Need some advice on my son

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 1:37pm

By the way OP,
I don’t think it’s a bad thing you want him to get a job but I just think you went the wrong way about telling him about it and getting him into it.
A slight underpayment of the minimum wage wouldn’t bother me.

Is he a fella that will behave for you OP?
For example could he do something such as run away or something else to get out of it.
Or would he misbehave at the job and cause trouble/damage.
Or would he keep his head down and be miserable and might get to like it?

They are people here posting about them having a job at 14 and how it made them the person they are today but they sort of wanted the job and were happy with it but how would they have felt if there parents pushed them into something that they hated or made them really uncomfortable.

Your a bit cagey on the type of job it is but would he able to do it. Would it require lifting, etc
Could it be a confidence thing and he thinks he won’t be able for it?
Would he be willing to work in retail or a restaurant for example but outdoors work may not be for him.

Does he get on with him or could he have issues with him.( I’d talk about this)

I know there’s 14 year olds out there and they’d like this job and be happy with it.
I do think it’s sort of unfair to your friend to land your son onto him if he really doesn’t want to be there and may be hassle for him.

28-05-2020 1:45pm

I often read the "I started work at 10, and I'm fine" opinions as "I was made to work at an early age and I'm still bitter about it, so everyone else should have to suffer like I did"
I know that's not the case for everyone, but for a lot of people that's how it's coming across.

In the case of farm or family business, the expectation would be well known and accepted by most teens, I think. This situation seems to be a decision based on the parent not being happy about the child 'doing nothing'.

I think the way this was handled wasn't great and definitely heavy handed reaction. A discussion about work before any arrangement was made could have saved a lot of stress, and agree with other posters that a calm discussion at this stage could help.

OP, I hope you're reading and taking on board different perspectives and can have a discussion with your son and that some kind of compromise can be reached.
Good luck

cgcsb · 28-05-2020 1:46pm

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

Yes he will get paid €40 for 9-5 and he can keep it as his own to save and spend. When I asked why he wouldn’t go he said he was too young (I was working at 14)

I note you made this decision completely over his head and arranged it completely over his head. Who is the person you know who is profiting from this cheap labour? I worked a min wage job when I was 16 many many years ago and at that point the min wage for an under 18 was about €7/h

Saying you done it as a kid isn't really an excuse. Our parent's life isn't our life, things change.

Did you parents make these decisions entirely over your head? were you happy about it?

FAILSAFE 00 · 28-05-2020 1:47pm

Let's face it. It's just laziness.

Tough love needed.

28-05-2020 1:49pm

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Let's face it. It's just laziness.

Tough love needed.

FAILSAFE, you know nothing about this child.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-05-2020 1:53pm

sugarman wrote: »

Not necessarily.. Money at that age meant very little to me and I'd have had no motivation to go out and earn €1000 a week if it was on offer. All I ever wanted to do (and did) at that age was to be a kid and hang around with friends in a field doing absolutely nothing all summer ...and it was great.

That's great and all, but OP's son will be working 2 days a week. Will give him an advantage of getting part time work when his older and teach him where money actually comes from...

cgcsb · 28-05-2020 1:55pm

Muppet Man wrote: »

I was picking spuds when was 11 for 5 quid a day. Never knew tiredness like it. It was great. Good on you OP.

adjusting for inflation, how fare do you think €5 an hour is?

Treppen · 28-05-2020 1:56pm

JustAThought wrote: »

punishment is 100% ???? How can you say this? Having a toy removed is hardly 100% punishment. There is also his phone. Daily routine.TV restrictions, Change the password on the wifi. lots of ways. And that’s before I am even motivated.

And I am considering unpaid house & ‘yard’ chores a character building obligation not a punishment.

you must have had pushover parents -or be one! Or be a child posting !!!

So you reckon escalating the punishment is the way forward?
Calling me names is just showing how week your position is btw

To be honest I didn't work when I was a teenager but spent a good bit of my time doing gardening chores and minding grandparent.... Who also put me to work in garden, painting, cutting wood, shopping, fishing etc. (All year btw not just summer). So I had no problem jumping in to landscaping work later on in life.
When I was 18+ I was offered work in my father's employment during summers and I wanted to do it as my brother's did it before, so there was a precedent.
For the op's kid though there wasn't anything flagged etc

cgcsb · 28-05-2020 1:58pm

The11Duff wrote: »

I'm so shocked at people saying the lad cant work because there is a day left on the school term. I didn't see the OP write that he had to start this job before school finished.
Also 2 days a week is not going to test him. He has 5 days to recover if its that bad.

