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US Presidential Election 2020

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Comments

  • #62
    Dog Man Star
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭Dog Man Star


    Elizabeth Warren is fantastic candidate. I was watching her lectures on YouTube on the demise of the middle class before I knew she was a senator.

    Warren is the absolute best candidate they can vote for. A Harvard professor in Economics. Championing equality to all and a solution to the gap in middle class politics.

    Nah, the US wants a wreckless moron in power, not an intelligent woman.


  • #63
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    Honestly the key to getting Trump booted out ultimately is getting the Democrat vote out more so than anything and his BS certainly could help with that in the key swing states. Think the biggest problem with the 2016 election was people weren't motivated to vote for Hillary from the democrats unlike Obama to get out and vote enough and The Troll essentially managed to slip through where it mattered. The whole thing is though that if the Democrat's want to truly win they need to shift away from identity politics because that sort of crap does alienate people. Need to focus on the important stuff and sideline the idiotic crap.


  • #64
    breatheme
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    It would've been interesting to see Warren run in 2016. I'd like to see someone younger in 2020, but I would still be totally behind her.


  • #65
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,484 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    What about Martin Heinrich? He is 46, no skeletons, very good history although I don't think there is any military service. His surname doesn't help him a great deal but he can talk and never seems to get rattled.

    Imo Warren would make a great President but I don't think she'd get elected and I don't think the Dems would take a chance on another woman candidate after losing the last one with Hilary.


  • #66
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,783 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Need to look into Warren, sounds like my kind of person, but with the wacky way American politics is going, I won't be surprised if trump gets a second term, as their system isn't exactly democratic.


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  • #67
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Infini wrote: »
    Honestly the key to getting Trump booted out ultimately is getting the Democrat vote out more so than anything and his BS certainly could help with that in the key swing states. Think the biggest problem with the 2016 election was people weren't motivated to vote for Hillary from the democrats unlike Obama to get out and vote enough and The Troll essentially managed to slip through where it mattered. The whole thing is though that if the Democrat's want to truly win they need to shift away from identity politics because that sort of crap does alienate people. Need to focus on the important stuff and sideline the idiotic crap.

    Mod: Dial back the name calling please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #68
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Need to look into Warren, sounds like my kind of person, but with the wacky way American politics is going, I won't be surprised if trump gets a second term, as their system isn't exactly democratic.

    Well, if they put up a good candidate, who has a reasonable message (I.e. something other than “I am not Trump”) and who campaigns somewhat intelligently, there is no reason why they cannot soundly defeat Trump. The system is about as democratic as any other representative system.

    I am fairly sure they will not make mistake number 3 again (not campaigning intelligently), the problem is that items 1 and 2 thus far seem to be a bit lacking. Fail in those two items, and I don’t care what voting structure you have, you aren’t likely to win.


  • #69
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Need to look into Warren, sounds like my kind of person, but with the wacky way American politics is going, I won't be surprised if trump gets a second term, as their system isn't exactly democratic.

    You'd think that and then you see how "Zionistic" she can be. No dice.

    https://mondoweiss.net/2018/06/expect-elizabeth-critical/


    There's loads down the years on her.

    She would be particularly unpalatable to GOPpers so no way she would get a sniff at the top job.

    The Dems need another Clinton (Bill) type.


  • #70
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,200 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    You may not have caught this opinion/analysis piece on CNN a few days ago which also covers the attest of the split Democrat vote.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/12/opinions/democrats-have-to-choose-victory-over-ideology-opinion-harrop/index.html
    But Ocasio-Cortez took the movement path, putting her energies into helping defeat, not Republicans in November, but "establishment" Democrats in the primaries. So she and Sanders jetted around the country, endorsing left-wingers sure to lose in a general election.
    Democratic primary voters generally ignored them. <snip>

    At some point, so-called establishment Democrats should stop trying to win the far-left's love -- unwinnable because they are not part of the movement -- and tell them this: If you didn't come to ultimately work for the party, you entered the party's primaries for the wrong reason.

    This is something the Republicans have obviously figured out. Trump was not, and to this day I believe still is not, the preferred Republican candidate amongst their voters, but there is no denying that they are very willing to come out and support someone they don’t find ideal if it at least means their party will win.

