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Louis Theroux - Mothers on the Edge

2456

Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Post partum literally means 'of a mother post birth'. Post partum depression is the depression of a mother, post birth.

    Men do not get it, unless you're one of those few men who have babies. Something of a contradiction in terms to many.

    I suppose you could lobby Theroux to make a documentary about that, since programmes about post partum depression as defined seem to upset a few.


  • #33
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »
    Its an unsafe environment for children, they are putting the kids at risk, would only take a second to do something to a child, no amount of supervision can stop that. It's in the child's best interest to be at home with the father or any other stable adult.

    I wouldn't condone children being left with a father who had mental health problems either, no matter how helpful in their recovery


    What are you basing that on? Are you some kind of expert on this issue or do you think you know more than the clinical team caring for these patients?


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think that poster is conflating post partum psychosis with post partum depression.


  • #35
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    There was an especially interesting talk with the clinical psychologist Dr Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime yesterday. He was presenting an overview of the enormous field of medical evidence on the importance of stability and love in the first three years of a child's life with the emphasis on how this is affecting homeless children in Ireland today. It was a very, very disturbing listen - not least because every parent will be thinking about how they could have been better - and I got the strong impression that we are brewing up a storm when these kids grow up:

    Paul D'Alton on RTÉ's Drivetime: Homeless children

    Post partum depression is a very common condition. It does not prevent a mother from providing "stability and love", especially when being treated which it appears it was in the documentary being discussed. Dont you think that removing children from the care of their mothers causes a lot more problems? It's known that it does.


  • #36
    utyh2ikcq9z76b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What are you basing that on? Are you some kind of expert on this issue or do you think you know more than the clinical team caring for these patients?

    I'm basing it on watching the show, one of the mother's went missing in an apparent suicide attempt. Others where in no fit state to mind anyone. They had serious mental health issues. Why should the children be put at risk like that? The childrens interest should come first. They all had a loving stable parent at home, who was in a far better position to offer the love and nurturing needed for the child


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  • #37
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Maybe, as she is an adult they asked her directly if she was smoking or drinking, why would they ask you? You are not their patient.

    Correct I'm not, however if she goes in with a cold/flu not pregnant they don't ask her does she feel safe. Why not?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #38
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    Kiera Alive Seesaw wrote: »
    I'm basing it on watching the show, one of the mother's went missing in an apparent suicide attempt. Others where in no fit state to mind anyone. They had serious mental health issues. Why should the children be put at risk like that? The childrens interest should come first. They all had a loving stable parent at home, who was in a far better position to offer the love and nurturing needed for the child

    That lady was supervised 24/7 and only left the facility after being allowed free time on her own in the grounds.

    None of the women interviewed in the programme wanted to hurt their baby. Even the Spanish women with psychosis wanted to harm herself and not the child.

    At the end of the documentary all but one were well on the way to recovery and none had hurt their baby, either at the facility or at home afterwards, so to be fair their treatment does seem to have worked.


  • #39
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »
    It's a bizarre post. "Why didn't they ask me if she drinks/smokes/is coping?" Wtf?

    ??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant we our child.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #40
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Feisar wrote: »
    Correct I'm not, however if she goes in with a cold/flu not pregnant they don't ask her does she feel safe. Why not?

    Probably because it is known that domestic abuse escalates and sometimes even first begins during pregnancy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/

    Violence can begin or escalate in pregnancy and has significant consequences for the woman, fetus and child. Questioning pregnant women about the presence of violence and offering referral to a secondary agency can help to break the pattern of abuse.

    And
    12.9% of 481 women at antenatal booking assessment in Ireland gave a history of experiencing intimate partner abuse3

    Studies that ask about violence more than once during detailed in-person interviews or ask later in pregnancy (during the third trimester) report higher prevalence rates, suggesting that disclosure rates may depend on trust in the questioner, and that pregnancy may lead to new or increased violence.9

    The WHO recently published its findings from a large multi-national study of women and abuse.10 The prevalence of physical violence in pregnancy was reported by women at between 1–28% in 15 different countries. Between a quarter and a half of these women experienced direct trauma to the abdomen during pregnancy. Over 90% of the assailants were the biological father of the unborn child.

    Now, I'm sure you'll agree that identifying at risk women and babies is more important than your hurt feelings over not being consulted on certain aspects of your partners health?