I went to work at 14 with my father on building sites for £50 a week in 2000.

With some of the comments on here, no wonder young people are turning into snowflakes.

That was illegal then.

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 1:59pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's great and all, but OP's son will be working 2 days a week. Will give him an advantage of getting part time work when his older and teach him where money actually comes from...

He might also get a bad name if he acts up on this job because he doesn’t want to be there.

Treppen · 28-05-2020 2:02pm

NSAman wrote: »

We had a family business. it was expected that during your time away from School you worked. I started working at 8. I started a small business at 10. I see no harm in it personally. It wasn’t that we were down a coal mine at the hard face, you worked to support yourself, learn that money does not come free and it also instilled a great work ethic in me, that continues today.

I know not all parents think that kids working is fine. That is their choice.

As long as the kid is safe, under supervision properly and not placed in any dangerous situations, I see no harm.

Many kids (even older than 14) do not want to work and expect to have their free time to themselves while mum and dad pay for it... that is for the parents to sort out with the kids.

For me personally, my lads started working with me young. It does give people an advantage later in life (IMHO) as they are able to deal with people, socialise and also know what money is and how to acquire it through work. They also learn that nothing in this life is free.

Yes there were times that “but...but.... dad.... my friends are going and I want to go!”... I am not a hard ass.. and negotiation skills are learned early.

That's all fine and I don't think many would disagree with it. I think it's the way it came about.
School finishes today.
Your getting a job.
No I'm not.
Takes Xbox.
Impasse.

As you said negotiation skills are learned early, and I suspect this was not carefully 'negotiated' from the outset.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 2:07pm

He's 14, plenty of time to work when he's older. But since you don't hold that view...

Noddy Nangle wrote: »

... Anyways the other day I managed to get him a job for a couple of days a week with a friend of mine so that he can begin to learn life skills and develop a work ethic. When I told him first he told me that he wasn’t doing it and gradually over the past few days this has become a real issue and yesterday I took his xbox and phone from him, his reaction was to go mental and we haven’t really spoken to him since....

Here's where you F'ed up. You didn't speak to him about it before you told him he was doing it. The expectation from his point of view was a summer free to do whatever he wants. Now you've pulled the rug on that. You can't treat him like a child and expect a mature adult reaction.

beauf · 28-05-2020 2:12pm

GarIT wrote: »

We're not going to agree on the first part. I think advances in our society over the last 30 years should allow for children to have easier childhoods.

Well they don't because they dealing with social media and addiction to gaming and screen time.

GarIT wrote: »

I'd say taking away someone entertainment and social interaction when they are stuck at home to get them to do something illegal is closer to bullying than parenting.

Certainly a bad idea. Moderation in all things.

GarIT wrote: »

I assume you have heard actions speak louder than words, OP can say they are doing it because of love if they want to but it doesn't mean they are doing the right thing just because they said they are.

You said learning to program or learning a language wouldn't have the same discipline benefits of working, so that was my take on it that you don't see them as real jobs.

I do have an aversion to physical work, and I don't think that's necessarily harmful. In modern times it's not really harmful for the child either he is doing well in sports, so likely fit, and doing well in school so won't have to do manual labour if they don't want to.

This has got nothing to do with manual work. Might be an office job. Its the life skills you get from working, most likely with others.

They shouldn't be forced into it. But some kids (not all) are addicted to screen and never got off them. That is bad.

No ones going to agree. Personal bias comes into it.

c.p.w.g.w · 28-05-2020 2:17pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

He might also get a bad name if he acts up on this job because he doesn’t want to be there.

That's an even better life lesson as far as I'm concerned

Wanderer19 · 28-05-2020 2:22pm

Flickerfusion wrote: »

This is term time. He should be working on school remotely.

We are *not* in school holiday season yet. It’s May!

School finishes at the end of May at second level. Do as of tomorrow your comment is out of faye.. Because of the pandemic he's probably only doing a couple of hours a day, if that. He may as well be working.

Having a job gives skills that can't be bought, better he learns them now, and has a few Bob in his pocket.