    Somewhat warren-related quote. https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/01/opinions/democrats-mistake-abolish-ice-platform-zelizer/index.html
    On a Saturday when Americans across the country took to the streets to protest President Donald Trump's hardline shift on immigration policy, more and more prominent Democrats -- from Sen. Elizabeth Warren to Sen. Kristin Gillibrand -- used their voices to advocate for ending ICE as we know it. <snip> While focusing on ICE is an extremely important debate, and dismantling the agency might the be the best policy decision, it carries enormous short-term political risks for the Democrats going into the midterm elections

    Again, this seems to be a case of the Democrats as a national body ignoring what is important to win the winnable states, but as the first article observed, the local voters are voting with local interests.


  • #71
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    So anybody any the wiser after the mid terms?:)


    If the mods could add O Rourke, Avenatti, Holder, Newsom and Gabbard that would be great.

    Looking at the betting think the poll will have all the contenders now!

    https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2020/democrat-candidate


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  • #72
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    So anybody any the wiser after the mid terms?:)


    Not at all. I still think that Biden offers the best chance of being elected POTUS but I still don't know if he'll go for it. Others there are going to have to overcome being black and/or female.

    O Rourke could have a chance, given what he achieved in Texas. I'm not too impressed with his speaking style but it was clearly effective enough. I've no idea of his appeal outside of texas so it's hard to make a guess about his abilities on a national level.

    I'd like to write off Avenatti but it's hard to write off anything anymore. I view him as a bit of a self-promoting clown. An intelligent clown but a clown none the less. He'd have no chance if the primaries and election were held tomorrow but in two years time, who knows.

    In short. I haven't a clue.


  • #73
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Beto' has really shaken the market, and may be the Dems best hope.
    He's now the 4th Fav for POTUS20, one bookie actually has him 2nd, after Donald.

    Seems like a whiter version of Barry O', and O'Rourke has a genuine Irish surname, as opposed to what J'Kerry done in an attempt to market himself better.


  • #74
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Powers & Sky just moved Beto into 3rd fav position within the last few hours.

    Gaining 48.3% in Tex is no mean feat. Looks like the Dems have found their man.
    It's gets better, he's young, has a Mex nickname, along with Irish-American (4th gen) ancestry.

    That would certainly secure the dreamers, not to mention a bag of Ire E-3's after '20.
    However has a slightly checkerd past, and questions on ability to fundraise, and border control remain.


  • #75
    postername1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭postername1


    democrats are unpatriotic
    they are for open borders, crime
    they hate our freedom and our Constitution


  • #76
    Pa8301
    Closed Accounts Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Pa8301


    postername1 wrote: »
    democrats are unpatriotic
    they are for open borders, crime
    they hate our freedom and our Constitution

    The Democrats hate Bunreacht na hEireann?


  • #77
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Had he won Texas then O'Rourke would likely be favourite in 2020 to become president.

    As it stands I don't see him being in the final shakeup for the Dems nomination. While it would be great to see an actual progressive in the White House I think we are a few decades away from that yet in the States.


  • #78
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Had he won Texas then O'Rourke would likely be favourite in 2020 to become president.

    As it stands I don't see him being in the final shakeup for the Dems nomination. While it would be great to see an actual progressive in the White House I think we are a few decades away from that yet in the States.


  • #79
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,138 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    It was neither an endorsement or condemnation of trump really. Plenty of Americans are obviously quite happy with him.


  • #80
    breatheme
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    I think O'Rourke would at least be a great pick for Vice President. He would make an ideal running mate if not the actual presidential candidate. If it's not him, whoever did run would be an idiot not to pick him.


  • #81
    VonZan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭VonZan


    breatheme wrote: »
    I think O'Rourke would at least be a great pick for Vice President. He would make an ideal running mate if not the actual presidential candidate. If it's not him, whoever did run would be an idiot not to pick him.

    I think 2020 is possibly too early for him. I think the problem for the DNC is that one of the big guns is probably going to throw their hat in the ring and want to take on Trump. They'll want to avoid diving the party again so you have to imagine someone like O'Rourke or Harris would be in with a good shot.

    I think Sanders would have beaten Trump and a candidate like O'Rourke who doesn't have the political baggage of a Warren, Pelosi or even Harris would certainly be appealing but it's hard to believe that the Democrats in both houses would be able to really be able to pass on any of their policies as their is simply not the number of progressives in both houses. It will be 10+ years before you will see much change from the status quo unless you get another Obama.


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  • #82
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Pa8301 wrote: »
    The Democrats hate Bunreacht na hEireann?

    I'm beginning to hate Bunreacht nahEireann with some of the stuff they have been putting in and taking out of it lately.


  • #83
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,207 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Had he won Texas then O'Rourke would likely be favourite in 2020 to become president.

