Landlord 'Choice' programme

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 10:49am #1

Just saw this launched in New Zealand.
Its a programme called 'Landlord's Choice'.
Essentially its course for tenants which teaches them how to be model tenants, earning a certificate, valid for 1 year, which they can then present to prospective landlords to differentiate themselves from other tenants as a responsible tenant choice for a landlord.

The course teaches tenants how to ventilate properties, the rules of living in apartment and other co-living developments, why we ventilate property and how best to do so, heating homes- how to make it work to their advantage, rubbish collections, how to run a home incl. simple ongoing maintenance (such as changing lightbulbs), why landlords need to be made aware immediately of plumbing or electrical issues, how to get on better with neighbours etc etc

Link to an article describing the scheme and why the landlord who came up with it is getting death threats etc here.

What do people think?

Mrs OBumble · 22-10-2020 11:34am

Sounds a bit like ECDL, ie if someone was so low skilled that they needed to go on the course, that's a red-flag in itself.

Fol20 · 22-10-2020 11:53am

A 1 year cert isn’t very long imo. But I would like something like this. You would be surprised at how little some tenants know.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 11:54am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Sounds a bit like ECDL, ie if someone was so low skilled that they needed to go on the course, that's a red-flag in itself.

Maybe- however, it does show a landlord that a prospective tenant is vested in looking after the property, and has at least some notion of how to manage their home and their interactions with the neighbours etc?

There are people out there who literally don't have a clue. This is a manner of pre-selecting a cohort of prospective tenants to mitigate against the completely ignorant people who simply haven't got a clue what it means to live in their own home and have to do the daily chores etc.

It could be viewed as a win-win for both tenants and landlords- and ideally most of the bits and pieces taught on the course should be taught to everyone, not just prospective tenants.

Allinall · 22-10-2020 11:55am

They should have a similar course for landlords. Compulsory.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 11:57am

Fol20 wrote: »

A 1 year cert isn’t very long imo. But I would like something like this. You would be surprised at how little some tenants know.

The reason its only a 1 year cert- is to allow for a changing regulatory environment- where what is the law today might be verboten tomorrow (the example the landlord who came up with the scheme used in a radio interview was smoking in properties- it could be legal today- but forbidden tomorrow).

NZ has a rapidly evolving regulatory environment- not dissimilar to Ireland's (though a good deal less onerous- and with more rights for landlords- such as access to bad tenant databases and also access Experian/Equixax and other credit checks.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 11:58am

Allinall wrote: »

They should have a similar course for landlords. Compulsory.

I agree- and home owners too.
The number of completely clueless people out there is staggering.
Ideally a lot of the things should be taught to people in school- perhaps in civics or something- they are life skills, and should be taught to absolutely everyone.

punisher5112 · 22-10-2020 12:01pm

Do you know what would be better some personal responsibility, people held to account and deposit scheme where protections are in place.
If one destroys a property then they pay.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 12:12pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Do you know what would be better some personal responsibility, people held to account and deposit scheme where protections are in place.
If one destroys a property then they pay.

Easier said than done.
Also- 1 month's rent as a deposit is a drop in the ocean if a tenant damages a property.
Doing away with deposits altogether- in favour of a tenant paid insurance scheme- priced according to a tenants credit rating and prior insurance claims history- might be a runner- however, you still have the issue, what to do with tenants who cause damage that isn't covered (or indeed, what to do with tenants whose policies lapse etc).

The current system, obviously, does not work.
What do you replace it with though?
How could tenants be incentivised so the better tenants don't end up paying for the worse tenants?

punisher5112 · 22-10-2020 12:15pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Easier said than done.
Also- 1 month's rent as a deposit is a drop in the ocean if a tenant damages a property.
Doing away with deposits altogether- in favour of a tenant paid insurance scheme- priced according to a tenants credit rating and prior insurance claims history- might be a runner- however, you still have the issue, what to do with tenants who cause damage that isn't covered (or indeed, what to do with tenants whose policies lapse etc).

