one of the causes of holding up development.

Remember our various Cllrs. stances on this issue at the time when it comes to next May; particularly the ones in the Tullow LEA/MD https://carlow-nationalist.ie/2023/11/29/councils-legal-action-has-cost-300-jobs-in-tullow-says-developer/?fbclid=IwAR0B5Lb9YOjUi8Gaf2sEAgA54G-D-yjvH2oV9TbIe8vsDEIG6rVSLTmYJHs

Why would property prices be much higher in a dead town that nobody wants to live in? They’d be collapsing and people would be snapping up cheap kk homes. Absolutely not yeh case. I knew people that had to move to Carlow and outer small towns to get something affordable. Expensive property is always the hallmark of a place people want to live in and goes a long way to explain Kilkenny low population growth- there’s literally been nowhere to live for people. Kilkenny isnt that attractive for migrants as there’s far cheaper places. I’d actually be very glad if the rest of the country was at this rate as we simply do not have the capacity to deal with this level. It’s next to impossible rent a place. The reason you’ve very expensive new homes in kk is because people want to live there and pay that premium. Also demographics follow this as it’s not the better off and older demographic driving birth rates. You need only a quick walk around Carlow during the day. The unemployment rate is traditionally double Kilkenny’s and CSO stats i read before had well over 50% more jobs/employment based in Kilkenny (vaguely remember something like 7,500 daytime jobs vs 12,500 or so). There’s a lot more white collar office type jobs in kk that wouldn’t be in Carlow.

When I was looking to buy first time I looked at both. Could get a LOT more in Carlow but when it came to it Kilkenny was a no brainer even though I do like Carlow. By Irish standards it’s a good town. Even work colleagues talked me out of it and I’m glad they did.

As for the restaurants what great ones are in Carlow? Cafe 500 is great but they’re actually opening in Kilkenny soon. There’s one middle of the road decent hotel. Kilkenny has problems but not sure I’d swap them for Carlow’s