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JFK Assassination Autopsy Details Revealed After 55 Years

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    #1532
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    A Phone Call that Links Oswald to Military Intelligence?

    Mrs. Treon's LD call slip has collect call noted on it. A collect call is from prisoners in Jails and Prison.I'm fairly certain Mr Hurt can afford his phone bill? And why would he leave his details, address, name, phone number, if he was making a prank call from his home?

    520993.png


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    #1533
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Mrs. Treon's LD call slip has collect call noted on it. A collect call is from prisoners in Jails and Prison.I'm fairly certain Mr Hurt can afford his phone bill? And why would he leave his details, address, name, phone number, if he was making a prank call from his home?

    Mrs. Treon's LD call slip, allegedly signed by Louise Swinney.

    "I showed Louise Swinney, a Xerox copy of the slip containing information on a phone call placed by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Hurt, Raleigh, N.C. on November 23, 1963 and bearing her signature. She stated that it was definitely [ sic. ] not her signature. She was upset that someone had signed her name. She stated that she never handled a call from Oswald to John Hurt. She stated that she only handled a call from Oswald to Lawyer Apt [ sic. ] and another one that she cannot remember, but it was not to John Hurt. Mrs. Swinney insisted on giving me samples of her handwriting and told me that she would have no reason to lie."


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    #1534
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Mrs. Treon's LD call slip, allegedly signed by Louise Swinney.

    "I showed Louise Swinney, a Xerox copy of the slip containing information on a phone call placed by Lee Harvey Oswald to John Hurt, Raleigh, N.C. on November 23, 1963 and bearing her signature. She stated that it was definitely [ sic. ] not her signature. She was upset that someone had signed her name. She stated that she never handled a call from Oswald to John Hurt. She stated that she only handled a call from Oswald to Lawyer Apt [ sic. ] and another one that she cannot remember, but it was not to John Hurt. Mrs. Swinney insisted on giving me samples of her handwriting and told me that she would have no reason to lie."

    Provide the source for this statement.


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    #1535
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Provide the source for this statement.

    Again, its in the article I posted.

    The one that you called nonsense yet obviously didn't even read.


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    #1536
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Again, its in the article I posted.

    The one that you called nonsense yet obviously didn't even read.

    Mrs Treon signed it for her at the end, because Swinney put the note in the trash can after the Two agents left the room. She's the one who handled the call that night, and Mrs Treon kept it when she left the room. Mrs Swinney's narrative does make sense since it's her handwriting on the note, including John Hurt name, home address, phone.


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    #1537
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Mrs. Treon's LD call slip has collect call noted on it. A collect call is from prisoners in Jails and Prison.I'm fairly certain Mr Hurt can afford his phone bill? And why would he leave his details, address, name, phone number, if he was making a prank call from his home?

    520993.png

    a collect call can be made from any phone, not just from a jail or prison.


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    #1538
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    a collect call can be made from any phone, not just from a jail or prison.

    He supposedly made the phone call from his home address. This is the 60s so why would the Jail accept a prank call (especially when it alleged he was drunk?) the switchboard operators would have to accept the charge.


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    #1539
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    He supposedly made the phone call from his home address. This is the 60s so why would the Jail accept a prank call (especially when it alleged he was drunk?) the switchboard operators would have to accept the charge.

    the switchboard operators do not accept the charges. the person being called is asked if they will accept the charges


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    #1540
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    the switchboard operators do not accept the charges. the person being called is asked if they will accept the charges

    Oswald in the Dallas Jail. The call has to be routed through the switchboard to the jail phone. Someone on the line inside the Jail has to accept the charge. The women who worked the switchboard in the evening, says under oath, the call was attempted by Oswald from inside the Jail and why would she lie? What does she gain from making up this story? How did she know the man details?