The current system, obviously, does not work.
What do you replace it with though?
How could tenants be incentivised so the better tenants don't end up paying for the worse tenants?

Deposit held by third party.
Court system change and money to be paid if damages made.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 12:20pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Deposit held by third party.
Court system change and money to be paid if damages made.

How do you levy a fine or simply damages on a tenant who pleads penury?
Or a landlord who is fined for failure to uphold their regulatory requirments- and simply doesn't have money.
I'd suggest a sizable minority of both landlords and tenants are in this boat.
No-one wants to be collecting 5 Euro a week for the next 25 years..........

DubCount · 22-10-2020 12:51pm

Asking a tenant to do something? Cant see that happening.

Our lot would probably make it illegal to discriminate against people without a cert.

Fol20 · 22-10-2020 12:54pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Easier said than done.
Also- 1 month's rent as a deposit is a drop in the ocean if a tenant damages a property.
Doing away with deposits altogether- in favour of a tenant paid insurance scheme- priced according to a tenants credit rating and prior insurance claims history- might be a runner- however, you still have the issue, what to do with tenants who cause damage that isn't covered (or indeed, what to do with tenants whose policies lapse etc).

The current system, obviously, does not work.
What do you replace it with though?
How could tenants be incentivised so the better tenants don't end up paying for the worse tenants?

Interesting take on the insurance vs deposit system. As a landlord. I’d prefer this insurance type setup vs deposits. Could it be built into the rent where it’s an extra few percent on top of whatever the rent is and the onus is then on the landlord to pay this to whomever the insurance company is. At least the landlord will have visibility to ensure it is paid on time.

Limpy · 22-10-2020 12:57pm

Com er boss im on disability and av to mind d kids how can you not give me a house. I can't do no college course it took me 5 years to get outta the FAS.

Graces7 · 22-10-2020 1:39pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Easier said than done.
Also- 1 month's rent as a deposit is a drop in the ocean if a tenant damages a property.

I enjoy house spotting on rightmove.uk.

At one old stone cottage , beautifully renovated, the landlord is asking 7 months deposit.

It has been empty a while now.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 2:07pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I enjoy house spotting on rightmove.uk.

At one old stone cottage , beautifully renovated, the landlord is asking 7 months deposit.

It has been empty a while now.

It depends on the location- but the landlord may very well negotiate on the deposit if he/she feels they have found the right tenant. Also- if it is a very tasteful period cottage that has just been sympathetically renovated, perhaps a deposit of 7 months rent is warranted- cognisant of the cost of remedying any damage that a tenant might cause?

It all depends really. In general the Irish and UK rule of thumb is first month's rent in advance and 1 month's rent as a deposit. This is almost unique in the western world- in general if you go to any other country the deposit is several month's rent- in some cases, possibly even 1 year's rent in advance.

It all depends. I know I'd love to live in a sympathetically restored stone cottage- it sounds idyllic, could I afford to- thats a completely different question.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 22-10-2020 2:13pm

The landlord should be allowed access to the tenant's PPS number.

If they cause damage, 75% of their income, single mother's allowance etc, is deducted at source until the damage is paid

listermint · 22-10-2020 2:14pm

Good idea, tenant and landlord training.

coupled with a state sponsored Escrow system for deposits.

I think this would be ideal, and guidelines/rules for long term renting

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 2:19pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

The landlord should be allowed access to the tenant's PPS number.

If they cause damage, 75% of their income, single mother's allowance etc, is deducted at source until the damage is paid

Landlords have access to tenant's PPSNs - they need them to register the tenancies with the RTB. As for deducting 75% of someone's income at source if they cause damage- that is so never going to happen. Typically- it would be between 1 and 5 Euro a week- and the repayment frequently stretches across decades.

The landlord is viewed as being a cashcow.

Graces7 · 22-10-2020 2:36pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

It depends on the location- but the landlord may very well negotiate on the deposit if he/she feels they have found the right tenant. Also- if it is a very tasteful period cottage that has just been sympathetically renovated, perhaps a deposit of 7 months rent is warranted- cognisant of the cost of remedying any damage that a tenant might cause?