  • #41
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Feisar wrote: »
    ??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.
    Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.


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  • #42
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Feisar wrote: »
    ??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

    OK, I'm not sure I'm taking you up right, so let me get it straight. You feel aggrieved that your partner, carrying your child, under the care of a maternity hospital, was asked if she was ever harmed by you or was in fear of you?

    Or you feel aggrieved that you weren't asked if your partner was smoking or drinking when they could just ask her directly?

    Or you feel aggrieved that you weren't asked if you were ever harmed by your partner?


  • #43
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    Probably because it is known that domestic abuse escalates and sometimes even first begins during pregnancy.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2442136/

    Always happy to learn, da fuq?

    There's me helping as much as I can with fruit and veg intake and making chicken broths.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #44
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Feisar wrote: »
    ??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

    No, no you are not entitled to the same duty of care as your pregnant wife. She being pregnant and all.


  • #45
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    No, no you are not entitled to the same duty of care as your pregnant wife. She being pregnant and all.

    She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #46
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I only have brothers - I understand men not wanting their role in parenting to be forgotten/undermined, but crikey, what a thread to pick to make that point. And what a whiny way of going about it.


  • #47
    wiggle16
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,022 Mod ✭✭✭✭wiggle16


    Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »
    Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.

    I don't agree with doctors/nurses asking the pregnant woman's partner if she smokes or drinks or whatnot, obviously. They are there to provide care for her through her pregnancy, not police her. But myself I thought Feisar's wider point was interesting. I wasn't aware that questions about domestic abuse were a standard thing in antenatal care, and I'm glad to know it's there and happens.

    However, I suppose as a parallel point, I don't think it would be objectionable for a doctor or nurse to ask the father-to-be if he has any concerns relating to the pregnancy. And I mean that in a very general way, not with a view towards "yes, she smokes 20 a day", more like "I feel stupid asking her this, but is XYZ normal during pregnancy?" - obviously he is not entitled to the same duty of care, not by any stretch of the imagination, he's not a patient. But he is involved, and I don't see the harm in that kind of inclusion.


  • #48
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Feisar wrote: »
    She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.
    And the whole being the one carrying the child thing.

    I agree wiggle16 though.


  • #49
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Feisar wrote: »
    She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

    No, it's because as a pregnant woman she is at a higher risk of various things, including domestic violence and pregnancy complications that very well may be life threatening to her as well as her child. So the additional duty of care is very much for her as the person is who actually gestating a child

    But go ahead and start a campaign for fathers to receive ante natal care if you want and to be asked to verify that their partner is being truthful when asked about various things. I'm sure that will go down well. Maybe demand a bed in hospital so you can spend time with your wife and new son too. Or a private room so your sleep isn't disturbed by crying babies after the hardship of you going through labour. Lol


  • #50
    KikiLaRue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭KikiLaRue


    Feisar wrote: »
    She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

    Yes, your child which she is carrying. On her own. She’s the one who’s body is changing radically, who’s hormones are all over the place. The baby will not come out of your vagina.

    You are an equal parent but you are not an equal partner in the pregnancy.


  • #51
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    Lorenzo Tasteless Timekeeper wrote: »
    Wtf? She's actually carrying the child and you feel you're "entitled" to the same duty of care? They'll ask her how she's coping and if she's drinking/smoking.

    I'm not entitled to anything hell I'm just the sperm donor.

    Asking her if sees smoking/drinking is the same as asking me if she's safe!

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • #52
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    wiggle16 wrote: »
    I don't agree with doctors/nurses asking the pregnant woman's partner if she smokes or drinks or whatnot, obviously. They are there to provide care for her through her pregnancy, not police her. But myself I thought Feisar's wider point was interesting. I wasn't aware that questions about domestic abuse were a standard thing in antenatal care, and I'm glad to know it's there and happens.

    However, I suppose as a parallel point, I don't think it would be objectionable for a doctor or nurse to ask the father-to-be if he has any concerns relating to the pregnancy. And I mean that in a very general way, not with a view towards "yes, she smokes 20 a day", more like "I feel stupid asking her this, but is XYZ normal during pregnancy?" - obviously he is not entitled to the same duty of care, not by any stretch of the imagination, he's not a patient. But he is involved, and I don't see the harm in that kind of inclusion.