If I could get my son a job for the summer I'd be delighted.

freshpopcorn · 28-05-2020 2:24pm

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's an even better life lesson as far as I'm concerned

That’s a very mature thing. To allow your fourteen year old who is going through puberty make a mess of things that could cause him hassle for years. So you can prove a point!

noodler · 28-05-2020 2:29pm

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh. I also don't hold too much away with the "you didn't consult him" points.

I don't think I had my first job til I was more 14/15 - albeit I think I was warned I needed spending money for the Gaeltacht. I don't really hold much sway in the "he might get covid" or "he's worried about covid" points either.

14 is maybe, though, a year too young. Maybe.

That being said. He's just had two months doing nothing (harsh?) And looking down the barrell of three months more so these are strange times.

I feel for ya OP. He will be working for the rest of his life etc but you'd expect a part time summer job to come onto the agenda at 15/16 anyway.

Two days a week doing this would be very good for him I think.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:30pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

No, you are wrong. There is nothing whatsoever wrong in it, despite how times change.

The kid isn't being bullied either. That's your emotive way of putting your point across, but it's totally at odds with the OP's own words...

How about listening to what people say, rather than imposing your irrationality ?

Who said that ? Who said that the benefits of this are only in the hard labour aspect of it ? I didn't anyway.

Most of us move on.

and my back doesn't hurt but sure I should give it all up because it's not a proper job with discipline.[/quote]

Your aversion to physical work is clouding your perception. It isn't centrally about manual work, and no-one here is asking you to do anything. Are they ?

Your aversion, again.[/QUOTE]

THe parent has decided the kid needs a job and going by OP there was no initial discussion. Just a statement that you are doing this job.

You don't need to raise your voice to be a bully. Refusing all discussion, emotional manipulation and then cutting off outside contact with their friends - all so the parent gets their own way, no discussion.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:36pm

OP should have encouraged a job, imo.

Xbox costs money, games, phone cost money etc.

Could have told the kid you will only support X value (less than now) and will not be buying games etc (outside of gifts)

I got a job around then, maybe earlier, because there was stuff I wanted and couldn't expect my parents to buy it for me all the time. my first job wasn't because I was told to turn up and work for cheap 'because I love you'.

Lefty Bicek · 28-05-2020 2:36pm

GarIT wrote: »

You said learning to program or learning a language wouldn't have the same discipline benefits of working, so that was my take on it that you don't see them as real jobs.

No, that is not the point I was making at all and I think there is a bit of reverse snobbery inyour assumption there.

Just because I can stone and pipe a drainage system or wire a house doesn't mean I can't do more cerebral things like learn a foreign language, or get a degree from a world-renowned university.

Actually I have done those things, and plenty more.

I said...

discipline of employment (as opposed to work).

From my own experiences and observations over the years, I see them as two very separate things.

I work just as hard at my hobbies and interests as at my job. That is my way, and I have no patience with messers or people not dedicated to something.

Employment requires my dedication as well, but on someone else's time, not my own, and on their terms, not mine.

That is a big, big difference. It's a skill worth having.

oyvey · 28-05-2020 2:50pm

noodler wrote: »

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh. I also don't hold too much away with the "you didn't consult him" points...

Out of interest, why don't you think the "you didn't consult him" points matter?

Lefty Bicek · 28-05-2020 2:55pm

14.

That awkward age where -

- you're not old enough to go out and do bit of work for a few quid.
- you're just old enough that having the Xbox confiscated is child abuse.
- you're too old that your parent can actually parent without your consultation.

challengemaster · 28-05-2020 2:57pm

noodler wrote: »

I'm torn here. I think fiver an hour for a 14 year old is grand tbh.

In what way does a persons age have a reflection on the amount they get paid?

Anyone under 18 is entitled to €7.07/hour. That means he should be getting paid €113.12 for his 16 hours. Anything less is giving him a very early message that "it's alright for other people to break the law in a workplace".

There's already too many people in the world getting exploited by shítty employers. You don't need your parent & their friend doing it to you when you're 14 too.

McHardcore · 28-05-2020 2:59pm

Id leave the lad the xbox if he is playing it online.
They are using xbopx live to keep in touch with friends which is their way to socialise.

Mitch Connor · 28-05-2020 2:59pm

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

14.

