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crossing livestock on a regional road

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  • 13-09-2017 1:55pm
    #1
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭


    hi folks i have priced a cattle underpass to cross the cows 60,0000 euro so i wrote to santa and three years later still no underpass help is getting scarcer can i close the road with gates with a stop sign and reflector tape on the bars and then go in to passsage to shove the cows on


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    #2
    Floki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Floki


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    hi folks i have priced a cattle underpass to cross the cows 60,0000 euro so i wrote to santa and three years later still no underpass help is getting scarcer can i close the road with gates with a stop sign and reflector tape on the bars and then go in to passsage to shove the cows on

    Ask the local council engineer but in my own opinion I very much doubt it.

    Edit: actually the way this country works.
    Talk to your councillor or Td first.


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    #3
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    hi folks i have priced a cattle underpass to cross the cows 60,0000 euro so i wrote to santa and three years later still no underpass help is getting scarcer can i close the road with gates with a stop sign and reflector tape on the bars and then go in to passsage to shove the cows on
    There's talk of underpasses being included in TAMS in the near future so I would be inclined to wait for some news on that front.

    I stand to be corrected but I don't think it is allowed to open gates across any road even with reflectors and stop signs on it. I imagine you would be liable for any damage caused to cars damaged by hitting the gate or swerving to avoid it.


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    #4
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    If an underpass becomes eligible under tams will it have any cost advantage by the time all the extra t andcs are met and of course the builders will hike their bill too


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    #5
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    Floki wrote: »
    Ask the local council engineer but in my own opinion I very much doubt it.

    Edit: actually the way this country works.
    Talk to your councillor or Td first.

    Back to looking for permission instead of forgiveness.

    I suggest 2 large holding pens both side of road in your own land. Have cattle ready to move

    Then open your 4 gates over. A set of temp traffic lights would be the job and a few signs.

    And put up a sign that says "thank you motorist for taking 2 minutes to allow me cross the animals safely".


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    #6
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    Thanks lakill, I like the way your thinking and a bit of manners as they say will get you a long way(30 feet across the road would do)


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    #7
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    I wouldn't go putting anything stationary on the road (gates or cones etc). I would think it would be totally illegal to do so and if somebody crashed into them I'd be pretty sure you wouldnt be covered with your farm insurance!!

    Two insured vehicles with strobes/flashers/signage parked perhaps 50m from each side would perhaps be a practical suggestion.

    But long-term, best to be proactive and organise a meeting with local engineer from council. You need to get a name and be persistent in emailing and ringing them until it happens. As floki has said u may have to approach your local councillor first as they are present at a lot of meetings with these council members and could put a word in for you (stupid but this is how Ireland works!)

    When u eventually get a meeti g on the ground, show them how dangerous the road is and the predicament you are in with trying to get your cows across safely and see what they suggest.


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    #8
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    Two gates are already opposite, my thoughts was to replace both of those to two double fifteen foots and instead of them opening in, open them out and meet on the white line. From our point of veiw it can't be more dangerous than a car running into us or the cows. Even if its only a short term measure


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    #9
    jimini0
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭jimini0


    I help a friend here now and then to cross his cattle a national road n59. He always gets someone to help both wearing hi vis vests or jackets. He has a holding pen either side of the road. I park one side of crossing he parks the other side with hazards on . He pulls 2 lengths of electric fence tape across the road. Open gates and move cows across. All done in 2 mins or less.
    I know you mention that help in scarce but it's important to have 2 people for safety reasons. 4 eyes are better than 2.


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    #10
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,843 ✭✭✭mf240


    We have to cross the road here too. For some of the grazing.

    We only graze them across the road during the day so at least your only crossing twice and not very early or late.

    I find if you strip graze the fields across the road then the cows will move a bit faster as they know there getting fresh grass.

    I haven't done it but if you rang your farm insurance company would they advise on best pratice/what's covered ect.


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    #11
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    We have two on the road at the moment and one driving them out. And he's going to be 88 in two weeks. So he says he might take things easier next year


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    #12
    charolais0153
    Registered Users Posts: 6,225 ✭✭✭charolais0153


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    We have two on the road at the moment and one driving them out. And he's going to be 88 in two weeks. So he says he might take things easier next year

    Maybe get a dog


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    #13
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    We have two on the road at the moment and one driving them out. And he's going to be 88 in two weeks. So he says he might take things easier next year

    And your only thinking of this now?!

    65 is pension age.... there's even talks at present of increasing to 70 in a few years....... but 88?

    Firefighting now with 2 gates ain't going to cut it if u want to hold onto your farm and carry on milking


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    #14
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    Muckit wrote: »
    And your only thinking of this now?!

    65 is pension age.... there's even talks at present of increasing to 70 in a few years....... but 88?

    Firefighting now with 2 gates ain't going to cut it if u want to hold onto your farm and carry on milking

    And what would you suggest


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    #15
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    We cross the road for ten days in april then close it for silage then graze again for the first ten days in September and then one last round Oct


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    #16
    Muckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Muckit


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    And what



    would you suggest

    I gave my suggestions in my first post.

    I'm not being smart but you will find yourself in deep waters if your farm Insurance does not cover your activities. A personal injury claim could potentially put you out of business. An underpass would seem like pocket money then and a no brainer..

    At present you are fully covered because you are in charge of your animals while on the road and controlling/alerting traffic either side. But anything outside of having a person each side flagging down traffic l would think is dodgeville territory. It would be well worth your while ringing your insurance company and going over this with them.


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    #17
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    We cross the road for ten days in april then close it for silage then graze again for the first ten days in September and then one last round Oct

    I see a large farmer near Longford moving 150 plus cows over and back a national road 4 times a day on his own.