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    #1541
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Oswald in the Dallas Jail. The call has to be routed through the switchboard to the jail phone. Someone on the line inside the Jail has to accept the charge. The women who worked the switchboard in the evening, says under oath, the call was attempted by Oswald from inside the Jail and why would she lie? What does she gain from making up this story? How did she know the man details?

    let us back up a little here.

    you said
    I'm fairly certain Mr Hurt can afford his phone bill? And why would he leave his details, address, name, phone number, if he was making a prank call from his home?

    according to the note Hurt did not make the call. he was the person that was called by LHO. but as others have noted the note is bunkum and a fraud. what is the significance of the call, assuming it actually took place?


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    #1542
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    let us back up a little here.

    you said

    according to the note Hurt did not make the call. he was the person that was called by LHO. but as others have noted the note is bunkum and a fraud. what is the significance of the call, assuming it actually took place?

    Story skeptics believe is Mr Hurt phoned the jail when Oswald was inside, and he did it because he was drunk.

    Mr Hurt actually denied ringing the jail and knowing Oswald when HSA investigators came to visit him at his home. Hurt Wife made a new claim after he died her husband indeed phoned the jail.

    Hurt wife story not backed up the woman who was there that night inside the switchboard office. She said two men entered the office when Oswald was scheduled to make calls and Mrs Swinney the office administrator stopped one of the calls from being put through.

    Mrs Swinney wrote down the details (on the note we see today) Oswald gave her these details over the phone to make the collect call. After the two men left the office Mrs Swinney threw the note in the waste bin inside the office. Mrs Treon who was still inside the office after Mrs Swinney went home got the note from the waste bin and kept it.


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    #1543
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Story skeptics believe is Mr Hurt phoned the jail when Oswald was inside, and he did it because he was drunk.

    Mr Hurt actually denied ringing the jail and knowing Oswald when HSA investigators came to visit him at his home. Hurt Wife made a new claim after he died her husband indeed phoned the jail.

    Hurt wife story not backed up the woman who was there that night inside the switchboard office. She said two men entered the office when Oswald was scheduled to make calls and Mrs Swinney the office administrator stopped one of the calls from being put through.

    Mrs Swinney wrote down the details (on the note we see today) Oswald gave her these details over the phone to make the collect call. After the two men left the office Mrs Swinney threw the note in the waste bin inside the office. Mrs Treon who was still inside the office after Mrs Swinney went home got the note from the waste bin and kept it.
    that makes no sense at all. the note says that LHO called hurt not that Hurt called LHO. also you cannot make a collect call to a prisoner in a jail.


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    #1544
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    that makes no sense at all. the note says that LHO called hurt not that Hurt called LHO. also you cannot make a collect call to a prisoner in a jail.

    Well exactly. Skeptics deny the note. They claim Oswald made no call. They believe Hurt Wife story!

    The note evidence Oswald tried to phone an intelligence officer in North Carolina after he got arrested.

    Read the note above,
    "Collect"
    Phone Number "Jail"
    Person Calling Lee Harvey Oswald
    Person Called John Hurt.


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    #1545
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    that makes no sense at all. the note says that LHO called hurt not that Hurt called LHO. also you cannot make a collect call to a prisoner in a jail.

    Most of Cheerfuls theories make no sense. This call has already been addressed and debunked but like a stubborn child, the relevant bits are ignored and the convenient parts are not and just repeated endlessly.


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    #1546
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Most of Cheerfuls theories make no sense. This call has already been addressed and debunked but like a stubborn child, the relevant bits are ignored and the convenient parts are not and just repeated endlessly.

    Mrs Swinney backed up Mrs Treon story of two men coming to the office.
    When HSCA investigator Harold Rose approached 59-year-old Mrs. Swinney and identified himself, he reported she became "very nervous" and asked, "Do I have to talk about it? Are you going to harass me? What will happen to me if I don't talk about it?" After her fears were somewhat allayed, she told Rose that "sometime around 7 p.m., November 23, 1963, she was told by the DPD [Dallas Police Department] that if Oswald tried to make any phone calls, they would send two men to the telephone room to 'tap in on the line.' She stated that about 10 p.m., two DPD homicide detectives came to the telephone room and identified themselves to her." She revealed that "Oswald tried to make two calls," one to "Lawyer Apt." [sic] in New York and she doesn't remember where the other call was to." According to her statement, "she did not put either call through for Oswald."

    http://www.groverproctor.us/jfk/jfk80.html

    She couldn't remember who the second call was for! That significant because Oswald was trying to phone two people from the Jail. Mr Treon kept the evidence from that night who Oswald was trying to phone. Mrs Swinney even admits the neither call was put through, she obviously frightened to reveal everything she knows here.