It all depends really. In general the Irish and UK rule of thumb is first month's rent in advance and 1 month's rent as a deposit. This is almost unique in the western world- in general if you go to any other country the deposit is several month's rent- in some cases, possibly even 1 year's rent in advance.

It all depends. I know I'd love to live in a sympathetically restored stone cottage- it sounds idyllic, could I afford to- thats a completely different question.

It was £700 a month. I only look at under that sum...And in the Yorkshire Dales area. It struck me as unusual because as you say, the custom is one month' s rent. The snag was that he was not including the various outbuildings.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 22-10-2020 2:37pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Landlords have access to tenant's PPSNs - they need them to register the tenancies with the RTB. As for deducting 75% of someone's income at source if they cause damage- that is so never going to happen. Typically- it would be between 1 and 5 Euro a week- and the repayment frequently stretches across decades.

The landlord is viewed as being a cashcow.

Christ. Does the landlord have to chase up those payments or are they guaranteed?

Hardly seems worth it driving out to collect a fiver a week.

The_Conductor · 22-10-2020 3:48pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

Christ. Does the landlord have to chase up those payments or are they guaranteed?

Hardly seems worth it driving out to collect a fiver a week.

Thats precisely why so few landlords bother chasing it- its so cumbersome and expensive to chase, its simply not worth it. If its low enough- and stretched over 25-30 years, its no deterrent factor whatsoever for the tenant either.

The system is broken.

handlemaster · 22-10-2020 5:47pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Deposit held by third party.
Court system change and money to be paid if damages made.

Deposit covers very little when tenants do not care and cause real damage..even the small stuff . Broken door hole in a wall can add up very.quickly.

Graces7 · 23-10-2020 5:48am

DubCount wrote: »

Asking a tenant to do something? Cant see that happening.

Our lot would probably make it illegal to discriminate against people without a cert.

:eek:

And surely if someone has excellent references from a previous landlord no certificate would be needed.

The_Conductor · 23-10-2020 7:31am

Graces7 wrote: »

:eek:

And surely if someone has excellent references from a previous landlord no certificate would be needed.

The way it was being sold in NZ is that it would assist first time renters- who do not have references from a former landlord to fall back on.

Either way- and no disrespect intended to the kids of today- it would be helpful for many people, not necessarily those renting, to do such a course- as it seems to cover many of the bases for living skills, that appear to be alien to kids of today (I've lost count of the number of lightbulbs I've changed for neighbours- or the number of neighbours who have needed to have how to use their heating explained to them. As for what goes in recycling and what spoils the entire collection and gets a bill for spoilage- its not rocket science).

People need to have life skills taught to them. It appears its not happening.

Lux23 · 23-10-2020 1:49pm

The thing about deposits is that it shouldn't be held by the landlord, I would happily pay three months if the money was in an escrow system to be paid back once the landlord is happy with the property. The system should take into tenant upgrades too like we bought all new furniture, a new oven and a new shower yet the landlord won't take that into account.

The_Conductor · 23-10-2020 2:17pm

Lux23 wrote: »

The thing about deposits is that it shouldn't be held by the landlord, I would happily pay three months if the money was in an escrow system to be paid back once the landlord is happy with the property. The system should take into tenant upgrades too like we bought all new furniture, a new oven and a new shower yet the landlord won't take that into account.

Did you purchase them with the agreement of the landlord?
Why?
Were the pre-existing appliances/furniture not fit for purpose?
Were they abused/destroyed by a previous tenant?
Was the invoice for the goods presented to the landlord (if the goods were bought with his/her agreement)?
What happened to the pre-existing goods- were they discarded, or were they stored for the landlord so they could be reinstated at the end of the tenancy?

Thats the problem with renting furnished property- I think a majority of both landlords and tenants would rather an unfurnished option were made available- instead of relying on knackered appliances and decrepit furniture.