    Road is wide as foot path both sides.

    30ft road. 2 chains. 4 x 15ft or maybe 2x15ft and 2x16fts.

    Put up lights and warning signs. Only put the signs up the week your moving them and out times on them. Motorists will understand. And bet after time an odd parent and child will be standing at the gate look g at the cows. We did it as kids at the train level crossing.


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    #18
    larthehar
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭larthehar


    http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Agriculture_and_Forestry/Safe_Handling_of_Cattle_on_Farms.pdf
    Go to page 26.. all details there.


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    #19
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    We cross the road for ten days in april then close it for silage then graze again for the first ten days in September and then one last round Oct

    Doesn't really matter even if it's only one day in the year, you still have time to wreck someones life,
    We used to always drive cattle on the road in the seventies but things have moved on, best test is would you put your children walking to school on the raods that you're causing a hazard on......as far as I can see no children walk to school on country roads.
    A s someone else said here a sign stuck up all the time is a joke, whatever warning you use, only useit while the hazard is going on


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    #20
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    rangler1 wrote: »
    Doesn't really matter even if it's only one day in the year, you still have time to wreck someones life,
    We used to always drive cattle on the road in the seventies but things have moved on, best test is would you put your children walking to school on the raods that you're causing a hazard on......as far as I can see no children walk to school on country roads.
    A s someone else said here a sign stuck up all the time is a joke, whatever warning you use, only useit while the hazard is going on

    We literally cross the road its not our fault the road goes through our farm the road is an 80km speed limit which no takes notice of either its a bit harsh throwing the blame on us rangler


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    #21
    rangler1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,497 ✭✭✭rangler1


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    We literally cross the road its not our fault the road goes through our farm the road is an 80km speed limit which no takes notice of either its a bit harsh throwing the blame on us rangler

    Just for a test I reiterated what everyone else was saying and you jump at me,
    surprise surprise, it was highly suspiscious so quick after the last thread and you've just confirmed what I thought.
    It's not as if I'm the only one showing concern for the safety of motorists on this thread,

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056427721


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    #22
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    Rangler did you put in an underpass


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    #23
    lakill Farm
    Registered Users Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭lakill Farm


    Gurteen college in the nenagh /birr college seem to cross cows still and that's a busy road.


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    #24
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    When did the ban on livestock crossing a road come into place whats next slow tractors farmers walking on or in veiw of a public road. Where will it all end


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    #25
    Floki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭Floki


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    When did the ban on livestock crossing a road come into place whats next slow tractors farmers walking on or in veiw of a public road. Where will it all end

    Cyclists are next.
    Banning cyclists on the road is next.

    Power, influence and superiority (or perceived superiority, it's a lovely irish trait) that's what influences decisions in this country.

    Cyclists won't be banned by the way.
    Dangerous drivers will.


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    #26
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    When did the ban on livestock crossing a road come into place whats next slow tractors farmers walking on or in veiw of a public road. Where will it all end

    Matt
    Seeing as you must cross the road maybe you know the legality of it, my neighbour walks cows to the parlour along a regional road, they travel approx 04-0.5km each way, twice a day..he owns all the land on both sides of the road but hasn't built a walkway so he brings them along the road, he waits behind them. Neighbours get held up for 5-10 mins each time, there is no alternative road, Is this legal ?? Thanks.


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    #27
    arctictree
    Registered Users Posts: 4,284 ✭✭✭arctictree


    mattthetrasher wrote: »
    hi folks i have priced a cattle underpass to cross the cows 60,0000 euro so i wrote to santa and three years later still no underpass help is getting scarcer can i close the road with gates with a stop sign and reflector tape on the bars and then go in to passsage to shove the cows on

    Whats with the inflation on this? I seem to remember these being costed at about 30K 4 or 5 years ago on the IFJ?


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    #28
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    solerina wrote: »
    Matt
    Seeing as you must cross the road maybe you know the legality of it, my neighbour walks cows to the parlour along a regional road, they travel approx 04-0.5km each way, twice a day..he owns all the land on both sides of the road but hasn't built a walkway so he brings them along the road, he waits behind them. Neighbours get held up for 5-10 mins each time, there is no alternative road, Is this legal ?? Thanks.
    yes its legal a guard a fireman and a person in charge of animals on the road have the right to stop traffic


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    #29
    mattthetrasher
    Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭mattthetrasher


    arctictree wrote: »
    Whats with the inflation on this? I seem to remember these being costed at about 30K 4 or 5 years ago on the IFJ?

    I don't know, maybe under a more minor road our underpass quote was under both hedges so 14 meters with headwalls and wingwalls and a sump the spec of these are probably higher now than 5 years ago also.


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    #30
    einn32
    Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭einn32


    If you had a lot of advanced warning before where the gates will be across the road and straight sections of road either side. You would need a few signs going way back the road on either side. And a warning system which only activates when the gates are closed. I know a local guy who closes a road when he crosses the cows but it's a quiet back road.


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    #31
    larthehar
    Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭larthehar


    There are two situations that may arise; moving cattle along a road to another field or crossing
    the road. The risks depend on the experience of the stockman and any helper, the experience of
    the cattle in knowing the route, the road layout, the amount and speed of traffic and the time
    of day.
    There is always a legal duty to warn motorists of the impending risk of cattle on the road. This can
    be done by signs, with or without hazard beacons or by persons standing well back with a flag to
    wave the motorists down. If the road is a busy high-speed highway then all cattle movements
    must be well planned and controlled with sufficient people available to help. In this instance
    warning signs must be placed about 150m back from the crossing or entry/exit point.


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