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    #1547
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    That's factually untrue, the car was fitted with privacy windows. You can see the glass here. Someone would have to deliberately remove the glass for it to be no longer there. Just another angle to the conspiracy ;)
    522278.png

    Thats not a picture of the car as it was on the day. You've just googled the model of the car and found one with glass in it and posted it here.

    The glass was removed, as was the bubble top, on JFKs request.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    she obviously frightened to reveal everything she knows here.

    Oh obviously yeah....


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    #1548
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The Nal wrote: »
    Oh obviously yeah....

    stands to reason, innit?


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    #1549
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Thats not a picture of the car as it was on the day. You've just googled the model of the car and found one with glass in it and posted it here.

    The glass was removed, as was the bubble top, on JFKs request.



    Oh obviously yeah....

    Privacy glass was not plastic. The bubble top was plastic. Someone would have to remove that privacy glass. Everyone knows the bubble top plastic got removed for the day.

    Have you evidence JFK requested the privacy glass also be removed?


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    #1550
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Privacy glass was not plastic. The bubble top was plastic. Someone would have to remove that privacy glass. Everyone knows the bubble top plastic got removed for the day.

    Have you evidence JFK requested the privacy glass also be removed?

    in the picture you posted of JFK in the limo on the day he was assassinated there was clearly no privacy glass installed. The glass is comprised of two panes with a line in the middle where the panes overlap. that overlap is not there on the day of the assassination. who asked for it to be removed is irrelevant. it isn't there. any theories you propose that assume that the glass is there are nonsense from the off.


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    #1551
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    stands to reason, innit?

    Yep if you read the backstory. Hurt and Wife denied making a phone call. That changed when he died. His wife had a new story to tell.
    When interviewed by Surell Brady and members of her investigating staff, both John David Hurt and his wife Billie Hurt adamantly told them the exact same thing they would tell me two years later (see above) — that he had made no calls to the Dallas jail, and that he had received no calls from Oswald. The latter of these two is confirmed by Mrs. Treon's testimony.
    John Hurt died a year after I interviewed him, and one researcher has written that, a year or so after Hurt's death, he got Billie Hurt to finally admit "the truth" about the Raleigh C
    James W. Douglass presented and critiqued that finding in his book JFK and the Unspeakable: Why He Died and Why It Matters" :

    The prank explantation came from a researcher. How do you confirm the story when its hearsay?

    HSCAS investigated John Hurt and supposedly majority of his military records got destroyed in a fire in 1976.
    John David Hurt was a Special Agent in Military Counterintelligence during WWII.
    A month prior to this interview with John Hurt, HSCA Chief Counsel Robert Blakey wrote to Harold Brown, the Secretary of Defense, requesting "access to any and all documents concerning or referring to John David Hurt" and asking that DOD "consider this request a priority matter." It was not until nine days after the HSCA interview with Hurt that John Kester, Special Assistant to the Secretary of Defense, sent a short reply. In it, Kester confirmed Hurt's work in the Army C.I.C., but informed the HSCA that Hurt's Army personnel file was "destroyed in the July 1973 fire at the [National Personnel Records]

    http://www.groverproctor.us/jfk/jfk80.html


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    #1552
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    in the picture you posted of JFK in the limo on the day he was assassinated there was clearly no privacy glass installed. The glass is comprised of two panes with a line in the middle where the panes overlap. that overlap is not there on the day of the assassination. who asked for it to be removed is irrelevant. it isn't there. any theories you propose that assume that the glass is there are nonsense from the off.