If you were to rent in almost any other country (with the exception of the UK)- unfurnished is the norm rather than the exception. Yet, we insist in perpetuating a system that doesn't suit either tenants or landlords here.........

With respect of deposits- would you be willing to pay a monthly bond to a bond agency to insure the property- which would be returnable to you at the end of the tenancy in full, less any damage over and above normal wear and tear- ontop of a 3 month deposit upfront (aka the longer you are in the property- the more you have to loose if you don't keep your side of the deal, and the more you have to gain from keeping the property in good order). It could be funded by landlords as part of the annual registration fee that is currently paid to the RTB. Failure to pay the monthly bond would result in an immediate breach of the tenancy- and would be grounds for an expedited eviction.

Graces7 · 23-10-2020 2:21pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The way it was being sold in NZ is that it would assist first time renters- who do not have references from a former landlord to fall back on.

Either way- and no disrespect intended to the kids of today- it would be helpful for many people, not necessarily those renting, to do such a course- as it seems to cover many of the bases for living skills, that appear to be alien to kids of today (I've lost count of the number of lightbulbs I've changed for neighbours- or the number of neighbours who have needed to have how to use their heating explained to them. As for what goes in recycling and what spoils the entire collection and gets a bill for spoilage- its not rocket science).

People need to have life skills taught to them. It appears its not happening.

@ thing without risking a fall as the ceiling is very high. The " stem" etc are still in the socket And I hesitate to ask anyone lest they think I am helpless! I cope as I have a small torch to hand..lol…

Seriously why don't schools teach this?

dennyk · 23-10-2020 8:18pm

Graces7 wrote: »

@ thing without risking a fall as the ceiling is very high.

True enough; I have balance issues and can't climb a ladder. There's no way I'd be able to change the bulbs in my sitting room ceiling fixture that's ~4m high... Fortunately I never use that light anyway as it's too bright.

Still, I don't doubt there are some hopeless cases out there that ring the landlord every time a bulb in their table lamp goes out because they're too cheap to buy a replacement themselves.

Fol20 · 24-10-2020 12:28pm

dennyk wrote: »

True enough; I have balance issues and can't climb a ladder. There's no way I'd be able to change the bulbs in my sitting room ceiling fixture that's ~4m high... Fortunately I never use that light anyway as it's too bright.

Still, I don't doubt there are some hopeless cases out there that ring the landlord every time a bulb in their table lamp goes out because they're too cheap to buy a replacement themselves.

If you have a medical issue that’s completely understandable but the majority of people just don’t know how to do it or choose not to know. I had a call out once with a new tenant that had just moved in a week earlier claiming the washing machine wasn’t working. I was away at the time so couldn’t go to inspect myself so called my plumber. In the end. There was nothing wrong with it and the tenant just didn’t know how to use a washing machine.... when you have people like this it gives everyone a bad name.

@grace If you can’t reach the roof. Are you able to go up up on a chair or ladder to do it?

Graces7 · 24-10-2020 12:39pm

Fol20 wrote: »

If you have a medical issue that’s completely understandable but the majority of people just don’t know how to do it or choose not to know. I had a call out once with a new tenant that had just moved in a week earlier claiming the washing machine wasn’t working. I was away at the time so could go to inspect myself so called my plumber. In the end. There was nothing wrong with it and the tenant just didn’t know how to use a washing machine.... when you have people like this it gives everyone a bad name.

@grace I’d you can’t reach the roof. Are you able to go up up on a chair or ladder to do it?

It is in the centre of the room etc and a high centred ceiling . My balance is now desperately poor, and as the old bulb is impacted, a two handed job. I am used to it now! Light comes in from the corridor.. I am very able around the house. How anyone can not know how to work a washing machine ! The bulb in the corridor is lower and I can reach that with a stepstool .

I had the same trouble with a previous rental with the bathroom light. Will be fine!

And schools maybe should run a course on this .

Landlord 'Choice' programme

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