That awkward age where -

- you're not old enough to go out and do bit of work for a few quid.
- you're just old enough that having the Xbox confiscated is child abuse.
- you're too old that your parent can actually parent without your consultation.

At the same time:

- You are old enough to work.
- Not old enough to work for a legal wage.
- Not old enough to have any input on the work you do.
- Not old enough to be worthy of a discussion.

GreeBo · 28-05-2020 3:01pm

I think perhaps you should have had the conversation before getting him a job and expecting him to love the idea of working during summer.

FionnK86 · 28-05-2020 3:05pm

OP give him back his Xbox. I vowed I'd never play video games again when I was working mad hours at my job but now that im working from home it really drives me away from boredom.

If you think he's old enough to have a job, then he's old enough to have an xbox and have control of it. The phone too, phone will be needed for job more than likely.

I hope he gets on well with the job, i'd my first around that age and it really made me the man I am today. Fair play to you getting him a job, good example of parenting. But you need to follow up now with the hard part of letting him spread his wings.

NSAman · 28-05-2020 3:12pm

Treppen wrote: »

That's all fine and I don't think many would disagree with it. I think it's the way it came about.
School finishes today.
Your getting a job.
No I'm not.
Takes Xbox.
Impasse.

As you said negotiation skills are learned early, and I suspect this was not carefully 'negotiated' from the outset.

Agreed.

Hence, a talk, sit down, explain and negotiate. Dad did the wrong thing here.

I am very sure the young lad in question, wouldn't mind getting out of the house and getting paid for it. Let's be fair, most of us at that age were very shy and unsure about ourselves.

It is something that many young people want, yet there are many young people who just want to play games with online friends. There has to be a balance.

Dad has to admit that he went around this the wrong way, but I admire him for getting junior a job. Junior has to be made to understand that this is for him to grow and earn a living for himself.

80 euro a week for a 14 year old is not bad for two days work.

A little more incentive from Dad, e.g. you finish and do a good job then we can do something together, we can see if we can get "X" that you wanted.... might just solve the issue.

Wanderer19 · 28-05-2020 3:14pm

challengemaster wrote: »

In what way does a persons age have a reflection on the amount they get paid?

Anyone under 18 is entitled to €7.07/hour. That means he should be getting paid €113.12 for his 16 hours. Anything less is giving him a very early message that "it's alright for other people to break the law in a workplace".

There's already too many people in the world getting exploited by shítty employers. You don't need your parent & their friend doing it to you when you're 14 too.

Entitlement and worth are 2 different things (other posters mentioned worth).

He may be 'entitled' to minimum wage, but without experience whose to say he can do the job asked, or will be punctual, respectful etc.?

The op, suggested €5 as a starting point for his son, and then for his son to get a raise.

My 15 yo knows what the minimum wage is, but would be happy to work for less, if he could find work.

I've seen experienced adults being treated in much worse ways.

Noddy Nangle · 28-05-2020 3:15pm

UPDATE - Many thanks for all of the advice and it’s much appreciated. Just to clarify a few things that came up in the comments.

1) I had spoken with him throughout this year to coax him to get a little job for himself and be independent but was always met with a “no”. Therefore I pushed on and asked my friend (who is the child’s godfather) to help me out. I told him would he let him do two days a week and I suggested to give €40 per day. Just to compare when I first started working at 14 I was paid £40 per week for five full days. My friend cares for the welfare of my son and would look after him whilst helping to introduce him to doing some light work.
2) The job doesn’t involve meeting the public and would be mainly working outdoors or in a warehouse with no machinery involved. The job is located about 500 metres from our house along a back road so he could walk or cycle to work and even come home for lunch if he wanted.
3) To those that think I am bullying him then I just want to say that you are wrong. I am trying to prepare him for adulthood. This has nothing to do with either the work or the money. He will still have plenty of time to enjoy his friends and his summer.

I am also conscious that we are living in strange times and I don’t want him to be cut off from his friends so at lunchtime I told him that I am proud of him as a son and he has made me proud many times as he grew up. But I told him that myself and his Mam were very disappointed in him for refusing to take the job. I said that he can have either the phone or his Xbox back but only one and he has to tell me which one, but whatever one he doesn’t pick with not be given back to him. If he changes his mind on the job then he can have both. I think it’s the best I can do.

Need some advice on my son

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