    I completely agree with your point that the father should be included and any concerns addressed. There is no harm in that and would be Benefial for everyone but a huge difference to asking does she smoke or drink.

    I imagine the question about safety is for both the mother and child and in the one in a thousand or ten thousand that are unsafe feel that they can speak up then it should be asked.


  • #53
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Feisar wrote: »
    She's being afforded this additional duty of care not for herself but because of our child.

    Not for herself? Are you for real?

    Who do you think is at risk and will go through huge changes mentally and physically? You think healthcare is for the baby only?

    Honestly I give up. This argument is too stupid.


  • #54
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,093 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    I didn't give birth in Ireland but are ante natal classes offered there for couples at all? We did an nct one in the UK but the nhs also offered them for free. Those are a good time for prospective fathers to ask questions and learn a bit more about the process and are definitely worth it.


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Feisar wrote: »
    I'm not entitled to anything hell I'm just the sperm donor.

    Asking her if sees smoking/drinking is the same as asking me if she's safe!

    She's pregnant, you aren't. She's not just an incubator for your baby.

    As an adult, I'm sure she can answer questions about smoking or drinking without it being double checked with you to make sure she's not lying about it.


  • #56
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,704 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    I didn't give birth in Ireland but are ante natal classes offered there for couples at all? We did an nct one in the UK but the nhs also offered them for free. Those are a good time for prospective fathers to ask questions and learn a bit more about the process and are definitely worth it.

    When I went the fathers went to some of the classes. Also when I was getting scans or anything like that if there were questions from the father they were generally handled very well and we were both explained anything that was going on or concerns.


  • #57
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Feisar wrote: »
    ??? Why is it a bizarre post? She's being treated differently as she is carrying our child. Am I not entitled to the same duty of care as she is, being asked these additional questions due to being pregnant with our child.

    No , why would you be entitled to same duty of care ? Are you pregnant ? Carrying a child ? About to give birth ?
    Honestly get a grip . The mother and child are the primary focus here


  • #58
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    No, it's because as a pregnant woman she is at a higher risk of various things, including domestic violence and pregnancy complications that very well may be life threatening to her as well as her child. So the additional duty of care is very much for her as the person is who actually gestating a child

    But go ahead and start a campaign for fathers to receive ante natal care if you want and to be asked to verify that their partner is being truthful when asked about various things. I'm sure that will go down well. Maybe demand a bed in hospital so you can spend time with your wife and new son too. Or a private room so your sleep isn't disturbed by crying babies after the hardship of you going through labour. Lol

    No need to be a dick about it lol

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #59
    Feisar
    Registered Users Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭Feisar


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    No , why would you be entitled to same duty of care ? Are you pregnant ? Carrying a child ? About to give birth ?
    Honestly get a grip . The mother and child are the primary focus here

    Right, I'll try again.

    She's asked does she feel safe in her home. She's not asked this when she goes to the doctor generally, it's because she is pregnant. So the question mustn't be for her it's for the unborn child. Which is ours. So following this logic if it's also mine, why am I not being asked is she keeping her end up also?

    First they came for the socialists...



  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Feisar wrote: »
    Right, I'll try again.

    She's asked does she feel safe in her home. She's not asked this when she goes to the doctor generally, it's because she is pregnant. So the question mustn't be for her it's for the unborn child. Which is ours. So following this logic if it's also mine, why am I not being asked is she keeping her end up also?

    The question is because pregnant women (not just walking incubators) are particularly vulnerable to abuse as was outlined earlier. She's not being asked because she's carrying your baby, she's being asked because she's a person.

    And you think it's acceptable that an adult womans doctor checks with her partner that she's not lying about smoking or drinking?

    You are starting to sound resentful that your wife is getting attention and you aren't.

    She's pregnant. You aren't. You don't get to control her healthcare.


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  • #61
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Feisar wrote: »
    Right, I'll try again.

    She's asked does she feel safe in her home. She's not asked this when she goes to the doctor generally, it's because she is pregnant. So the question mustn't be for her it's for the unborn child. Which is ours. So following this logic if it's also mine, why am I not being asked is she keeping her end up also?

    Its been explained to you in the thread that pregnancy has been shown to put women at risk of domestic abuse . They are also at a higher risk of being abused post natal . So I think you really should understand that this question is about the mother and her baby and keeping them safe
    So right then its about her and just live with it that you are not the focus of attention


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