    Ah, if he had won there is no way he could have run in 2020 I think. Would have been way too quick with him basically spending no time actually being a senator at all.


  • #84
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Misael Bewildered Sobriety wrote: »
    Powers & Sky just moved Beto into 3rd fav position within the last few hours.

    Gaining 48.3% in Tex is no mean feat. Looks like the Dems have found their man.
    It's gets better, he's young, has a Mex nickname, along with Irish-American (4th gen) ancestry.

    That would certainly secure the dreamers, not to mention a bag of Ire E-3's after '20.
    However has a slightly checkerd past, and questions on ability to fundraise, and border control remain.

    What is Ire E-3 short for ?

    Honest question


  • #85
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,484 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    The smart move for the Dems is to give Trump a second term imo.
    The longer he gets the more boring he becomes.
    In six years time Joe Kennedy III will be 44, perfect age for a two term POTUS.

    If they still want Kennedy's after that JFK's grandson would be around the right age to succeed him.


  • #86
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    The argument for Beto O'Rourke in 2020 is this, and it's a persuasive one.

    What the Democrats need above all to win is energy and excitement.

    Turnout is key. It's all about turnout, turnout, turnout. If the Democrats push the turnout up, they win.

    Hillary Clinton got 3.87 million votes in Texas in 2016.

    O'Rourke pushed that up above 4 million. In a mid-term senate election. I don't have the stats for sure on this but I'd strongly wager that outside of California, that's the second biggest mid-term vote anybody has ever pulled, ever.

    I strongly feel that to beat Trump, the Democrats need to be bold, positive and brave in their choice of candidate, with bold policy positions. Maybe a more traditional Democrat like Biden can win, but he would be a conservative choice, borne of fear and a defensive position, fighting on Trump's terms.

    I think the whole point of O'Rourke is that he is the epitome of youth, boldness, energy, positivity and bravery who can offer a polar opposite to everything Trump is.

    Michael Moore said yesterday that to beat Trump, you need "a beloved American". Is Biden "a beloved American"? He's respected for sure, but beloved? Obama, in that campaign in 2008, became beloved in America, and it's not difficult to see O'Rourke having a similar dynamic. He certainly had it in Texas this time.

    For sure, he could wait until 2024, but maybe the Democrats will already the White House by then - O'Rourke is certainly not the only potential Democratic candidate who can win - and moments don't last forever. Sometimes when you see a chance you just have to go for it rather wait for one that might never arrive. For years Paul Ryan was seen as the future of the Republican party and a future president. Now he looks finished. Hillary Clinton was eight years in waiting after 2008 and when the time eventually came, things didn't go well.

    Obama went for his chance early and took it because he was right for that moment in time. I suspect O'Rourke might be the right man at the right time for Democrats now.


  • #87
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    What is Ire E-3 short for ?

    Honest question

    Google: E3 Visa.

    It really doesn't matter what it's called, it's a handy visa for a few thousand highly skilled locals that don't fancy half their net wages on rent, not to mention bad weather, poor public services, crime and tracksuit zombies.


  • #88
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    What is Ire E-3 short for ?

    Honest question

    It's a 2-year working Visa which is only offered to Australia.

    However the Aussies only use half of their allocation so there's a bill before the House to expand its eligibility to Irish citizens.


  • #89
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Misael Bewildered Sobriety wrote: »
    Google: E3 Visa.

    It really doesn't matter what it's called, it's a handy visa for a few thousand highly skilled locals that don't fancy half their net wages on rent, not to mention bad weather, poor public services, crime and tracksuit zombies.

    But only citizens can vote in US elections so it does not matter how many of them like O'Rourke or hate Trump.


  • #90
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But only citizens can vote in US elections so it does not matter how many people on time like O'Rourke or hate Trump.

    That's irrelevant. The point was, that Beto would be of benefit to the young Irish here, that might want to spend a couple of years working somewhere else.

    Then again Trump was considering changing the DV lottery, whether that means blacklisting certain countries, increasing the 'european share', or stopping the program altogether, is hard to know for sure.


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  • #91
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 14,990 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Misael Bewildered Sobriety wrote: »
    That's irrelevant. The point was, that Beto would be of benefit to the young Irish here, that might want to spend a couple of years working somewhere else.

    Then again Trump was considering changing the DV lottery, whether that means blacklisting certain countries, increasing the 'european share', or stopping the program altogether, is hard to know for sure.

    How so exactly?

    That's a huge assumption to make.

    I'd be far more confident of a republican administration being more favourable to Irish skilled workers than a democrat one.


This discussion has been closed.
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