    It actually is relevant because the conspiracy involves a host of players. Many believe the murder was an inside job so stripping down the car might be a factor here. Removing the privacy glass for what reason? I understand removing the bubble top but removing the glass serves no purpose for the trip.


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    #1553
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    in the picture you posted of JFK in the limo on the day he was assassinated there was clearly no privacy glass installed. The glass is comprised of two panes with a line in the middle where the panes overlap. that overlap is not there on the day of the assassination. who asked for it to be removed is irrelevant. it isn't there. any theories you propose that assume that the glass is there are nonsense from the off.

    Indeed. Anyway, leaving the bubble top wouldn't have meant he was protected, it wasn't bulletproof. It was plexiglass. And the middle part wouldnt have stopped a bullet either.

    When JFK got the car in 61 he gave a standing order saying if its not raining, no bubble top. Standard procedure.

    Heres the car and the options to strip it. Simply put, no rain, no glass.

    SO2DEORHBOEPNQGVEMVADOCCQY.jpg

    As was the case in sunny Florida 4 days earlier.

    photo_15796039_135852_34460304_ap.jpg

    But not the case in rainy Washington

    2d008d81f739eeace93372195a602bcc.jpg


  • Options
    #1554
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,144 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    It actually is relevant because the conspiracy involves a host of players. Many believe the murder was an inside job so stripping down the car might be a factor here. Removing the privacy glass for what reason? I understand removing the bubble top but removing the glass serves no purpose for the trip.

    until you can show that removing the privacy glass made a material difference to what happened then it is irrelevant. The simplest explanation is that the privacy glass was removed when the top was removed because privacy glass in an open top car is redundant.


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    #1555
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,631 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Either way it likely wasn’t removed so much as lowered.


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    #1556
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,450 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Whatever way you look at it, the below is yet another lie and a waste of everyone's time. Again.
    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    Fundamental problem with that theory is, there is a glass partition in the middle seat of the car. You can even see this on the first photograph i posted. The crack seems to have got caused by an impact from the front ( window outside the driver seated position)


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    #1557
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    The Nal wrote: »
    Whatever way you look at it, the below is yet another lie and a waste of everyone's time. Again.

    Come on, this is the guy who claimed a huge mirror was clearly visible in the rubble of 9-11 so obviously he can see the glass in the car :pac:


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    #1558
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    The Nal wrote: »
    Whatever way you look at it, the below is yet another lie and a waste of everyone's time. Again.

    The crack is on the driver's window, so is not a waste of time. Privacy glass in the middle there or not makes no difference here to the original stated claim a bullet hit the front window.

    Far as we know Connelly wrist and thigh was not missing a piece of bone that lead to the cracking of the front window.

    Fragment of a bullet? We have only one magic bullet here so that means more fragments of that bullet had to impact the window glass.


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    #1559
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Come on, this is the guy who claimed a huge mirror was clearly visible in the rubble of 9-11 so obviously he can see the glass in the car :pac:

    I not the guy proposing this one bullet here injured and maimed two men and cracked the car window. If you believe there was no second shooter, you believe this bullet did all this damage to tissue and bone in both men.

    522358.png


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    #1560
    Cheerful Spring2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,705 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring2


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Come on, this is the guy who claimed a huge mirror was clearly visible in the rubble of 9-11 so obviously he can see the glass in the car :pac:

    That I could see it was reflection of some sort and you guys couldn't that's true.

    Firemen body shape in the picture matches the odd things out in the picture. It odd camera/photo processing problem or some odd reflection occurring here.

    Fireman in red is holding something in his hand that matches the image between the pillars of steel.

    522363.png


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    #1561
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,402 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »
    That I could see it was reflection of some sort and you guys couldn't that's true.

    Firemen body shape in the picture matches the odd things out in the picture. It odd camera/photo processing problem or some odd reflection occurring here.

    Fireman in red is holding something in his hand that matches the image between the pillars of steel.

    522363.png

    Yeahhhhh we did that to death in the relevant thread, if you want to go down that rabbit hole again then post it in that thread instead of derailing this one.


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